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Old 11-10-2012, 01:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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To vaccinate or not ?

Hey I'm new to DT and will be getting my new pup on the 24th of November . I am debating wether to vaccinate my pup I know rabies is a must but are all the others really necessary. Any suggestions on what to do ? Thx all


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Old 11-10-2012, 01:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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does your breeder know you're questioning whether to vaccinate?

keep in mind, you cannot take your dog anywhere if he or she lacks basic vaccinations. also, parvo is deadly.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Why can't I bring her anywhere I believe vaccines are more of a harm


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Old 11-10-2012, 03:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Why can't I bring her anywhere I believe vaccines are more of a harm


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Different places have different rules as pertains to vaccinations. For instance, my local "dog park" (just built) does not permit dogs that have not had the kennel cough vaccine. Airlines and doggie daycares are on this list, I'm sure, and simply taking a dog to the vet exposes him/her to all kinds of unpleasant things.
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Why can't I bring her anywhere I believe vaccines are more of a harm


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It's not the vaccines, it's the OVERUSE of vaccines that is the problem. Your puppy needs to be PROPERLY immunized for the basics especially parvo. If you have ever watched a puppy die of parvo or distemper you would not be asking this question.
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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People who chose not to vaccinate their dogs (or children for that matter) are putting the rest of us at risk, sorry but I think the risk of life threatening diseases far outweigh the risk of vaccinating in 99% of cases. Vaccination only works if everyone is doing it, if only half of the population gets vaccinated we're in for a bad time...

Whether you continue to give yearly/3-yearly vaccinations is up to you and your vet to decide, I think the in USA you still have to give rabies vaccinations, and some places (kennels, dog parks, dog shows) will require up to date kennel cough vaccines... You can have titre testing done on your dog yearly to see if they are still carrying antibodies from their puppy vaccinations and some boarding kennels etc. will accept that as proof of vaccination.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thx for all the advice . I will go for the first set of puppy vaccinations and rabies but after that I will not do anymore


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Old 11-10-2012, 07:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thx for all the advice . I will go for the first set of puppy vaccinations and rabies but after that I will not do anymore


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You need to give the proper number of vaccines to ensure immunity!! If you only do one then do a titer to verify immunity. You clearly are not understanding the proper use of vaccines. Please do your puppy a favor and do this correctly!!!
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Why can't I bring her anywhere I believe vaccines are more of a harm


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are you a member of the medical community? what causes you to have this belief?
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Make sure to finish out the puppy series. DHLPP is a series (usually every 4 weeks until 16 weeks old) and is not just a single vaccination or your puppy will not have adequate immunity and will not be properly protected.

Its not just boarding facilities and dog parks you have to worry about, taking your dog out anywhere can expose them to these airborne viruses. Puppies do not have well-developed immune systems, which is why vaccines are so important.

Core vaccines (rabies and DHLPP) are very important, whereas all the other vaccines can be decided on a case-to-case basis, such as bordetella, which usually isn't necessary unless your dog will be boarding, showing, or around a lot of strange dogs often like at a dog park.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Puppy vaccinations are very important. From what i heard Dobermans are more sensitive to Parvo the other breeds.

Parvo and Distemper are fairly common. Parvo can be picked up fom anywhere and you can even bring it home to your own dog.

Its very important to vaccinate. It protects your dog!

Everywhere is different. Vaccinations should start at 6 or 8 weeks and vaccinated every 4-6 weeks. A total of 3-4 vaccinations. Depending on what your vet thinks.

because first shot may or may not be affective. It takes the boosters for it to actually do any good. After the initial vaccinations, They usually do yearly. But after there about 2 then i wouldnt worry about the distemper parvo vaccination so much. But its a must for all puppies.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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My dogs got three puppy shot at 6, 9, and 12 weeks. At 16 weeks they got an adult booster and rabies. After that the only thing they get is a rabies yearly (as is required by state law, some states recognize every three years).

Parvo is not something you play with, and Dobermans are especialy suseptable. If you do nothing else PLEASE give your puppy all of his/her DHPP vaccines.
My girl just left the vet Monday after being there for 5 days with Parvo. She is one of the lucky ones.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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are you a member of the medical community? what causes you to have this belief?
No I am not but my sister is a naturopath and does not believe I vaccinations . She has had 3 dogs that were never vaccinated and they all lived long happy lives and that includes a 12 year old Doberman female that's why I'm inquiring to get the whole picture . I am not favoring one side over another .


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Old 11-10-2012, 08:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Make sure to finish out the puppy series. DHLPP is a series (usually every 4 weeks until 16 weeks old) and is not just a single vaccination or your puppy will not have adequate immunity and will not be properly protected.
The vaccine series is given at intervals to hit the target time for immune response. The reason we do this is to get the puppy immunized while avoiding the maternal antibodies. If a vaccine is given when the puppy has maternal immunity the vaccine is rendered ineffective. If the vaccine is given and there is an adequate immune response, the puppy is protected. If one wanted to limit vaccines then it is important to TEST TITER AFTERWARDS TO VERIFY IMMUNITY LEVEL OTHERWISE YOU WILL NEED TO CONTINUE WITH VACCINES.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
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No I am not but my sister is a naturopath and does not believe I vaccinations . She has had 3 dogs that were never vaccinated and they all lived long happy lives and that includes a 12 year old Doberman female that's why I'm inquiring to get the whole picture . I am not favoring one side over another .


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She was lucky. Does she also not believe in immunizing children for childhood disease??

The vaccine naysayers are the reason we have a resurgence of TOTALLY PREVENTABLE diseases like polio and pertussis. It is because of vaccines the world is FREE of smallpox.

I watched a horse suffer horribly before being PTS from tetanus. Let me tell you I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. I keep up to date on a tetanus shot.

I think it completely irresponsible not to vaccinate a puppy. I challenge any holistic follower to treat and save a puppy dying from parvo. Isn't going to happen, and parvo is preventable with proper immunization.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The vaccine series is given at intervals to hit the target time for immune response. The reason we do this is to get the puppy immunized while avoiding the maternal antibodies. If a vaccine is given when the puppy has maternal immunity the vaccine is rendered ineffective. If the vaccine is given and there is an adequate immune response, the puppy is protected. If one wanted to limit vaccines then it is important to TEST TITER AFTERWARDS TO VERIFY IMMUNITY LEVEL OTHERWISE YOU WILL NEED TO CONTINUE WITH VACCINES.
There have been studies on feline vaccines and titers - and I'm sure the same would apply to dogs - a low titer does not necessarily mean the animal is not protected since there are memory cells that respond and render an animal adequately protected should an infection happen. Therefore some experts on the subject put limited stock on titers.

I personally still like to titer because I like to see the numbers, but that's just me. And I still booster if a titer is low because I'm paranoid that way. Better be safe than sorry. I thought it was interesting info though.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
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For sure get the core vaccines. I would not get a core vaccine done at the same time with a Rabies vaccine. I would wait 4 weeks.
My personal opinon I would not get the Kennel Cough Vaccine. Kennel Cough is like a human cold. We get Titer tests to check the level of antibodies of Distemper and Parvo. Rabbies Vaccine depends on where you live. Some are 1yr or 3yr.
Some info for you to read.
Also an informative video to watch.

Dr. Karen Becker and Dr. Ronald Schultz on Pet Vaccines - YouTube

Dr. Jean Dodds' Recommended Vaccination Schedule
Vaccine Initial 1st Annual Booster Re-Administration Interval Comments
Distemper (MLV)
(e.g. Intervet Progard Puppy) 9 weeks
12 weeks
16 - 20 weeks At 1 year MLV Distemper/ Parvovirus only
None needed.
Duration of immunity 7.5 / 15 years by studies. Probably lifetime. Longer studies pending. Can have numerous side effects if given too young (< 8 weeks).
Parvovirus (MLV)
(e.g. Intervet Progard Puppy) 9 weeks
12 weeks
16 - 20 weeks At 1 year MLV Distemper/ Parvovirus only None needed.
Duration of immunity 7.5 years by studies. Probably lifetime. Longer studies pending. At 6 weeks of age, only 30% of puppies are protected but 100% are exposed to the virus at the vet clinic.
Rabies
(killed) 24 weeks or older At 1 year (give 3-4 weeks apart from Dist/Parvo booster) Killed 3 year rabies vaccine 3 yr. vaccine given as required by law in California (follow your state/provincial requirements) rabid animals may infect dogs.
Vaccines Not Recommended For Dogs
Distemper & Parvo @ 6 weeks or younger Not recommended.
At this age, maternal antibodies form the mothers milk (colostrum) will neutralize the vaccine and only 30% for puppies will be protected. 100% will be exposed to the virus at the vet clinic.
Corona Not recommended.
1.) Disease only affects dogs <6 weeks of age.
2.) Rare disease: TAMU has seen only one case in seven years.
3.) Mild self-limiting disease.
4.) Efficacy of the vaccine is questionable.
Leptospirosis Not recommended
1) There are an average of 12 cases reported annually in California.
2) Side effects common.
3) Most commonly used vaccine contains the wrong serovars. (There is no cross-protection of serovars) There is a new vaccine with 2 new serovars. Two vaccinations twice per year would be required for protection.).
4) Risk outweighs benefits.
Lyme Not recommended
1) Low risk in California.
2) 85% of cases are in 9 New England states and Wisconsin.
3) Possible side effect of polyarthritis from whole cell bacterin.
Boretella
(Intranasal)
(killed) Only recommended 3 days prior to boarding when required.
Protects against 2 of the possible 8 causes of kennel cough.
Duration of immunity 6 months.
Giardia Not recommended
Efficacy of vaccine unsubstantiated by independent studies


There are two types of vaccines currently available to veterinarians: modified-live vaccines and inactivated ("killed") vaccines.
Immunization Schedules
There is a great deal of controversy and confusion surrounding the appropriate immunization schedule, especially with the availability of modified-live vaccines and breeders who have experienced postvaccinal problems when using some of these vaccines. It is also important to not begin a vaccination program while maternal antibodies are still active and present in the puppy from the mother's colostrum. The maternal antibodies identify the vaccines as infectious organisms and destroy them before they can stimulate an immune response.
Many breeders and owners have sought a safer immunization program.
Modified Live Vaccines (MLV)
Modified-live vaccines contain a weakened strain of the disease causing agent. Weakening of the agent is typically accomplished by chemical means or by genetic engineering. These vaccines replicate within the host, thus increasing the amount of material available for provoking an immune response without inducing clinical illness. This provocation primes the immune system to mount a vigorous response if the disease causing agent is ever introduced to the animal. Further, the immunity provided by a modified-live vaccine develops rather swiftly and since they mimic infection with the actual disease agent, it provides the best immune response.
Inactivated Vaccines (Killed)
Inactivated vaccines contain killed disease causing agents. Since the agent is killed, it is much more stable and has a longer shelf life, there is no possibility that they will revert to a virulent form, and they never spread from the vaccinated host to other animals. They are also safe for use in pregnant animals (a developing fetus may be susceptible to damage by some of the disease agents, even though attenuated, present in modified-live vaccines). Although more than a single dose of vaccine is always required and the duration of immunity is generally shorter, inactivated vaccines are regaining importance in this age of retrovirus and herpesvirus infections and concern about the safety of genetically modified microorganisms. Inactivated vaccines available for use in dogs include rabies, canine parvovirus, canine coronavirus, etc.


W. Jean Dodds, DVM
HEMOPET
938 Stanford Street
Santa Monica, CA 90403
310/ 828-4804
fax: 310/ 828-8251

Note: This schedule is the one I recommend and should not be interpreted to mean that other protocols recommended by a veterinarian would be less satisfactory. It's a matter of professional judgment and choice. For breeds or families of dogs susceptible to or affected with immune dysfunction, immune-mediated disease, immune-reactions associated with vaccinations, or autoimmune endocrine disease (e.g., thyroiditis, Addison's or Cushing's disease, diabetes, etc.) the above protocol is recommended.

After 1 year, annually measure serum antibody titers against specific canine infectious agents such as distemper and parvovirus. This is especially recommended for animals previously experiencing adverse vaccine reactions or breeds at higher risk for such reactions (e.g., Weimaraner, Akita, American Eskimo, Great Dane).

Another alternative to booster vaccinations is homeopathic nosodes. This option is considered an unconventional treatment that has not been scientifically proven to be efficacious. One controlled parvovirus nosode study did not adequately protect puppies under challenged conditions. However, data from Europe and clinical experience in North America support its use. If veterinarians choose to use homeopathic nosodes, their clients should be provided with an appropriate disclaimer and written informed consent should be obtained.

I use only killed 3 year rabies vaccine for adults and give it separated from other vaccines by 3-4 weeks. In some states, they may be able to give titer test result in lieu of booster.

I do NOT use Bordetella, corona virus, leptospirosis or Lyme vaccines unless these diseases are endemic in the local area pr specific kennel. Furthermore, the currently licensed leptospira bacterins do not contain the serovars causing the majority of clinical leptospirosis today.

I do NOT recommend vaccinating bitches during estrus, pregnancy or lactation.

W. Jean Dodds, DVM
HEMOPET

Printable Titers Forms and Instructions for Testing: HEMOPET.HTM
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Thx for all the advice . I will go for the first set of puppy vaccinations and rabies but after that I will not do anymore
If you decide to get one vaccine, you should do all the vaccines. I know StarlaineK9 mentioned this as well, but I thought I would post this information. I wrote the following another thread when puppy vaccines came up. I think the more information you have, the better to make your decision.

If a bitch is properly vaccinated prior to breeding, she will pass maternal antibodies to her puppies via colostrum (first milk that the puppies drink when they are born). These antibodies will be with the puppies until they are between 8-16 weeks of age, and then they will start to "wear off." Because we are unable to tell when these antibodies wear off, vaccines are recommended at 8, 12 and 16 weeks of age. This is in hopes that your puppy will have immunity from the vaccines when the maternal antibodies wear off.
It is important to know that maternal antibodies will interfere with vaccine antibodies, so getting 3 sets of shots is very important. If you only give your puppy one set of shots, let's say at 8 weeks, but he still has maternal antibodies, this vaccine will be somewhat useless. But his maternal antibodies could disappear at 10 weeks, so it is important to get the remaining boosters to ensure proper immunity. The basic canine vaccine is DA2PP, which is for distemper, adenovirus type 2, parvovirus and parainfluenza. Dogs should be vaccinated for rabies, and then there host of other vaccines that can be given (i.e. kennel cough, lepto, etc), depending on your dog's exposure and geography.
A booster one year after the 16 week shot should be done, and then from there I think it would be up to you and your vet if you choose to do titers or vaccinate again.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:10 AM   #19 (permalink)
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All your post are very helpful . I am really glad to be a member of this forum


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Old 11-11-2012, 12:38 AM   #20 (permalink)
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No I am not but my sister is a naturopath and does not believe I vaccinations . She has had 3 dogs that were never vaccinated and they all lived long happy lives and that includes a 12 year old Doberman female that's why I'm inquiring to get the whole picture . I am not favoring one side over another .


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your sister is lucky they're all alive. i knew someone who claimed to believe in that bunk, and her dog got parvo a week later. do you know how awful parvo is for a puppy? or for the owner who watches the dog suffer?

please, get the dog its puppy vax or don't get a puppy...otherwise, chances are you're sentencing the dog to a very untimely death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaineK9 View Post
I think it completely irresponsible not to vaccinate a puppy. I challenge any holistic follower to treat and save a puppy dying from parvo. Isn't going to happen, and parvo is preventable with proper immunization.
not only that...we have modern medicine for a reason. naturopathy has its place, and it can be used in conjunction with modern medicine, but expecting naturopathy to be the only way to live is just foolish.

Last edited by falnfenix; 11-11-2012 at 12:47 AM..
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:51 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Vaccines are to provide white blood cells immunity towards illnesses that could cause serious damage in dogs. Lymphocytes(white blood cell) are important to help the body's immune system, they mature in the thymus and become 'T-cells'.

"T-Cells: Mature in the thymus - come in contact with an antigen they will either become memory or effector cells - effector cells can be: T-helper, T-supressor or cytolytic cells."

So as stated, the T-cell will memorize the vaccine's killed illness and if the dog ever came into contact, the T-cells will "wake up" and fight off the illness. I'm in the Vet Tech program and we learn a lot about the white blood cells and everything there is to know about animals.
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