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Old 12-09-2012, 07:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation Stubborn doberman and leash training

Hi. I have a 14 week old female doberman that I am trying to leash train. I have only had her for a little over a week, so I'm not expecting her to take to it right away. I have read quite a bit on the various methods for leash training and I have tried to do what is suggested and have had some success, but not consistently. She will walk outside fairly well to potty and does her business quickly. It's after that I have the problem. She bites on her leash constantly and tugs. I have read where they say to ignore it and she will realize she is not going anywhere and then she would stop. Not my girl. She is content to just lay in the grass and chew. Someone suggested using a "bitter" spray and she wouldn't want to chew it. It didn't faze her. Someone suggested using a chain leash rather than a cloth one but that didn't work either. It's hard to get her to pay attention. I have been able to get her to walk some, but only when she wants to. She will stop in the middle of our walk and sit like a statue. I know the problems I am having are mostly what I am doing wrong and not her fault. She doesn't recognize me as the "pack" leader and therefore she is doing what she wants. She will also try to chew on everything in the house. I try and redirect her with the appropriate toy and that works for a bit, but then back to grabbing everything in reach. I correct her with a stern no, but she doesn't always listen. I know I have gotten off subject, but I wanted to give a clearer picture of just what she does. The one thing she has done superbly with is potty training. I am crate training and she has not had the first accident in her crate. She has not gone in the house for 5 days straight now, so I know she can learn. Any help I can get will be greatly appreciated.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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try walking her around in the house with the leash

are you letting her play before you take her for walks?
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I know the problems I am having are mostly what I am doing wrong and not her fault. She doesn't recognize me as the "pack" leader and therefore she is doing what she wants.
Dominance and Pack theory is kind of old school. That being said, I think that the problems you are having are because she is a baby and you've only had her for a week. Give it some time. And give the different methods some time. If you've only had her a week yet tried a bunch of methods than you can't have been giving any method much of a chance. You need persistence in training.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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try walking her around in the house with the leash

are you letting her play before you take her for walks?
I have tried walking her in the house, but I think she is too distracted with the two cats I have. I haven't tried playing first, but will definitely give that a try.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Dominance and Pack theory is kind of old school. That being said, I think that the problems you are having are because she is a baby and you've only had her for a week. Give it some time. And give the different methods some time. If you've only had her a week yet tried a bunch of methods than you can't have been giving any method much of a chance. You need persistence in training.
Thanks for the info. I guess I am worrying too much that I'm not doing what I should. You are so right that she is just a baby and I can't expect instant success. I was just afraid of getting into a bad pattern and then having trouble later as she gets much bigger.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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before trying anything try to bond with ur pup

do alot of focusing exercise with yummy treats
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:24 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedobie View Post
I have tried walking her in the house, but I think she is too distracted with the two cats I have. I haven't tried playing first, but will definitely give that a try.
lock the cats in a room while you're attempting to train her.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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thanks for wanting to train your pup. Be patient with her, she is a baby. You could check out some of kikopup methods on youtube, and as far as the leash thing, give her something else to carry instead of the leash (but it must be somethign that is more fun).
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky14 View Post
before trying anything try to bond with ur pup

do alot of focusing exercise with yummy treats
^^^^ +1 exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaumont67 View Post
If your dobe is 4 y/o already and it does not respect you yet, IMO the training needs to restart at the very beginning, like it was a puppy first.
- because the true BOND with the desire to please, is missing

So 3 things I concentrate on with each dog of mine, every day early on...inside the house (controlled space 1st):
a) fetch tennis ball - a command most dogs take to like a duck to water, so practice often, in a playful exercise
b) tug of war, dog always wins toy / can add a flirt pole toy, outside practice
c) soft bite, muzzle control - generates a measure of trust

^^^^ Now you become much fun, and looked up to, as a leader of the pack...finally.
Inside work is done before the outside distractions, that can muddy up the waters, some...are introduced.

Treat training or play training becomes the positive motivation, while the latter is what I use most.
- your voice pitch / perfect timing / projected body language can also become your best friend & most powerfull tool...so understand how key these things are, while often overlooked by many inexperienced dog owners, with common training problems
^^^^ Just a cut & paste from another thread today, puppy period or adult, training is training...build on steping stones of success & desire to please.
- the formula or early leg work, is still most relevant in training
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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...and the reason you want to bond, and to play tug and fetch, are so that you are the most interesting thing in your pup's environment when you are working with her. Heavily reward her for turning her attention to you in preference to other things in her environment.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:15 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Please forget about " She doesn't recognize me as the "pack" leader and therefore she is doing what she wants " She is a baby she does not know what she wants she does not know what you want either. Make training fun only about 5-10 minutes in the am & pm for training use treats you can phase them out slowly over time when she learns the command.Since she does not have a clue to language takes awhile for them to learn what you want them to do. Training is a life long process using many training methods in my opinion it is best to find an obedience class that you both go together learn together. Also incorporate tricks in along with the obedience makes it fun for you both.Good Luck with your new baby & welcome to DT.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:41 AM   #13 (permalink)
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you have to remove distractions and be patient and repetitive, very repetitive.

I use a very short lead for Caes. have you tried as soon as the dog pulls stopping and calling her to your side? thats what i do with Caes, he soon realised it would take him 30 mins instead of 10 too get to the park if he tries to get there faster

I dont drag him around i simply stop dead and call him too me, he isnt more than a 0.5m ahead of me on the lead anyway so he doesnt get far, now he just walks with me or if i stop he comes back too my side without call, he is actually better behaved off the lead altogether.

Also few people commented on tug games for bonding, this is great but make sure you dont allow too much resistence when tugging while young as it can effect the teeth, while she is still young even if the adult teeth are through they wont be "set" fully (this might sound obvious but a lot of people dont think of it)

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Old 12-10-2012, 05:12 AM   #14 (permalink)
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At this age and having her only a week, you should be working on bonding. Most pups will want to follow you after they have bonded. Even puppies want to be right there with you.

We never pull or correct a puppy on lead at this age. The training we do at that age is housetraining, no biting, and learning to bond with us. Don't give the puppy too much or she'll shut down. She may not be stubborn but just doesn't know you yet. Trust is everything with this breed.

We use the rope leads that look like horse leads but are for dogs......it fits easily over their ears and is what we use to lead train. We don't do that until the puppy is wanting to follow us. We use only REWARDS of treats at this point and age and make it only fun.

Rushing a puppy isn't good so slow down. One thing at a time.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:54 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I agree with everyone that's been said because I've been there and done that.

She's a baby, stay patient. Sometimes our doberpups are a lot smarter than we realize, which makes it difficult to train sometimes. They make you laugh when you should be serious, or you give in because they are so stubborn. Just keep doing what you are doing, it sounds like you're doing most everything right.

Watch kikopup videos on youtube to gain some insight and encouragement. I am doing this myself as well. It really helps to see what you may or may not be doing correctly during training. Kikopup also utilizes positive training methods, which makes training a fun thing to do together. Just try to keep training sessions short, like 10 - 15 minutes, a few times a day.

Forget about the pack leader thing, it really is stupid. When we first brought our pup home, the hubby was all about, "I'm leader," which resorted to a lot of arguments. If you ask him now about it, he'll tell you it's stupid and isn't necessary. By loving your pup, caring for her, bonding with her...she'll realize on her own that you are the human she wants to protect and love back.

Don't be discouraged, we've all been there and for some (like me), are still working on it with our fur-children as well.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:11 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Wow this thread helped me a lot. We just picked up our 9 week Doberman pup this weekend and have been having a blast bonding with him. But it hasn't come without a few frustrating moments. In fact we've also struggled with the leash tug-o-war and we're not always as successful getting him to agree to hop in his crate.

The biggest struggle is getting him to run outside on his own when it's cold and when the grass it wet. I've tried luring him with a treat but he's grown leary of this. Should I just pick him up and place him outside if he doesn't come after a few tries? During the day when it's warmer he runs out the door no problem.

Anyhow lots of good tips here we'll start trying today.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:49 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton-Caesar View Post
...be patient and repetitive, very repetitive...
OP, actually Dobermans do not respond well to repetitive drilling or lots of repetitions of the same exercise.

They are whip smart, sensitive, and bore easily.

Keep it light, keep it fun, keep it short, and mix it up constantly.

Those books I listed are some of the best training advice and general puppy raising advice you'll ever find, and none of them is expensive.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:15 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonJohn View Post
Wow this thread helped me a lot. We just picked up our 9 week Doberman pup this weekend and have been having a blast bonding with him. But it hasn't come without a few frustrating moments. In fact we've also struggled with the leash tug-o-war and we're not always as successful getting him to agree to hop in his crate.

The biggest struggle is getting him to run outside on his own when it's cold and when the grass it wet. I've tried luring him with a treat but he's grown leary of this. Should I just pick him up and place him outside if he doesn't come after a few tries? During the day when it's warmer he runs out the door no problem.

Anyhow lots of good tips here we'll start trying today.

^^^^ Sorry, I have never played Tug-of-War with a leash on...try freehand, never knew there was another way.
And my dobe pup is never outside, without me...either - warm / hot / cold / wet.

My 12 week old puppy, still gets carried outside to lawn and potty area.
She doesn't go ouside without me (ever)....all off-leash, 99.5% of the time...training & bonding, from day1.
- either we learn to love & motivate & invest quality time in a pups early development...or maturing years, becomes a most taxing exercise:
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:14 PM   #19 (permalink)
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We "beep" trained Apollo around 13 weeks. He wore a flat collar and an E collar but it was only beeped, we never once shocked him. If he started to act up he was beeped made to lay down until he was calm and we continued what we were doing. Sometimes a 1/4 mile walk took an hour but he learned very quick. You can also try a easy walk harness, which I loved.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:39 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaumont67 View Post
^^^^ Sorry, I have never played Tug-of-War with a leash on...try freehand, never knew there was another way.
And my dobe pup is never outside, without me...either - warm / hot / cold / wet.

My 12 week old puppy, still gets carried outside to lawn and potty area.
She doesn't go ouside without me (ever)....all off-leash, 99.5% of the time...training & bonding, from day1.
- either we learn to love & motivate & invest quality time in a pups early development...or maturing years, becomes a most taxing exercise:

I'm happy to report his desire to play leash tug-of-war subsided pretty quickly after a few productive rounds of leash training. He's doing a LOT better walking with me around the back yard and not biting the leash.

The reason I try to keep him on the leash outside is to try to keep him focused and in one area of the yard in hopes that he'll go potty consistantly. I would never dare to drag him around or anything like that, if he doesn't want to move then I eventually just pick him up and bring him where he needs to be. But i'd much rather given him a solid couple of minutes of encouraging him to run outside on his own so when he gets bigger there is no expectation of me carrying him out there! We are very focused on giving him a positive and loving environment.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Thank you so much everyone for all the encouragement and helpful advice. I posted my leash training question right after a frustrating outing with my new girl. Just in the last 3 days since my post, she has improved a great deal. We have made it down to the end of my street and back many times with little incident. She will still stop in the middle of our walk and sit like a statue, looking at whatever has caught her eye, but I wait patiently and coax her back to me so we can continue. I never pull her and if I need to get her in the house so I can go to work, I will sometimes have to just pick her up and carry her in. She is getting better though and I don't have to carry her too often. Thank goodness for that as she had her vet visit and she has gained 4 lbs in 11 days. Soon she will be too big to carry! I am ridiculously in love with this girl! Thanks again everyone!
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:24 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Don't get discouraged. My breeder/trainer taught us how to loose leash walk. With lots of treats on hand give your pup the full length of your 6 ft leash all around and say Stay Close to your pup as you are walking. Treat as you are walking. Talk to your pup and try to always have their attention. My girl is 6 months now and it is a constant work in progress. Now when she pulls I stop and pull her back and as soon as the leash is loose I continue. I also will turn around as soon as she pulls. Basically the idea is to teach them that if she pulls she s not going where she wants to. When she's keeping a loose leash I say good girl and treat. My breeder said that its gonna take until she's a year old to really get it. Training to walk properly takes a looong time, but you need to be dedicated and consistent. Best of luck!!
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:27 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Oohh I forgot to mention that my girl gets into her leash biting/tugging wars too. She loves it and I let her do it. Often ill play tug with her leash, let her win and she takes off running around with the leash in her mouth happier than anything I've seen.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:00 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I am working on a book to document my leash training success.. I probably won't have it ready though in time to help you now...


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Old 12-12-2012, 07:13 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Play fetch etc get her a little tired so she is not full of piss and vinegar.
Put two leashes on her and let her play all she wants on the other one.
Break into a little (little) run so she wants to keep up with you andip and then lots of praise.
If all else fails and after a few tries pick her up and bring her right home ending HER playtime.
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