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Old 12-13-2012, 08:20 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Crate Training Frustrations...

Crate training seems to be a common frustration on here I've noticed. Here's the situation...

Talia is a few days past 13 weeks right now. She is a great puppy in all aspects except her crate. House training has been a breeze. For the most part she listens really well and is taking well to obedience training. She comes to work with me every day and is very well behaved in my office. When it comes to her crate she becomes a little monster.

Her crate was originally in our bedroom for about the first week and a half of having her. We eventually had to move it across the house as we were getting absolutely no sleep at night. She howls intermittently throughout the night. At first it was a constant thing. She slowly got better and would settle down and sleep after about 20 minutes of barking and whining. Only to start back up if she woke up for any reason what so ever. When we moved her across the house we set a timer for every 2 hours to make sure she could get out and potty when she needed to. Even with doing this she is peeing in her crate every night as well as the incessant barking.

She had severe diarrhea one night and I did not want to wake up to a room covered in dog poop, so we kept her in the bed with us so we would wake up if she had to go potty. She slept the whole night through! She didn't get up once. She didn't have an accident in the house. We went to bed at about 11 and got up at 7. She went right outside, went potty (which was more water poop) and was happy as a clam.

Now every time we have to leave her in her crate for more than about an hour she will pee. I know it is not a matter of her not being able to hold it. She is always taken out to go potty before being put in here crate and she has shown at work and at the house that she will hold it for longer than an hour.

I'm not sure how to break her of this habit she is forming. She had a dog bed in her crate which we have removed and she now only gets a single blanket because I feel terrible not giving her anything, but I'm wondering if that's the next step.

And how long before she will quite barking and whining with every sound. I'm uncertain of how to make her understand that her crate is a positive place. We put treats in there throughout the day for her to find. I've fed her in the crate with the door open. We've tried stuffed animals, ticking clocks, shirts with our smell on them, leaving the tv on for her.... nothing seems to work.

I have a terrible feeling that you are all going to tell me that we just have to wait it out.

Thanks in advance for the input.

Oh, and of course, I'll close with a puppy picture.

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Old 12-13-2012, 08:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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My boy was TERRIBLE in every sense of the meaning regarding crating him when he was brought home. He never soiled the crate, but would scream as if you were murdering him every time you would place him in his crate either for before leaving for work or bed time. He had plenty of blankets to keep him warm, and a toy or two to chew on/snuggle with.

I live at home and his crate is in my room. I can't tell you ho many times my family came upstairs at 4 in the morning to let me know that they had had it, and to ask what was going on to make him scream all night long.

This lasted about 2-3 weeks, getting shorter as the days went on. After so long of this screaming through the night, I (being driven nuts all night trying to get some decent sleep before work) would wake up around 5ish, bring him out for potty and then place him in bed with me...

He still had to be crated when I was out of the house.

I learned that bringing him for long hikes and out during the daytime started to calm him down as he was way to tired to fight sleeping when placed in his crate. Also, propping the crate door open and throwing favored treats inside helped a lot. It teaches them the crate is theirs and it isn't the end of the world... and that they WILL be freed the minute you come home!

Unfortunately, I would say it is a "stick it out" situation... maybe others will have better ideas and more input!

Good Luck!
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I am only watching your thread to learn...but how could that guy do anything wrong you surely must be mistaken!
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:54 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I make sure puppy is tired, then crate with a toy and/or chewy at first for entertainment. Put a radio on in the room for some noise for the pup. Cover the crate if a wire crate for a den effect.

I don't tolerate screaming for too long.

A very loud "QUIET" works like a charm here. Usually only takes one time and my puppies are startled into silence, then go right to sleep! With 4 Dobermans here, they all have to be behind gates or in a crate at some point and I can't stand a house full of screaming dogs. My house has 2 dogs on the main floor and 2 dogs upstairs lounging, but 3 of them are crated every night to sleep. It probably helps here that a new puppy is crated next to an older, quiet dog.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:01 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinstar View Post
Crate training seems to be a common frustration on here I've noticed. Here's the situation.........Talia is a few days past 13 weeks right now..........
She had severe diarrhea one night and I did not want to wake up to a room covered in dog poop, so we kept her in the bed with us so we would wake up if she had to go potty. She slept the whole night through! She didn't get up once. She didn't have an accident in the house. We went to bed at about 11 and got up at 7. She went right outside, went potty (which was more water poop) and was happy as a clam.
First Talia is adorable, thks for posting the photo.

I also have a 13 week old baby girl right now and she sleeps in our bed, since day1...just an angel all covered up between Mom & Dad...& no accidents.
With our last dobe a dozen years ago, this 2nd pup would also pee in the crate (no where else, once potty trained...just so mad being in there) and unlocked the crate once to get out...toys and marrow bones would be ignored completely...we even feared her breaking a tooth, on the crate wire.
At 4.5 months old, she could be trusted free range in the house, when we went to work, and she was happy to rest on the couch or leather chair, till we came back 4 hours later from work or our son came back from highschool.

Current puppy #3, and the crate wasn't even set up, no baby gates or play pen either.
Hats off to those that have dobes that love their crate, mine never do and thats OK with me.
- but kind of rules out crated at Vets much, ever in vehicle or ever go to a kennel
Our Kelly even gets close to car sick, until someone holds her...than she is fine...these smart little babies, sure have a way of telling us "their wants".
- I don't mind giving my pups many previlages, when I see good results...they get a spoiled life, when house manners are communicated & achieved
(sort of a "puppy cause & effect" training relationship...and I like the way it seems to work out, quick enough - I don't like to hear my dogs, stressed out)
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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First Talia is adorable, thks for posting the photo.

I also have a 13 week old baby girl right now and she sleeps in our bed, since day1...just an angel all covered up between Mom & Dad...& no accidents.
With our last dobe a dozen years ago, this 2nd pup would also pee in the crate (no where else, once potty trained...just so mad being in there) and unlocked the crate once to get out...toys and marrow bones would be ignored completely...we even feared her breaking a tooth, on the crate wire.
At 4.5 months old, she could be trusted free range in the house, when we went to work, and she was happy to rest on the couch or leather chair, till we came back 4 hours later from work or our son came back from highschool.

Current puppy #3, and the crate wasn't even set up, no baby gates or play pen either.
Hats off to those that have dobes that love their crate, mine never do and thats OK with me.
- but kind of rules out crated at Vets much, ever in vehicle or ever go to a kennel
Our Kelly even gets close to car sick, until someone holds her...than she is fine...these smart little babies, sure have a way of telling us "their wants".
- I don't mind giving my pups many previlages, when I see good results...they get a spoiled life, when house manners are communicated & achieved
(sort of a "puppy cause & effect" training relationship...and I like the way it seems to work out, quick enough - I don't like to hear my dogs, stressed out)
Kelly is Talia's sister! Tali also got car sick in the beginning unless held, but she has adjusted to being in her hammock in the back seat of my truck quite well.

Eventually the plan is that she will sleep wherever she wants, but I really want her to be ok with being crated if needed. You never know what circumstances life will bring our way and when we may need to have her confined for one reason or another. Your second pup sounds exactly like Talia. She will enter the crate on her own, but then throws a fit. Perhaps peeing is her protest.

Each night I have a have a harder time remember why we are dealing with the crate. Oh puppies...
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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My boy was TERRIBLE in every sense of the meaning regarding crating him when he was brought home. He never soiled the crate, but would scream as if you were murdering him every time you would place him in his crate either for before leaving for work or bed time. He had plenty of blankets to keep him warm, and a toy or two to chew on/snuggle with.

I live at home and his crate is in my room. I can't tell you ho many times my family came upstairs at 4 in the morning to let me know that they had had it, and to ask what was going on to make him scream all night long.

This lasted about 2-3 weeks, getting shorter as the days went on. After so long of this screaming through the night, I (being driven nuts all night trying to get some decent sleep before work) would wake up around 5ish, bring him out for potty and then place him in bed with me...

He still had to be crated when I was out of the house.

I learned that bringing him for long hikes and out during the daytime started to calm him down as he was way to tired to fight sleeping when placed in his crate. Also, propping the crate door open and throwing favored treats inside helped a lot. It teaches them the crate is theirs and it isn't the end of the world... and that they WILL be freed the minute you come home!

Unfortunately, I would say it is a "stick it out" situation... maybe others will have better ideas and more input!

Good Luck!
So, how long did this last for you? We've had her about 3 weeks and have been pretty consistent with the crate. She still screams, bites the bars, digs at the plastic (all of which she's doing as I write this). We are ok with having her sleep with us, but she spends so much time with me already I'm worried about her developing seperation anxiety if she is with me 24/7 and never left on her own.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Rou has some separation anxiety issues, but I relate it to the breed- Velcro dogs.

it gradually got less and less, but I would let him into bed after "good behavior" at about 5 am. Rou isn't with me 24/7 while I am at work of course, but what time I do have outside of working is dedicated to him

I'm not sure if I actually aid or make things worse.
I just ignore it until he calms down and chews on a toy..

To answer your question, the worst of it lasted 2-3 weeks while he was being vaccinated during his puppy series). After that it was play, hikes, walks (all short of course! for a pup)

There is hope!

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Old 12-13-2012, 11:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinstar View Post
Crate training seems to be a common frustration on here

I'm not sure how to break her of this habit she is forming. She had a dog bed in her crate which we have removed and she now only gets a single blanket because I feel terrible not giving her anything, but I'm wondering if that's the next step.
Make the crate interior smaller using a safe divider. Give her enuf room to get up and reposition herself. Leave the blanket in. If she gets smart and corners it to piss on it.., then remove the blanket until she learns not to urinate in there and then she gets the blanket back.
Teach her the quiet command.
Put the crate back in your bedroom and deal with it. generally all Dobes ive had love being with us and especially sleep time cuz theirs safety in numbers.
My first dobe i had went into a tirade one night barking and whining inside the crate and instead of flipping my lid, i quietly got up, dressed, put the leash on the bugger and we went on a forced march till he was tired keeping up with my pace. He slept like a baby and didnt like his 3am cold excursion. I didnt either but it was effective.
Dobes given an inch will take a yard, and they are far from stupid so given a choice of a himan bed and a cold crate hmmm? So unless u plan on them sleeping in your bed all time I would discourage it when they are not comfortable with the crate.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Crate training is invaluable.

Your dog may need to be in hospital, or be boarded for an emergency. It is also a safe way to travel in a vehicle.

The crate should however be a good place, a comfy place, a warm place and close to you.

Dobes love crates, they put themselves to bed, lol....

eta: my first rescue was left for days on end and had severe anxiety issues. In that case, I didn't pursue crate training.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:17 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Maybe try a different style of crate? Some dogs like the hard plastic crates better. You could also get Susan Garrett's "Crate Games" and use those techniques. I've heard great things about it.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
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My first dobe i had went into a tirade one night barking and whining inside the crate and instead of flipping my lid, i quietly got up, dressed, put the leash on the bugger and we went on a forced march till he was tired keeping up with my pace. He slept like a baby and didnt like his 3am cold excursion. I didnt either but it was effective.

I have not tried this but I'm willing to give it a go. I'll talk to the DH about putting her crate back in our bedroom as well.

Thanks for the advice.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:58 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Maybe try a different style of crate? Some dogs like the hard plastic crates better. You could also get Susan Garrett's "Crate Games" and use those techniques. I've heard great things about it.
Is there any reason for this? She's in a wire crate that we cover with a blanket and have a divider in. I will also look into Crate Games. I'll do anything to make her more comfortable.

Thanks!
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:34 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Hi why not try a baby pen.
It's what I'm using for my older girl who's just had major surgery. She hate crates but has taken to the pen fantastically.

Attachment 19617

I never crated my male Dobie we made a pen out of MDF. He went it there when we were out but slept in a basket at the side of our bed. We just barricaded him in so he couldn't wander.
I would use the pen now though plus it can extend to section off wider areas

Attachment 19618

I've never had trouble getting any of mine into crates in the car, and so far all have been excellent at the vets.



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Old 12-14-2012, 10:06 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeadowCat View Post
Maybe try a different style of crate? Some dogs like the hardnever stic crates better. You could also get Susan Garrett's "Crate Games" and use those techniques. I've heard great things about it.
^^^^
Like she says. I think the wire crates are too cold and not as sound proof. You really want create a cave like feel. when Nubis was a pup getting use to the crate our bedroom is always dark and now he will position cushions on the couch so he can put his head under it so it is dark. Fortunately he doesnt use his crate now but i know he can use one if he has too if needed. As someone else mentioned it is a very useful tool and something they should be accepting of because in an emergency if you had to use one. You will eliminate anxiety and them hurting themselves because they don't like the caged up effect.
When i was a teen and my grandmother died i had to gift her Pekinese to her sister and never forgot the poor dog yelping/thrashing etc when put in a crate so she could be transported. They had to heavily sedate her or I swear she would have died of shock.
After that incident I never wanted another to see another dog of mine go thru that.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:22 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I agree that crate trainning is an invaluable tool. In an emergency, or a vet stay due to surgery etc I would not want the extra stress of a dog going ballistic because it has never been crated. Enough stress staying at the vet to start with, and in some cases it is an unavoidable reality.

Letting your dog sleep in the bed is fine and good but you set your dog up for failure and a lot of anxiety of they are never able to be apart from you in an xpen, crate, whatever. What if you the owner are hospitalized and the dog has to stay with someone else? If you choose to let the dog sleep in the bed, that's perfectly okay- but said dog should be okay to be separated and settle into sleep without you and your bed. For a puppy, a crate or dog safe area is the logical choice.
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