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Old 04-01-2012, 05:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Can I get a second male if...

I currently have a 3.5 year old neutered aussie mix. I really would like a male dobe puppy which would be neutered pretty early in life. Is it ok to have these two males or do you think there'd still be a big same sex aggression problem?


edit:
Also, when Baby went to doggy day care his best buddy was a male doberman, not that, that really means anything but still... and despite always trying to hump other dogs at the park he's pretty laid back and gets the picture pretty quickly if it ain't gonna happen. He'd rather walk away from a fight.

Last edited by KCmetric; 04-01-2012 at 06:10 PM.. Reason: added info
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Neutering does not eliminate same sex aggression.

There are some pretty good threads on the subject.. I'm sure others will chime in with them.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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It depends on the dogs - they may be fine, they might not there is no way to predict whether they will be OK or not once the dobe puppy matures between 2-3 years of age. My males get along but Pete was adopted at 6 years old and has no male issues. A friend of mine had 2 males get along great for years until one day they decided they don't like each other anymore.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I agree that two males can be successfully kept together, but this is not an easy task and you should be prepared for a life of constant supervision and crate/rotate. It is a risk that most people are not willing to take because this wouldn't be a great life for either dog, not to mention many reputable breeders and rescues will not sell/adopt a male to you if you have other males in the home.

It also might be good for you to look into the effects of neutering early. There has been some debate, but it is thought to cause bone problems later in life. Our breeder recommends dogs sold on neuter contract keep dogs intact until at least 12-18 months of age to let them physically mature before fixing them.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You'd be playing with luck... is it worth risking the well-being ofyour aussie?

Keep in mine that no reputable breeder will sell you a male puply woth a male dog already in the household.
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCmetric View Post
I currently have a 3.5 year old neutered aussie mix. I really would like a male dobe puppy which would be neutered pretty early in life. Is it ok to have these two males or do you think there'd still be a big same sex aggression problem?


edit:
Also, when Baby went to doggy day care his best buddy was a male doberman, not that, that really means anything but still... and despite always trying to hump other dogs at the park he's pretty laid back and gets the picture pretty quickly if it ain't gonna happen. He'd rather walk away from a fight.
Although I keep multiple males and NEVER EVER recommend that other people try doing the same thing there are a number of things to consider if you are even thinking about trying to do this.

I've had a half century of experience with intact male Dobermans and read dogs pretty well--and I have the advantage of often raising a male puppy for a breeder friend who has people like me foster pups sometimes when she is trying to make a final decision about which of two puppies she is going to keep. I've raised some puppies that could fit well into the existing pack (even though it was all male) and some that didn't--when I had a vacancy I have kept a puppy if they were a good fit and have sent others back to the breeder when they hit six months if they weren't a good fit.

There are some breeds that can co-exist with anything and any breed very well--Aussies are pretty much one of those breeds. Even though I've met a few that were agressive toward other dogs the majority of them are not. As a breed and as working herders they are often used in packs of multiple dogs for herding purposes--so the breed tendency is life and let live.

My Australian Shepherd was an intact male who lived with other intact males (all Dobermans) all of his nearly 13 years. Dobe puppies pestered him to death and he was tolerant and long suffering with them. Some of the adult males were grumpy if stressed or tired and the Aussie was smart enough to avoid them when that was the case. While I had him I occasionally dog sat for an Aussie breeder--the dogs I took were always intact males--from puppies to four or five year old dogs--they moved in and it was as if they had always lived with my pack.

If you are going to try to deal with two males and one of them is an Australian Shepherd I think you've got a pretty fair chance of success. If you start with a Dobe puppy and the breeder you get him from is breeding fairly mellow dogs (there are some lines around that really are more suited for trying to deal with a two male household) it's quite possible that you'd be successful. There are, of course, no sure bets and you'd have to be very aware of interaction between the two dogs. But it happens to be something that I've done and it was very successful.

Good luck.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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What would you do if it didnt work out? Would you be ok crating and rotating for years? Personally I couldn't do it and wouldn't risk it. Others don't mind so much though. That's the question I'd ask myself. The odds aer not in you favor overall, but yes it "can" work with a LOT of work.

I have only been around 10 Aussie males closely and mostly not well bred with average owners. The majority were not good with other males. So maybe these were not the norm?
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks all for your experience and opinions.

And thanks a lot to dobebug, my guy is pretty easy-going and if he doesn't feel like dealing with a dog he just walks away. I've never seen him get into an actual fight.

Regardless of the gender, I will never be leaving my dogs unsupervised, they'll go in their crates when I leave the house or in separate bedrooms.

If I do have problems? My aussie can live with one of my siblings no problem (we all live near by each other). The doberman is going to be my service dog if all goes well so I'm looking for relaxed dogs anyway

Last edited by KCmetric; 04-01-2012 at 09:50 PM..
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCmetric View Post

edit:
Also, when Baby went to doggy day care his best buddy was a male doberman, not that, that really means anything but still... and despite always trying to hump other dogs at the park he's pretty laid back and gets the picture pretty quickly if it ain't gonna happen. He'd rather walk away from a fight.

Dynamics at home can be totally different than out in public on neutral territory. A friend of mine has two female dogs, one pit bull and one corgi mix. When they are out in public playing they are totally fine, when they are in the house the corgi literally wants to kill the pit bull and it would be a blood bath so they are forever crated and rotated inside. They used to cuddle with each other.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCmetric View Post
Thanks all for your experience and opinions.

And thanks a lot to dobebug, my guy is pretty easy-going and if he doesn't feel like dealing with a dog he just walks away. I've never seen him get into an actual fight.

Regardless of the gender, I will never be leaving my dogs unsupervised, they'll go in their crates when I leave the house or in separate bedrooms.

If I do have problems? My aussie can live with one of my siblings no problem (we all live near by each other). The doberman is going to be my service dog if all goes well so I'm looking for relaxed dogs anyway

Male dobe puppy and relaxed don't really fit in the same sentence together, lol
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCmetric View Post
Thanks all for your experience and opinions.

And thanks a lot to dobebug, my guy is pretty easy-going and if he doesn't feel like dealing with a dog he just walks away. I've never seen him get into an actual fight.

Regardless of the gender, I will never be leaving my dogs unsupervised, they'll go in their crates when I leave the house or in separate bedrooms.

If I do have problems? My aussie can live with one of my siblings no problem (we all live near by each other). The doberman is going to be my service dog if all goes well so I'm looking for relaxed dogs anyway
The problem really is... a dobe pup isn't just going to let your other dog walk away. It will be a nonstop constant badgering for play.

Also, you may not find out there is an issue until your dobe is 3 and a half and you run to the store for 20 minutes and come back to a dog with half is leg ripped off (this happened to a friend recently and the injured dog was in fact a really mellow aussie though the offender was not a dobe). Dogs that totally loved each other can turn in an instant.

Are you really so dead set on having a male that you'd be willing to risk the health and safety of your current dog?

Yes... it *can* work... but you have NO guarantees. For me I would never put Whiskey at risk by subjecting him to living with another male. If I get another dog it will be female because I don't want to risk having to crate and rotate them for the rest of their lives or alternately, rehome one.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I've never had first hand experience with it - but I've read enough threads on it here that I wouldn't risk it if it were me. I would hate the crate-and-rotate (just not for me) and I'd also hate to have to someday be forced choose between the two and heaven forbid I'd never forgive myself if they got into a fight. I'm too tired tonight to scour the search for links, but there are definitely some good threads about this.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
If I do have problems? My aussie can live with one of my siblings no problem (we all live near by each other). The doberman is going to be my service dog if all goes well so I'm looking for relaxed dogs anyway
If it doesn't work out the Aussie will go to a new home? I don't think that's quite fair. He was there first. You're just going to trade him in for the new toy?

A dog is a life-time commitment... your dogs depend on you. Sure, at least it's a friend and not a completely new home but still... that's terrible.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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If you start with a Dobe puppy and the breeder you get him from is breeding fairly mellow dogs (there are some lines around that really are more suited for trying to deal with a two male household) it's quite possible that you'd be successful.
Good luck.
Just wondering/curious if anyone has any examples of breeders/lines that one would consider more 'mellow'. It was a big consideration for me going from a 'working' line to a 'show' line..... I've seen a lot of characteristics that are the same as my last 'working' male.....and some that I do notice to be gentler/less drivey. I'm all ears to hear about more mellow lines....
Just for interests sake.

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Old 04-01-2012, 10:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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If I do have problems? My aussie can live with one of my siblings no problem (we all live near by each other). The doberman is going to be my service dog if all goes well so I'm looking for relaxed dogs anyway
Hmm well I'll be honest and say I think that's not very fair or the right thing to do. It sounds as if he'll just be tossed aside and you may not mean it that way at all. But that's what it sounds like.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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May I ask why you would prefer a male over a female? I would think a female would make a great service dog.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:13 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Male dobe puppy and relaxed don't really fit in the same sentence together, lol
I didn't really mean it like that, sorry for the miswording
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:14 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Hmm well I'll be honest and say I think that's not very fair or the right thing to do. It sounds as if he'll just be tossed aside and you may not mean it that way at all. But that's what it sounds like.
Same thing with miswording. Baby is my best friend, I don't take lightly to abandonment of my best friend. I do need a service dog though. But it's my hope and best intention there will not be any issues and if there are I will exhaust my choices until making that decision.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The problem really is... a dobe pup isn't just going to let your other dog walk away. It will be a nonstop constant badgering for play.

Also, you may not find out there is an issue until your dobe is 3 and a half and you run to the store for 20 minutes and come back to a dog with half is leg ripped off (this happened to a friend recently and the injured dog was in fact a really mellow aussie though the offender was not a dobe). Dogs that totally loved each other can turn in an instant.

Are you really so dead set on having a male that you'd be willing to risk the health and safety of your current dog?

Yes... it *can* work... but you have NO guarantees. For me I would never put Whiskey at risk by subjecting him to living with another male. If I get another dog it will be female because I don't want to risk having to crate and rotate them for the rest of their lives or alternately, rehome one.
I don't understanding why all of you are jumping to the conclusion that I'm some horrible owner and am willing to dump one dog for another, that I don't value my dog's life. Why would I be on here asking if it's possible if I didn't give a rat's a*. Also, as I said in my first post or maybe second the dogs will never be left unattended, they will be crated or separated by room. And despite that my dobie is going to be my service dog (assuming it all works out) and will be going everywhere with me instead of just chilling at home.

I'm more than willing to go with female, male just happened to be my first choice.
I'm kind of insulted by many of the posts claiming I don't value my friend's life.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I don't understanding why all of you are jumping to the conclusion that I'm some horrible owner and am willing to dump one dog for another, that I don't value my dog's life. Why would I be on here asking if it's possible if I didn't give a rat's a*. Also, as I said in my first post or maybe second the dogs will never be left unattended, they will be crated or separated by room. And despite that my dobie is going to be my service dog (assuming it all works out) and will be going everywhere with me instead of just chilling at home.

I'm more than willing to go with female, male just happened to be my first choice.
I'm kind of insulted by many of the posts claiming I don't value my friend's life.
You don't see why some people are jumping to conclusions?

You know about the male/male aggression yet ask about it anyways. Ok.. no big deal...
But, when people ask you what you'll do if problems arise you say, "If I do have problems? My aussie can live with one of my siblings no problem."

You don't say, until your most recent post that I"m quoting, that you're more than willing to get a female, you just say that rehoming your aussie will be "no problem" so OF COURSE some people are jumping to conclusions that you're a "horrible owner." You made it easy.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:41 PM   #21 (permalink)
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You don't see why some people are jumping to conclusions?

You know about the male/male aggression yet ask about it anyways. Ok.. no big deal...
But, when people ask you what you'll do if problems arise you say, "If I do have problems? My aussie can live with one of my siblings no problem."

You don't say, until your most recent post that I"m quoting, that you're more than willing to get a female, you just say that rehoming your aussie will be "no problem" so OF COURSE some people are jumping to conclusions that you're a "horrible owner." You made it easy.
Fine.

Thank you all for your advice. I think I got the answers I was looking for. Taking my dog's safety into account I will be getting a female. I just wanted a male dog really badly and put this question on the forum for that reassurance of not getting a male despite my best wishes.

I don't think I deserved being conceived and called a bad dog owner.

I will be talking to the breeder I hope to work with tomorrow anyway but thought I'd seek others' opinions as well...

Sorry if this post comes off as snide, it's just that my feelings were really hurt by some of the things I read. Perhaps such matter could have been said with more compassion or perhaps I'm over-reacting. Regardless, I don't wish to have an argument over this, I just started a new med and can't deal with this and have been ridiculously groggy anyway.

Thank you a lot by the way dobebug
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:06 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Since you highlighted my post I'll respond to what you've said. Never once did I say you were a bad owner, didn't care for your dog's safety, or that you would toss your pet aside.

What I said was what I would do personally for *my dog's* safety. I also think I said it rather politely and with no reason to take offense.

I think most of the posts here were quite polite considering this is a very serious subject most people have strong opinions on. Sometimes we get offended because the responses we hear are not the ones we're looking for. I think no one has been even mildly offensive here. People stating that they didn't think it was fair for you to give away your current dog to a relative if something happened between two males (because you *prefer* a male over a female)... well that's just plain true. It would not be fair.

Also, please keep in mind that we hear the same inquiries day in and day out. We are met with some success when trying to help people but when you answer the same question dozens of times and people still go and do what they want... well sometimes courtesy goes out the window. It's not personal and please do not take it that way. All anyone here wants is the best for your dogs... current and future.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:32 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I bought Buddy at 16 weeks old wanted a good temperament which he has the Service Dog school here would not take him because he is a Doberman just thought I would let you know in advance what happened to me.Buddy is just a pet will be 5 years old at the end of the month.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:36 AM   #24 (permalink)
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You have to be prepared at all times! I have FOUR males, 3 dobermans and one of another large breed. TWO are altered (9 & 8) , TWO are not (7 & 5) . They sleep together, go out together and are not separated with the exception of when I leave, In that case one of the unaltered males is crated. I have little doubt that if left to their own devices for any period of time they could indulge in unacceptable behavior. And that is not a chance that I am willing to take. They are never confined, rotated or separated when I am home. Two of the males go everywhere with me when the weather is suitable and will sit quietly in the back of the car. I should add that they are trained, respect my authority as I will not tolerate any nonsnese. It is mandatory to know your dogs and their temperment and reaction to stimuli. Perhaps not the ideal situation for many but it has been and can be done. It requiress diligence. There was a thread posted for multiple males which was very informative and allows an individual to make up their own mind.

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Old 04-02-2012, 07:19 AM   #25 (permalink)
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KCmetric - No one can make the decision for you but remember when reading Dobebug's post, she states she has had 50 years of experience with the Doberman breed and multiple males. That makes a vast difference in managing any household of dogs, especially a household of males involving Dobermans.

I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong though) that you don't have any Dobe experience and that will put you at a natural disadvantage trying to monitor and manage potential same-sex aggression issues. And I cringe at the thought of what damage could be done to an Aussie if there ever were a fight.

I'm curious though, are males perhaps better suited to service work than females? Or is it just your personal preference as to what sex of dog you own? (Not picking on you. I don't know and I'm just asking. I've never dealt with service dogs.)

If I were in your situation, I'd go with a female Dobe just to ensure keeping the peace at home with your current male. I have 2 dogs and I can't imagine giving one up or crating and rotating. I actually hate the idea of crating and rotating more than giving one back to their breeder. At least if one went to a new home hopefully they'd be given all the love and attention they deserve but it would break my heart to have to keep one or the other shut away in a crate at any given time.

That would be the main motivation for my decision. I'd do whatever I had to so I could keep all my pets happy and with me.
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