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Old 12-03-2012, 12:45 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Yes it does tell me something. This forum disagrees with how i handle situations. All i CAN do about it is contact the authorities in the morning letting them know all the pups need medical attention and one REALLY need medical attention for head trauma. Not much i can do. I have 2 seperate addresses for him so im not sure which he resides at. One address is linked to her papers and 1 address is linked to his phone number. i guess just give both.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:00 AM   #27 (permalink)
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That is absolutely NOT all you can do, but it's a start.

1. You can call the guy again and tell him you've reconsidered and want to...oh, I don't know, buy your grandma a puppy for Christmas. I'm sure he won't even bat an eyelash at that. Arrange the time and place to meet.

2. You can make arrangements with AC to be there when you meet this guy at the gas station with ALL of his available puppies. Have them hang back until you've been talking with the guy for a few minutes.

And take it from there.

You seem to be looking for the easy way out. Otherwise, you wouldn't have bought from a BYB. You would've taken your time researching, saved up for a quality puppy, bought from a reputable breeder, etc.

Now, perhaps unwittingly, you put yourself back in a position where you absolutely CAN do something good for these dogs. Not just the puppies, but the parents as well. It's not going to be easy, but it's worth it!

Honestly, I don't know how you can see what you saw TWICE and just walk away from it without having a reaction that just punches you in the gut! I couldn't live with myself if I didn't at least try as hard as I could to do something to make a difference somehow for some dogs in the world.

I couldn't, nor wouldn't, let it go until I did everything I could. And don't try to talk yourself out of it by rationalizing that you're just one person and you can't do much. You can turn a ripple into a wave. Just try.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:19 AM   #28 (permalink)
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You can turn a ripple into a wave. Just try.
I LOVE this saying! it's very inspirational!
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:46 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Guys, sorry, but I think the whole undercover/animal cops/AC rushes in to the rescue scenario is highly unrealistic.

Besides, kindafugly sees nothing wrong with giving money to greeder scum like this.

Sort of an unlikely candidate for undercover sting operations on puppy millers, dontcha think?

There's nothing we can realistically do about people like her, or the scum who produced those poor pups.

We can just send vibes for the innocent pups, try to educate, then move on.

The change happens slowly, on a local basis, case by case--and thru educating those who are open to listening and learning.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:09 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Id love for some of you to come to arkansas just for 1 week and see how things dont work the way they do in most states. No one here cares about animals.
Now see I find that insulting. I grew up in Arkansas and spent my formative years volunteering for the shelters nearby walking dogs and cleaning up kennel runs. I saw many many people that cared about animals that fought just the kind of **** you supported. Grant it, the south has been a little slower coming around to the idea that pets are more then something to live in the backyard as a lawn ornament or hunt with... but that was over a decade ago and things were already improving.

I also saw people work tirelessly with greyhound rescue and other breed rescues to help improve the general lot in life of some of these dogs.

Just because YOU will support crap like this doesn't mean everyone in Arkansas would. Don't paint a lot of good people with your brush tyvm.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:40 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Yes it does tell me something. This forum disagrees with how i handle situations. All i CAN do about it is contact the authorities in the morning letting them know all the pups need medical attention and one REALLY need medical attention for head trauma. Not much i can do. I have 2 seperate addresses for him so im not sure which he resides at. One address is linked to her papers and 1 address is linked to his phone number. i guess just give both.
You could have written down his license plate. I'm sure the police could have figured out where he lives
Good job giving him money so he can keep abusing dogs.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:52 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Question : How do you eat an elephant ?

Answer: In small bites

How the uk are tackling puppy farming. It's small steps but it will be banned in this country before long.

http://www.epupz.co.uk/puppyfarm.asp

http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/az/b/batteryfarmeddogs/

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-15622976

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/hopeuk/info.htm

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/5145


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Old 12-03-2012, 06:01 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Well to be honest i didnt expect them to be in that bad of shape. Like i said it was a last minute idea on the way back from taking my father up in that area. He saw them as well. Never once did it cross our minds to call the cops and clearly animal control wouldnt be open at 8pm. Its whatever though. My father said he is just a old farm breeder and thats how they do things (he is a old coon hunter) so his views differ too. Yes i wouldnt change the fact i bought these two puppies from him if i had it to do over. So bash me for it. Clearly my views differ from 95% of this forum. I can see how these guy would have ended up if i didnt take them. they would be just like those poor puppies he has now. All i can do is let animal control know the condition of the puppies he has currently since i SAW how bad they are. Beyond that it is out of my control.
Unlined.. Never once crossed your mind even tho you have met this disguisting excuse of a human before and now want a slideshow of his malnurished puppies...
Sick is what comes to my head first. Sick..
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:08 AM   #34 (permalink)
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RFR, you're absolutely right. Perhaps I've been watching too many suspense thrillers lately. I was giving our OP waaay too much credit. But if I were in her shoes (which I can promise will NEVER happen), I couldn't sleep at night after seeing what I'd seen and doing nothing about it. But, hey, that's me.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:39 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Thanks for insulting Arkansas.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:42 AM   #36 (permalink)
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So.... Did you contact the authorities this morning?!
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:15 AM   #37 (permalink)
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This person is a lost cause. Time to move on. They think that giving money to BYB continuously is helping some puppies, but it is HURTING MORE puppies to come and encouraging this d-bag to keep producing more puppies. I am over this person and no longer wasting my energy on ignorance, feel free to join me......
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:20 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Im sorry im entitled to my opinions about arkansas. I will be moving out of this state first chance i get. I cant comment about northern arkansas to much but down in southern arkansas its bad all the way around. not only for animals you see people beating on there kids in public. doing drugs deals. People walking down my street with loaded rifles (in town may i add). Just bad all the way around. Im actually getting ready to look up the number to call now. Was up late last nite and only been awake a hour then im off to a doctors appointment so probably wont be back on til tonite.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:36 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Gee, you're getting medical care today but the puppies who are in dire need asap aren't.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:44 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Id love for some of you to come to arkansas just for 1 week and see how things dont work the way they do in most states. No one here cares about animals.
Things work quite the same (if not worse) in Missouri, yet I (and many people I know) still manage to support good breeders and/or rescues.

The state of Missouri has 1,800 state and USDA licensed dog breeders which is explicitly defined as being a "commercial breeder which sells directly to the pet owner". This number does not include hobby or small breeders (which are also supposed to be registered by the state but not the USDA), whether they are good or bad. It also doesn't include intermediate handlers and brokers. Nor does it tell you anything about the number of shelters in this state or the number of animals that pass through shelters each year in Missouri.

That's a lot of puppies being produced in my state. It's estimated that brokers and dealers ship upwards of 100,000 puppies each year from the state of Missouri to other states mills, stores, and so on. Each. Year. From ONE state.

I can't possibly be convinced of any justification for buying a puppy from a breeder who directly contributes to the abuse, neglect, over population, and euthanizing of so many animals on a constant basis - both at home and across state lines. It's disgusting.

It's not only directly harmful to all the animals involved, it's also one of the laziest and careless ways to try and make a buck I've ever heard of in my life.

Animal abuse shouldn't be a rewarding career. But that's what everyone who buys from a BYB or mill makes it out to be. I'd be downright ashamed of myself if I contributed to that.

Born and raised in Missouri, BTW. I've been in this state a hell of a lot longer than the 5-years you've spent an hour south of me and I've managed to keep a rational head on my shoulders regarding breeding animals.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:57 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Well i cant talk about any other states but the state i was born and raised in wasnt like this at all. NEVER did i see unwanted animals there. If there was a stray there was a owner to claim him or her. Animals shelters werent over flowing. Yes there was puppy mills and byb but far and inbetween. Ive never see any state like this that just dont care. You can buy any purebred papers puppy or dog you want for 100.00 here because everyone breeds so many that 50% of them end up living on the streets cause there to many and not enough homes. My county animal control (no humane society) doesnt even offer adoptions after 3 days (yes 3 days) there put down. So if they end up there and there is no owners there fate is sealed they dont even have a chance to be put up for adoption. I did speak with the animal control officer and asked what if someone wanted to adopt a dog he said he would just give them away with no fee's applications or anything just so he dont have to put them down. My one vet does more for animals then this county does far as strays and rehoming. Its sad but its the truth.

I did call again and as i expected they kinda made me feel like i was nuts. They asked if i was to his home what type of home it was and i told them i wasnt to his home he met me at a gas station. they said did you actually see the puppies or did you just hear there this way. I told them i SEEN the puppies and they need vet care. They didnt take his name. Only his address and send they will send AC to take a look
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:58 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Yeah i like making up wild stories of animal abuse and neglect for i guess the fun of it since i clearly named the breeder and etc...
since you've shared no photos, nor have you actively done anything about it, yes...you come off as enjoying the attention. i would NOT be surprised if you're making this up to guarantee more attention.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:05 PM   #43 (permalink)
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since you've shared no photos, nor have you actively done anything about it, yes...you come off as enjoying the attention. i would NOT be surprised if you're making this up to guarantee more attention.
There have been photos of the two in his possession.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:13 PM   #44 (permalink)
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There have been photos of the two in his possession.
right, not the ones (s)he has opted to talk about in this thread.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:44 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Ok, Im just wanting attention. Thats it you caught me. I normally carry cameras in my car and im sure the breeder would allow someone to take photos of the puppies and not buy for the pure enjoyment that i admire his dogs.
Yes im being sarcastic. Being real now do puppy mills allow people to take pictures of there dogs and kennels? Do you carry cameras in your car at all times? I dont even OWN a camera just my cheap cell phone thats terrible for picture taking. Im sorry i didnt feel the need to pile heeps of photos of skinny mistreated puppies so everyone knows these puppies exist. Im sorry i wont travel 6 hour round trip out of my way for some under cover sting operation that AC wont even do to begin with. Ive did all i can do for those remaining puppies and there mothers and sire. If people feel more can be done ive already said who the breeder was. Feel free to do whatever more can be done because the truth is nothing more can be done then having AC investigate it and see for themselfs. There no way animal control (i wouldnt think) would give you details on there finding and what is being done anyways.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:44 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Well i cant talk about any other states but the state i was born and raised in wasnt like this at all. NEVER did i see unwanted animals there. If there was a stray there was a owner to claim him or her. Animals shelters werent over flowing. Yes there was puppy mills and byb but far and inbetween. Ive never see any state like this that just dont care. You can buy any purebred papers puppy or dog you want for 100.00 here because everyone breeds so many that 50% of them end up living on the streets cause there to many and not enough homes. My county animal control (no humane society) doesnt even offer adoptions after 3 days (yes 3 days) there put down. So if they end up there and there is no owners there fate is sealed they dont even have a chance to be put up for adoption. I did speak with the animal control officer and asked what if someone wanted to adopt a dog he said he would just give them away with no fee's applications or anything just so he dont have to put them down. My one vet does more for animals then this county does far as strays and rehoming. Its sad but its the truth.
You appear to be so appalled, yet don't feel motivated to make a change? This doesn't make sense...Every post you have about him paints him in a worse and worse light, yet then you go on to state that you would buy off him again.

Out of curiosity, because you know him better than us, how much do you suppose that he has invested into his litter? I'm talking money-wise. Assume that he invested $100. Realistically, based upon what you've told us, it sounds like it would be around there. Now suppose that you paid him $100 for the two puppies, which based on what you've said in the past, sounds about right if not more. So, I guess any puppy from that litter that he sells here after is profit. I guess you've just helped him pay for his litter and even helped to put a little money in his pockets. I don't understand why that is such a difficult concept to grasp.

I know that you've heard this all a hundred times before. Do you know why? Because we're all hoping that we say the one thing that you need to hear to understand and acknowledge that what you've done is wrong. But you haven't.

Sigghh, I'm so sorry that you aren't grasping this. It's frustrating for you and me alike, believe me.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:58 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Ok, Im just wanting attention. Thats it you caught me. I normally carry cameras in my car and im sure the breeder would allow someone to take photos of the puppies and not buy for the pure enjoyment that i admire his dogs.
Yes im being sarcastic. Being real now do puppy mills allow people to take pictures of there dogs and kennels? Do you carry cameras in your car at all times? I dont even OWN a camera just my cheap cell phone thats terrible for picture taking. Im sorry i didnt feel the need to pile heeps of photos of skinny mistreated puppies so everyone knows these puppies exist. Im sorry i wont travel 6 hour round trip out of my way for some under cover sting operation that AC wont even do to begin with. Ive did all i can do for those remaining puppies and there mothers and sire. If people feel more can be done ive already said who the breeder was. Feel free to do whatever more can be done because the truth is nothing more can be done then having AC investigate it and see for themselfs. There no way animal control (i wouldnt think) would give you details on there finding and what is being done anyways.
MOST cell phones have cameras, crappy or not! and there you just said it there...you HAVE a camera.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:36 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I get what your saying. I didnt say id BUY more puppies from him i said i would buy more puppies if i knew they were in risk of dieing if i did not to make THOSE puppies lifes better. Im sorry its just how i think. Its like a broken record here but helping a rescue the dogs in danger came first. Most of the rescues i know of purchased animals out of bad situations. So that is where im coming from because i seen the difference in the end that those dogs and puppy ended up loved and cared for. The humane society and rescues piled up a huge amount of money to buy over 400 puppy mill dogs a 5-6yrs ago. It was on the news. She agree'd to stop breeding if they bought her dogs. I doubt she did. I think as people are saying that gave her money for NEW breeding stock. They couldnt legally shut them down because they were USDA and followed all guidelines.

I get the point. yes i was shocked by the conditions of the puppies more so this second time around then the first. However i cant go take the dogs. Only person(s) that can make the call to do anything is AC which was notified again today. That is where im coming from and i guess some people dont see it in the light i see it. I cant steal the dogs. I cant force him to give the puppies and adults to me. I cant force someone to stop breeding.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:39 PM   #49 (permalink)
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On the subject of cost. Besides dog food (which he admitted his dobies are LEANER because he dont feed them as much as he should) he has no cost involved in the litter. $100 a puppy is pure profit. Not much IMO but still profit. He doesnt worm or give shots. Not even 12.00 kennel supply shots.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:48 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Im sorry im entitled to my opinions about arkansas. I will be moving out of this state first chance i get. I cant comment about northern arkansas to much but down in southern arkansas its bad all the way around. not only for animals you see people beating on there kids in public. doing drugs deals. People walking down my street with loaded rifles (in town may i add). Just bad all the way around. Im actually getting ready to look up the number to call now. Was up late last nite and only been awake a hour then im off to a doctors appointment so probably wont be back on til tonite.
I lived in Hot Springs for years. I lived in Royal and Pearcy both. There are a few good dog people there and even a kennel club who holds classes and promotes good dogs.
To lump all people into ur trash category is tacky.
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