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'Halla's hind leg

4K views 38 replies 12 participants last post by  Salamander 
#1 ·
For those of you who have seen her recent videos, she's doing really well, in general.

However, her right hind leg has a 'quirk' when she's walking.

It seems to be ever so slightly bowed out and when she walks, it seems to sort of do a flip-twist thing like you'd see in a Chow with bad stifles.

Sometimes she'll raise it high up in an exaggerated fashion when walking.

I've searched the forum and found that she should not be exercising quite so much, should be on carpet and not slippery tile and not be drinking the milk she loves so much.

I was worried that her food might be the culprit but TOTW High Prairie Formula seems to have a very good calcium/phosphorus ratio.

The milk and goat's milk added to her food may be screwing that up so, as much as she loves that stuff, it's being eliminated just in case.

She has a checkup on Monday and since we already know she's had a head injury and fractured right elbow, should I ask them to x-ray her to see what's going on in there?

It only shows up at a walk.
She trots and runs just fine.

Hubby "can't see" the gait oddity but it sticks out like a blazing neon sign, to me.

[my teenage 4-H horse and pony/dog conformation classes stuck with me forever...I see everything that's even half of a frog hair "off"]

I know I'm being a worry-wort...it's what I do.

Having vowed to move mountains to make her completely well again, this is yet another hill I need to address.

I do not think it's a conformational fault because, in spite of being the worst breeders imaginable, the bitch and the sire are four-square, firm and sound and have the most correct leg sets imaginable.

Her dad is my Odin's dad and Odin is the most correct legged dog I've ever owned and he moves and single tracks like a dream.

Her hind leg was not doing this until recently..I'm thinking I noticed it about a week and half ago.

She's growing shockingly fast, as well.

Whereas Odin grew consistently and proportionately, remaining always square, she is growing like a colt...becoming 'all legs' instead of staying proportionate.

Granted, her mom is a much more 'elegant' and leggy dog than Odin's mom was but the wonky hind leg has me concerned, especially in light of her history of 'broken bits' issues.

It doesn't seem like Pano because it's always her right side limbs.

[she has been limping sporadically on her front leg, as well]

I plan to cut back on her free-roaming romps [daddy's doing] and will be looking for some kind of cheap carpeting to cover as much of the floor as possible.
[it's a fairly big bedroom floor...25' x 15']

I've also read the Great Dane Lady's articles on knuckling over and it's not that, I don't think.

Her front legs seem fine...so far.

I also checked the forum links to Osteochondrosis.

I'm worried it's that because it sure seems to 'fit'.

[sorry to be a chronic PITA to y'all but you know I'm gonna drive myself insane[r] getting her as close to 100% as possible]

:p
 
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#4 ·
I know that when Elka grew, it wasn't proportional at all. It was legs one week, head another, neck, back, etc. She did have a brief knuckling issue, that I addressed pretty much as soon as it started.

As you say, it might be the milk, and might disappear on its own in the next week as soon as it reappears.

Sorry about the vet :(
 
#5 ·
She's on strict dog food only now diet, no added 'extra' stuff.

I also am adding some Buckeye Pro Superbits so she has some carbs.

TOTW is no grain and I use for it my other kids to keep them lean and hard.

I think she's skinny.

She's up to 12.3 lbs but looks lanky to me.

Odin was such a chunky little guy.

Either she's not getting enough 'fattening up' or she's going to be a lanky dog.

I sure her CBC comes back more normal.

I about had a stroke when they gave us the bill.

1 CBC and a worm test, that much?

No wonder their clinic is so fancy.

:rolleyesww:

You should watch Ibizan Hounds grow up.

Nothing matches anything else until they're at least 6 months old.

;)
 
#8 ·
Not really.
She sits very square and compact like Dobes usually sit.

The leg bows outward slight around the knee and she only shows signs of abnormality at the walk.

Her leg tends to sort of roll/pop when she walks on it and she's putting weight on the outside of her rear foot.

Sometimes she'll take a weird, forward pointing 'high step' on that leg as if she's stretching it or something.

We're going to have it x-rayed if the new large breed puppy food doesn't help.

She does have elevated calcium/phosporus levels so her bone formation may be affected.

Her growth spurt is bizarre.

She's growing up but not 'out'.

She looks like a bony, leggy foal and is growing too fast, IMO.

She was limping on her right front leg too but that seems to have stopped.

Pano, maybe?
 
#9 ·
Cool. Could just be growing pains (pano) but I'm glad you are on top if it! Hugs to her.

If you notice that one leg starts to pops out in a sit, I'd have a hip x ray done. Speaking from expience, trust me, it's 50 bucks well spent compared to the alternative.
 
#12 ·
I agree, and im not trying to be a negative nelly... BUT there are conformation flaws and there are structural deformities. My puppy had a congenital defect of the hip requiring an FHO (Femoral Head Ostectomy) after a dislocation from simply running in the yard at the age of 8months.

Conformation aside, the "squareness" of a puppy shouldn't cause lameness.
 
#15 ·
Yes I agree that it may need attention. I actually read the post again and read the part about popping out when she walks and the straight leg little thing...sounds a bit like a loose knee/cruciate issue.
It unfortunately would not be a surprise for a pup with this history to have some issues like this. Sometimes things do work out with growth but it doesn't hurt to have a baseline picture to know how it is going. It could use an xray to see.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Yes I agree that it may need attention. I actually read the post again and read the part about popping out when she walks and the straight leg little thing...sounds a bit like a loose knee/cruciate issue.
It unfortunately would not be a surprise for a pup with this history to have some issues like this. Sometimes things do work out with growth but it doesn't hurt to have a baseline picture to know how it is going. It could use an xray to see.
This is what I'm thinking, too.

I've known Ibizans with cruciate injuries and it's kind of what it reminds me of but nowhere near as debilitating.

She can bear full weight upon it and is not 'limping', per se.

I'm trying to figure out if it can be a sprain, a strain or the result of a hyper-extension incident...something along the line of something being 'stretched' during one of her clumsy romps.

I've just never seen a pup this young in the wonky growing stage with it so it makes it's hard to figure out.

It's too "sudden", erratic and sporadic to be something conformational.

Her breeding, although it be backyard, it not "dubious".

She has some really great lines behind her and adult dogs from the same but previous breeding are really incredible specimens.

Her 3 YO full sister is a dog who, if not for her medium crop, I wouldn't be ashamed to enter a ring with.

As I mentioned, long before I knew her pedigree, those dogs kept making me think "Man, that dog looks familiar!", and they look exactly like the dogs Kay Hill was breeding in the 70's.

They offered to sell me that bitch but #1, I'm not happy about putting any money in their pocket, #2, I'm not sure how well an adult female would integrate with my own pack.

The only upside to it would be getting that beautiful bitch out of that cold kennel and into a warm house.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Sounds like Luxating Patellas. Its a disorder of the knees. Can affect 1 or both. May or may not require surgery it depends on the degree knees. It will make them walk weird on the affected knees. Also cause pain to some degree depending on severity. Also the stretching out you described is a way they try and pop there knee back into place. I would definitely check into that.
 
#21 ·
I have no words of wisdom to offer about her leg although I do see what you mean in the videos. It does not seem to affect her ability to play and move.

But omg she is a cutie! She looks great! You have done a wonderful job caring for her. Thanks for all you have done and are doing! :butfly:
 
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#22 ·
Gosh...I can't take credit for her recovery.

All the financial help and prayers she's received did it...:)

And she is a little keg of doggie dynamite, that's for sure.

Odin was such a good boy as a pup, always sensible and serious.

She's a relentless little maniac!

Since she's in her 'demon possessed stapler' biting phase, I've been calling her "Weasel" from the Zappa album "Weasels Ripped My Flesh"....:D

[she doesn't answer to Halla...some dogs pick their own names. Ive had few who simply refused to acknowledge the name I wanted them to have]


:roflmao:
 
#23 ·
She's a nut - love it!! She does do something odd, hard to guess though. She doesn't look too skinny to me personally either. I'm not a fan of overly chunky puppies though.
 
#24 ·
If that were my puppy I would take her to an orthopedist. She looks like she is moving the leg outward to avoid bending the stifle joint.
Even though it doesn't hurt her now my biggest concern is that she could get early arthritis in that joint.
 
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#27 ·
I have tons of concerns for her future and that's one of them.

She's scheduled for an x-ray next week so we'll see if anything's ever been broken.

There's only one dog chiropractor I can get hold of and that's only sometimes and she's not that great, especially considering what she charges for what little gets done.

I switched from her to Odin's physical therapist with much better results.

I'm going to have to hunt for a dog orthopedist.

Don't think there's any around here.

:-\
 
#25 ·
I'd say the weirdness to the gait is a compensation for something else going on.

I'd second an orthopedist for xrays, but I'd also consider a certified animal chiropractor. In my pup, sometimes the only sign I have that she's due for a chiro visit is a wonky gait.
 
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#30 ·
So Halla and my Diesel and siblings from different litters (same parents, same BYB) ao I always want to follow Halla's progress.

I can say "D", as we call Diesel, has shown none of these characteristics in his legs that Halla is displaying. If the change in diet does not resolve things soon, I would consider an orthopedic visit if at all possible.

Are you planning on showing er and tat is why you are concerned about conformation?
 
#31 ·
Diesel wasn't broken in pieces and half dead, either.
He'll probably be fine.
The Briarwood dogs are known for longevity so be happy for that...:)

No, she's not going to be shown.

I just want her little body all fixed up *now* so she has no problems later and lives the best possible life imaginable.

I'm 99% sure this isn't a conformation issue.
I believe it's an injury or symptom of all that she's been through.

I need to fix it to be satisfied that everything that can be done for her will be.

I'm determined to get her as 'back to normal' as possible.

To me, there is no qualitative distinction between a free BYB puppy and the grandest champion dog.

They *all* get treated like winners....:)
 
#36 ·
Video screams Luxating patellas to me. If you could get her to sit still and you take her knee and move the joint in a normal walk position and see if you fee any poping or looseness or tenderness. That would give you a idea if its a luxating patella and the joint isnt siting right. A simple x ray would confirm or rule it out. if it confirms it a regular vet would be able to tell you what degree it is.

Ive seen dogs with luxating patellas.
 
#37 ·
I'll have the vet do that.

That little hellcat won't sit still for me.

She thinks I've been put on this earth strictly for her chewing pleasure.

The couple of times I've successfully tried to manipulate it, I'm not feeling any 'shelf sign' at all and it hasn't felt abnormal to my hands but I'm not a vet.

My mom's Chow had obvious LP and I could feel that with winter gloves on, figuratively speaking.

I have noticed that it generally shows up after she's been running around too much.
 
#39 ·
just let us know what your vet says. To me it looks like a low grade LP. I saw a dog once with such bad LP both of her knees bowed out and made her legs look deformed. As she grew it got better and didnt require surgery :)
That's the most hopeful thing I've heard in a long time....:D

She actually seemed a little better yesterday.

We're letting her exercise to build up her leg strength and it seems to be working.

Maybe the food change is helping, too.
 
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