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post #101 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:23 PM
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I wont even try to get into the amount of rediculousness it is for you to support such trash. But I will say, please think of the poor pittifull mama-dog that you are abusing. Yes you, and every other person that continues to purchase from her. All you are doing is prolonging her suffering and filling some a$$hole's pocket...... thanks.


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post #102 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:29 PM
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oh look, kindafugly's trying to justify buying two extremely underage puppies. again.

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post #103 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:35 PM
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Everyone needs to have some humor. I found my last couple post humorous. Back to seriousness. I just dont see how 1 or two people not purchasing a puppy will make any difference when someone else will gladly buy the pups and then the cycle continues. Its everywhere saying spay and neuter your pets that thousonds of pets die every year in shelters. It would take a idiot not to know that but yet they will go buy that cute puppy in the pet store. the cycle then again continues. I see the point that breeding will be done as long as people pay and buy puppies. Would reputable breeders breed if they had no homes for there puppies.. no they wouldnt. But theres always someone who is gunna want that puppy from any type of breeder there is to many people in the world to stop it. But im done on this thread now. Goodluck to raine and her new puppy and goodluck to all the educaters. I do recomend coming off a bit nicer to newcomers and explaining nicely why you feel that way. If they wont take your advice then nothing can be done. You cant force someone to do something you think they should because people are gunna do what they want too anyways.
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post #104 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:42 PM
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It has to start somewhere.
I guess it comes down to:

You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem. We know what side of the line you're on.
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post #105 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:45 PM
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If someone joins an online forum and begins introducing themselves, asking questions and trying to get info, they most likely want to learn something. Do you not see that? Like, who joins an online group and doesnt want to learn something?? Here, we learn from each other, from experiences, and we also want to help others. We actually care about the breed as a whole, not just one little puppy. We care about that puppy, that puppy's poor parents, its siblings, and ALLLLLLL the other dobermans that are mistreated, abused, orphaned, sheltered, and euthanized every single day because someone wasnt educated enough to not purchase that cute little puppy from someone who really doesnt care about it or the whole breed. They only care about themselves, and frankly, supporting a BYB after being educated is just as selfish......


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post #106 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vz-doberman View Post
it has to start somewhere.
I guess it comes down to:

You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem. we know what side of the line you're on.
thanks x10000

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post #107 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DobieGal15 View Post
If someone joins an online forum and begins introducing themselves, asking questions and trying to get info, they most likely want to learn something. Do you not see that? Like, who joins an online group and doesnt want to learn something?? Here, we learn from each other, from experiences, and we also want to help others. We actually care about the breed as a whole, not just one little puppy. We care about that puppy, that puppy's poor parents, its siblings, and ALLLLLLL the other dobermans that are mistreated, abused, orphaned, sheltered, and euthanized every single day because someone wasnt educated enough to not purchase that cute little puppy from someone who really doesnt care about it or the whole breed. They only care about themselves, and frankly, supporting a BYB after being educated is just as selfish......
Amen to that sister.
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post #108 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:51 PM
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I hate that answer.

"Because I don't see the point"

We've listed plenty of points. There are two greater alternatives to buying from a byb. Either rescue or buy from a reputable breeder. One by one, if people made that conscious decision, eventually byb's could cease to exist and we could be left with breeders who are breeding for the right purposes. But people these days won't do that because of what THEY want. They want it CHEAPER. They want it LARGER. They want different COLORS. People like you support a cause that all of us who are passionate about this breed are against: you support the side thats ruining this breed.


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post #109 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:59 PM
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I dont see how i support the byb or puppy mill side. I dislike people who do not care for there animals and even pet owners who think owning a dog is keeping it chained in the back yard and throwing food out to him or her once a day. Like i stated before i worked with a rescue and seem alot of bad things from people mistreating animals and alot of puppy mill dogs who were worthless. I came here because i thought this would be a great place to share stories and watch other dobies grow up including mine. I guess my only fault is seeing the condition and hearing about the conditions my guys were kepted in i wouldnt have changed my choice to get these two. But that is me hoping to make a difference in these guys futures. Just like you guys want to make a difference over all. So that is my fault. It is the girl inside of me that worked with a rescue that thinks she can save the dogs 1 at a time. But either way what is done is done. Hate me for buying these puppies or understand why i did it. Either way i wasnt a member of this forum until AFTER they were mine. Im just trying to put my 2 cents into things and how i look at things.
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post #110 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 10:02 PM
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Kepted is still not a word.
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post #111 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 10:04 PM
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I get what you're saying, but actually making a difference or "saving" dogs would not be PURCHASING them. If you still dont get it, there's not much else we can do to explain it clearer for you.


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post #112 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 10:07 PM
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There are other factors involved in saving puppies. Saving their mama would be the #1 if you were truly trying to make a difference. I think VZ doberman said it perfectly. Think of the big picture, in terms of the problem vs the solution.


Friendship is not about who you have known the longest... its about who came into your life, and never left your side.
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post #113 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kindafugly View Post
I dont see how i support the byb or puppy mill side. I dislike people who do not care for there animals and even pet owners who think owning a dog is keeping it chained in the back yard and throwing food out to him or her once a day. Like i stated before i worked with a rescue and seem alot of bad things from people mistreating animals and alot of puppy mill dogs who were worthless. I came here because i thought this would be a great place to share stories and watch other dobies grow up including mine. I guess my only fault is seeing the condition and hearing about the conditions my guys were kepted in i wouldnt have changed my choice to get these two. But that is me hoping to make a difference in these guys futures. Just like you guys want to make a difference over all. So that is my fault. It is the girl inside of me that worked with a rescue that thinks she can save the dogs 1 at a time. But either way what is done is done. Hate me for buying these puppies or understand why i did it. Either way i wasnt a member of this forum until AFTER they were mine. Im just trying to put my 2 cents into things and how i look at things.
How could you possibly have worked with any kind of ETHICAL rescue, and continue to support trashy greeders?

I'm with whoever it was who called BS on that one.

Then again, there sure are some shady/faux rescues out there with the ethics of a moronic yard snake, so maybe you got your "mentoring" from someone like that.

I do hate that you purchased those two puppies. That makes the job of real rescuers that much more difficult.

From your first posts here, it was evident that you had no qualms with supporting BYBs, millers, greeders, etc, as long as it suited your purposes.

You've prevaricated, danced around the issue, acted like a little attention ____ (rhymes with boar), and evaded the real problem, ever since you arrived here.

Whatever, I don't really care to chit-chat and share puppy pics and stories with someone who has such a lack of conscience.

Shame on you, for what you did to ALL the other dogs and puppies who go thru that greeder's version of hell.

Shame on you, especially, for saying you'd do it all over again.

Some folks choose not to learn.

And speaking of, not that your posts were ever credible, but yeah, "kepted," and "costed," are not really words, in case you care to take anything away from DT.

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post #114 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kindafugly View Post
I dont see how i support the byb or puppy mill side. I dislike people who do not care for there animals and even pet owners who think owning a dog is keeping it chained in the back yard and throwing food out to him or her once a day. Like i stated before i worked with a rescue and seem alot of bad things from people mistreating animals and alot of puppy mill dogs who were worthless. I came here because i thought this would be a great place to share stories and watch other dobies grow up including mine. I guess my only fault is seeing the condition and hearing about the conditions my guys were kepted in i wouldnt have changed my choice to get these two. But that is me hoping to make a difference in these guys futures. Just like you guys want to make a difference over all. So that is my fault. It is the girl inside of me that worked with a rescue that thinks she can save the dogs 1 at a time. But either way what is done is done. Hate me for buying these puppies or understand why i did it. Either way i wasnt a member of this forum until AFTER they were mine. Im just trying to put my 2 cents into things and how i look at things.
It's astounding that people still make excuses for financing a byb. If you truly did work for a rescue then that is one of their cornerstones ie never finance a byb. Get them to sign the animals over or wait until it starts to impact their bottom line and they turn them into a shelter.
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post #115 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman View Post
It's astounding that people still make excuses for financing a byb.
It's because she just "can't see"

smdh


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post #116 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman View Post
It's astounding that people still make excuses for financing a byb. If you truly did work for a rescue then that is one of their cornerstones ie never finance a byb. Get them to sign the animals over or wait until it starts to impact their bottom line and they turn them into a shelter.
Bolded mine.

THIS!!! There is NOTHING wrong with having your heart break over a dog kept in poor conditions. It means you are a human being with a big heart. HOWEVER, by giving people keeping dogs in poor conditions money, you've essentially printed an "I approve" stamp to tack onto their forehead.

3 out of 4 of my immediate family's dogs are from being signed over from "accidental" breedings or dogfighters. We didn't abandon dogs that we saw were in need, nor did we give them monetary approval for what they've done. We convinced them to let us help, to let us educate them and spay/neuter their dogs and screen the new homes to make sure their puppies ended up in good hands. FOR FREE. That is the difference! You can still HELP, just don't spend money!

BTW, my mother used to not see the point in buying from a reputable breeder until we went to that Harrisburg show and spoke with Mary Jo from Fitzmar Dobermans. She was so impressed by Maverick that she's quit her "I don't want a show dog I want a pet" routine and has been thinking about doing her own breeder research to get a dobe (my father has wanted one for ages) from someone who's actually doing things right. We also spoke to another breeder (if she's on here I'm sorry but I didn't catch your name but you had a red boy finish his GrCH that day I believe), and between the two being INCREDIBLY nice and helpful and answering all of our questions and withstanding my pestering, they both changed her mind for the better. Talk to a good breeder one day, you will see the difference in the knowledge of their dog and their breed is like night and day.


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post #117 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 01:52 AM
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Question : How do you eat an elephant ?

Answer: In small bites

How the uk are tackling puppy farming. It's small steps but it will be banned in this country before long.

http://www.epupz.co.uk/puppyfarm.asp

http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/az/b/batteryfarmeddogs/

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-15622976

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/hopeuk/info.htm

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/5145


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post #118 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
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Everyone needs to have some humor. I found my last couple post humorous. Back to seriousness. I just dont see how 1 or two people not purchasing a puppy will make any difference when someone else will gladly buy the pups and then the cycle continues. Its everywhere saying spay and neuter your pets that thousonds of pets die every year in shelters. It would take a idiot not to know that but yet they will go buy that cute puppy in the pet store. the cycle then again continues. I see the point that breeding will be done as long as people pay and buy puppies. Would reputable breeders breed if they had no homes for there puppies.. no they wouldnt. But theres always someone who is gunna want that puppy from any type of breeder there is to many people in the world to stop it. But im done on this thread now. Goodluck to raine and her new puppy and goodluck to all the educaters. I do recomend coming off a bit nicer to newcomers and explaining nicely why you feel that way. If they wont take your advice then nothing can be done. You cant force someone to do something you think they should because people are gunna do what they want too anyways.
If one or 2 people in a city don't buy a badly bred puppy, that's one or 2 puppies that take longer to get sold, one or 2 puppies that make their crappy breeder think twice when they get ready to breed again. Multiply that per year, across the nation, and the number of puppies getting pumped out with slowly dwindle. Yes, it's slow, but if people have some ethics and not buy from horrible breeders, the number of puppies pumped out just for profit WILL go down.

If people don't learn and just say 'it doesn't matter, someone else will buy this puppy' then that number will NEVER go down.
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post #119 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 06:17 PM
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Well if it makes anyone feel any better. I have my limit on family pets and it will be 10-15 yrs if i decide to add another pet to my household. So problem solved.
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post #120 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-03-2012, 06:21 PM
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Well if it makes anyone feel any better. I have my limit on family pets and it will be 10-15 yrs if i decide to add another pet to my household. So problem solved.
Not really......
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post #121 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
How could you possibly have worked with any kind of ETHICAL rescue, and continue to support trashy greeders?

I'm with whoever it was who called BS on that one.

Then again, there sure are some shady/faux rescues out there with the ethics of a moronic yard snake, so maybe you got your "mentoring" from someone like that.

I do hate that you purchased those two puppies. That makes the job of real rescuers that much more difficult.

From your first posts here, it was evident that you had no qualms with supporting BYBs, millers, greeders, etc, as long as it suited your purposes.

You've prevaricated, danced around the issue, acted like a little attention ____ (rhymes with boar), and evaded the real problem, ever since you arrived here.

Whatever, I don't really care to chit-chat and share puppy pics and stories with someone who has such a lack of conscience.

Shame on you, for what you did to ALL the other dogs and puppies who go thru that greeder's version of hell.

Shame on you, especially, for saying you'd do it all over again.

Some folks choose not to learn.

And speaking of, not that your posts were ever credible, but yeah, "kepted," and "costed," are not really words, in case you care to take anything away from DT.
...I am real new here and I have been following this thread a bit not wanting to chime in for either side of the issue until I read this post...that being said, it is amazing to me the pompous attitude of the "self righteous"...the bullying that goes on is amazing...are you the kind that gets worked up in a frenzy when you see someone speeding or changing lanes without a turn signal?

...my new to me dobe came from one of your "BYB" types...I chose this route because I could see that both parents had very good pedigrees and and a history of producing champions...I want what I want and I will not be intimidated by someone trying to beat me down with guilt...if you want to go save the world have fun at it...meanwhile I will enjoy my life and learn from knowledgeable Dobe owners who would like to share information rather than give lectures...
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post #122 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 11:35 AM
u mad?
 
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...my new to me dobe came from one of your "BYB" types...I chose this route because I could see that both parents had very good pedigrees and and a history of producing champions...I want what I want and I will not be intimidated by someone trying to beat me down with guilt...if you want to go save the world have fun at it...meanwhile I will enjoy my life and learn from knowledgeable Dobe owners who would like to share information rather than give lectures...
I would be very curious to see these pedigrees and also to know your opinion about what makes a pedigree "good."



No dog is at fault for being born into this world.
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post #123 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 11:52 AM
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oh boy...here goes, another one seeing nothing wrong with buying from a BYB...

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post #124 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by BluesDog View Post
...I am real new here and I have been following this thread a bit not wanting to chime in for either side of the issue until I read this post...that being said, it is amazing to me the pompous attitude of the "self righteous"...the bullying that goes on is amazing...are you the kind that gets worked up in a frenzy when you see someone speeding or changing lanes without a turn signal?

...my new to me dobe came from one of your "BYB" types...I chose this route because I could see that both parents had very good pedigrees and and a history of producing champions...I want what I want and I will not be intimidated by someone trying to beat me down with guilt...if you want to go save the world have fun at it...meanwhile I will enjoy my life and learn from knowledgeable Dobe owners who would like to share information rather than give lectures...
Well, that little nerve that got struck, by my words, is the tiny shred of conscience your gut is still in touch with.

Deep down, you know you made an unethical choice, or this wouldn't bother you.

My heart has joined the thousand, for my friend stopped running today~Richard Adams


"Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self."
―Cyril Connolly
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post #125 of 167 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDog View Post
...I am real new here and I have been following this thread a bit not wanting to chime in for either side of the issue until I read this post...that being said, it is amazing to me the pompous attitude of the "self righteous"...the bullying that goes on is amazing...are you the kind that gets worked up in a frenzy when you see someone speeding or changing lanes without a turn signal?

...my new to me dobe came from one of your "BYB" types...I chose this route because I could see that both parents had very good pedigrees and and a history of producing champions...I want what I want and I will not be intimidated by someone trying to beat me down with guilt...if you want to go save the world have fun at it...meanwhile I will enjoy my life and learn from knowledgeable Dobe owners who would like to share information rather than give lectures...
How can you learn if you don't have an open enough mind to the possibility there is a better way to become a dog owner? And a BYB, not even a greeder, is not the best way. It only hurts the breed as a whole. But some people will never care about that.
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