Absolutely excellent article on littermate syndrome - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums

Puppy Corner Everything Puppy related goes here

DobermanTalk.com is the premier Doberman Dog Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-30-2012, 09:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,778
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Shanoa; Richter (Glengate's Mountain Fortress); RIP Simon
Titles: CGC, Daddy's herzhund; best puppy ever
Dogs Age: d.o.b 11/28/2008; d.o.b. 7/13/2012
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 23,529
Thanked 24,958 Times in 7,296 Posts
Images: 1
MeadowCat has a reputation beyond reputeMeadowCat has a reputation beyond reputeMeadowCat has a reputation beyond reputeMeadowCat has a reputation beyond reputeMeadowCat has a reputation beyond reputeMeadowCat has a reputation beyond reputeMeadowCat has a reputation beyond reputeMeadowCat has a reputation beyond reputeMeadowCat has a reputation beyond reputeMeadowCat has a reputation beyond reputeMeadowCat has a reputation beyond repute
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Absolutely excellent article on littermate syndrome

Below is an article written by my trainer on littermate syndrome. I thought it was great, so I'm sharing it. You can find the original here: Littermate Syndrome | Paws Abilities

_________________
Getting two dogs at the same time seems like a great idea. Dogs are social animals, and a dog who will be alone all day can easily turn to destructive behavior or become anxious. Two puppies can entertain each other and keep each other company. So, what’s the problem with bringing home two puppies at once?

Professional trainers like myself recommend against getting bringing home two puppies. While this sounds like a good plan in theory, in practice it often causes quite a bit of heartache and trouble.

In addition to the problems one might expect with bringing home siblings such as double food and vet costs and double the potty training work, we need to focus on how the puppies will develop. Puppies’ brains continue developing until they hit sexual maturity (and even a bit beyond that), and there’s some convincing research out there that bringing two puppies home at the same time prevents one of the puppies from reaching his or her full potential.

Luckily for us, this topic has been researched extensively by someone who knows all about creating behaviorally sound puppies: guide dog organizations. One of the biggest problems that guide dog organizations run into is that puppy raisers are hard to come by. Puppy raisers are families who agree to raise future guide dog puppies, socializing them and teaching them basic obedience. This isn’t an easy job, and the emotional impact of giving up their puppies after a year of bonding and hard work means that many families are reluctant to repeat the experience.

In order to maximize the use of their volunteer puppy raisers, one guide dog organization decided to try an experiment. Willing homes were given not one, but two puppies to raise, thereby doubling the number of puppies the guide dog organization could work with. Puppies born to these organizations are tested before being placed and are tracked throughout their growth and development. What the organization found was startling. Placing two puppies in the same household always caused one puppy to become temperamentally unsuitable for work, even when both puppies started off as perfect candidates.

When two puppies are placed together, they learn to rely on each other. One of the puppies always becomes shy, even when both puppies started off as bold and outgoing. This is a huge problem, since it means that the shy puppy never reaches his or her potential. In fact, this was such a major issue that the guide dog experiment was quickly halted, and to this day guide dog organizations only place one puppy at a time in puppy raisers’ homes, even when the homes are highly experienced.

In addition to one puppy becoming shy, there are other behavioral implications for two puppies who are adopted at the same time. Oftentimes even the “bold” puppy turns out to be quite nervous and uncertain when separated from his or her littermate. Furthermore, the puppies frequently become incredibly co-dependent, exhibiting heartbreaking anxiety when separated from one another. They often fail to bond to their human family as strongly as they otherwise would, or sometimes at all. At social maturity, these puppies may begin fighting with one another, sometimes quite severely.

Even puppies who are not related can exhibit littermate syndrome when placed together. Professional trainers recommend against getting two puppies within six months of one another, because the risks are just too high. This doesn’t even take into consideration the other practical considerations, such as the increased costs of vet care, food, supplies, and training; the extra work of training and caring for two dogs; or the time requirements of two active puppies.

Can littermate syndrome be prevented? Theoretically, yes, however it’s so difficult as to be nearly impossible in practice. Remember, even experienced guide dog puppy raisers aren’t expected to be able to prevent this issue from developing. At a bare minimum, the two puppies would need to be crated and cared for separately, including separate walks, training classes, and playtime with their owners. The puppies need to have more one-on-one time with their new owners than they have with each other, effectively doubling the work and negating any of the possible benefits (i.e. companionship) that they were adopted together for in the first place.

The bottom line is that puppies do best when brought home separately. If you want multiple dogs, consider purchasing or adopting adult dogs who are already done developing instead.
__________________

Richter & Shanoa

“The dog is the most faithful of animals and would be much esteemed were it not so common.
Our Lord God has made His greatest gifts the commonest.”
― Martin Luther
MeadowCat is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Apr 2009
The Following 27 Users Say Thank You to MeadowCat For This Useful Post:
*Wrigley* (11-09-2012), 2dobies (03-30-2012), Abby (04-24-2012), alwayshadpets (09-19-2012), Asmit (03-30-2012), Baptis Ridge Dobermans (07-29-2012), Beaumont67 (03-30-2012), Brandy&Melanie (05-22-2012), brw1982 (03-30-2012), Darkevs (03-30-2012), dax0402 (03-31-2012), dobey12 (11-09-2012), Fitzmar Dobermans (11-09-2012), Incredibledobe (03-30-2012), interrobang (09-24-2012), Lady Kate (02-24-2013), longshot4me (03-30-2012), melbrod (03-30-2012), Mellonnew (12-19-2012), natizzfarouk (05-08-2013), newdobeowner (02-21-2013), odiakkoh (11-09-2012), Patches Mom (11-10-2012), Rosemary (03-30-2012), RushFit (08-01-2012), StellarKarma (11-28-2012), the_discowhore (09-18-2012)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-30-2012, 10:12 AM   #2 (permalink)
joie de vivre
 
brw1982's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,995
Location: Missouri
Dogs Name: Fiona & Tali
Titles: Fiona: CGC; Tali: CGC
Dogs Age: 4.21.09, 5.09.08
Gallery Pics: 9
Visit brw1982's Gallery
Thanks: 45,211
Thanked 27,098 Times in 7,844 Posts
Images: 9
brw1982 has a reputation beyond reputebrw1982 has a reputation beyond reputebrw1982 has a reputation beyond reputebrw1982 has a reputation beyond reputebrw1982 has a reputation beyond reputebrw1982 has a reputation beyond reputebrw1982 has a reputation beyond reputebrw1982 has a reputation beyond reputebrw1982 has a reputation beyond reputebrw1982 has a reputation beyond reputebrw1982 has a reputation beyond repute
Click here to find out how brw1982 became a supporter
Great info! Thanks for sharing!!
__________________


Old Drum's Crimson Crisp, "Fiona"
Old Drum's Fiery Rumors of Taliesin, "Tali"
brw1982 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Apr 2009
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to brw1982 For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (03-30-2012), Brandy&Melanie (05-22-2012), Darkevs (03-31-2012)
Old 03-30-2012, 10:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
Owned by Dobes since 1975
 
Darkevs's Avatar
 
Posts: 25,013
Location: BC, Canada!
Dogs Name: Pearl and Charlie
Titles: BPBIH, BMC, BDIH, BND!
Dogs Age: 9 and 3
Gallery Pics: 46
Visit Darkevs's Gallery
Thanks: 65,364
Thanked 34,331 Times in 14,806 Posts
Images: 46
Darkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond reputeDarkevs has a reputation beyond repute
information like this should really be stickied here on DT.

so many need to read it.
__________________

Thanks for making this signature for me Amelia!
Darkevs is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2007
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Darkevs For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (03-30-2012), Brandy&Melanie (09-18-2012)
Old 03-30-2012, 06:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
Alpha
 
Whiskey's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,504
Location: Trancendental plane of awesome.
Dogs Name: Whiskey
Dogs Age: D.O.B. July 1, 2011
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Whiskey's Gallery
Thanks: 2,625
Thanked 3,192 Times in 1,056 Posts
Whiskey has a reputation beyond reputeWhiskey has a reputation beyond reputeWhiskey has a reputation beyond reputeWhiskey has a reputation beyond reputeWhiskey has a reputation beyond reputeWhiskey has a reputation beyond reputeWhiskey has a reputation beyond reputeWhiskey has a reputation beyond reputeWhiskey has a reputation beyond reputeWhiskey has a reputation beyond reputeWhiskey has a reputation beyond repute
Click here to find out how Whiskey became a supporter
I think it should be stickied as well. It's amazing how many people think they're doing the right thing by their puppy by getting a sibling with it.

I had always heard it was good to get two puppies at the same time so they wouldn't be lonely. However, after working with many dogs that are siblings during grooming I have absolutely seen some of these issues first hand. I've yet to see a set of littermates where at least one wasn't somewhat neurotic.. especially when separated from their sibling.
Whiskey is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Aug 2011
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Whiskey For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (03-30-2012), Darkevs (03-31-2012)
Old 03-30-2012, 06:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
Back Off
 
Asmit's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,561
Location: Knoxville, TN
Dogs Name: Zeus
Titles: Zeus:CGC TDI BH Argo: CGC BH
Dogs Age: 5
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Asmit's Gallery
Thanks: 3,279
Thanked 3,880 Times in 1,209 Posts
Asmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond reputeAsmit has a reputation beyond repute
Great article! More like this need to be 'stickyed' on here.

Its side though that despite someone reading this and us telling them about this and other studies, they can read this article and think "Oh, that won't happen to me!"

Hopefully it'll help others though!
Asmit is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Nov 2011
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Asmit For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (03-30-2012), Darkevs (03-31-2012)
Old 09-18-2012, 11:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
Lil Pup
 
bladecutter_ph's Avatar
 
Posts: 5
Location: Las Pinas City, Philippines
Dogs Name: Bruno, Steph
Titles: None
Dogs Age: 6 months
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit bladecutter_ph's Gallery
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bladecutter_ph is on a distinguished road
OMG I just read the article and never occured to me I would experience same problems. I just got 2 litters - steph n bruno, both 5 months old and are more than a month with me now. They are showing agression when they are walked together, sometimes barking at each other at a distance. Fighting happens once in a while. They are in separate cages but they can see each other. The male dobe shows aggression and dominance. The female litter is more submissive and restive compared to the male dobe. I know I got the puppies too late (5 months and ears not cropped) but I'm beginning to wonder if I will proceed having them together. The first 3 days was a nightmare - we couldnt sleep due to the male litter's excessive barking. It's more contain now. After reading this article - I should perhaps decide soonest. The breeder wasn't aware too. I beginning to love them both, especially the male litter, Bruno. Aren't they adorable? Huhuhu.
Attached Thumbnails
Absolutely excellent article on littermate syndrome-bruno-n-steph.jpg  
bladecutter_ph is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2012
Old 11-09-2012, 05:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
Big Pup
 
Posts: 49
Location: UK
Dogs Name: Dixie and Trixie
Titles: no
Dogs Age: 18 months
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit dobey12's Gallery
Thanks: 41
Thanked 38 Times in 22 Posts
Images: 4
dobey12 has a spectacular aura aboutdobey12 has a spectacular aura aboutdobey12 has a spectacular aura about
very interesting reading, since exercising my 2 separately and feeding them separately they have improved seven fold, much calmer, the boy one was the runt of the pack so to speak when we got him and was and still is timid, the girl found me so to speak and is the boss so much better just 24 hours later thanks for all advice given
dobey12 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: May 2011
Old 11-09-2012, 07:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
Alpha
 
SpecialK's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,717
Location: NW suburbs, IL
Dogs Name: Bruda Weekend Warrior, aka "Rowan"; Bruda Pure Seduction, aka "Monroe"
Titles: UKC Ch, CGC, TDI; AKC S.T.A.R. Puppy
Dogs Age: DOB 2/11/11; DOB 12/12/12
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit SpecialK's Gallery
Thanks: 3,869
Thanked 4,441 Times in 1,163 Posts
SpecialK has a reputation beyond reputeSpecialK has a reputation beyond reputeSpecialK has a reputation beyond reputeSpecialK has a reputation beyond reputeSpecialK has a reputation beyond reputeSpecialK has a reputation beyond reputeSpecialK has a reputation beyond reputeSpecialK has a reputation beyond reputeSpecialK has a reputation beyond reputeSpecialK has a reputation beyond reputeSpecialK has a reputation beyond repute
Click here to find out how SpecialK became a supporter
Great article...thanks! I think I will share with my foster group.
__________________


"A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself." --Josh Billings


UKC Ch. Bruda Weekend Warrior, TT, CGC, TDI "Rowan"
Bruda Pure Seduction, S.T.A.R. Puppy "Monroe"
SpecialK is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Feb 2011
Old 11-10-2012, 02:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
Alpha
 
odiakkoh's Avatar
 
Posts: 717
Location: Sacramento, CA

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit odiakkoh's Gallery
Thanks: 1,011
Thanked 1,131 Times in 458 Posts
odiakkoh has a reputation beyond reputeodiakkoh has a reputation beyond reputeodiakkoh has a reputation beyond reputeodiakkoh has a reputation beyond reputeodiakkoh has a reputation beyond reputeodiakkoh has a reputation beyond reputeodiakkoh has a reputation beyond reputeodiakkoh has a reputation beyond reputeodiakkoh has a reputation beyond reputeodiakkoh has a reputation beyond reputeodiakkoh has a reputation beyond repute
Seems like this thread needs a bump today.


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App
odiakkoh is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Aug 2011
The Following User Says Thank You to odiakkoh For This Useful Post:
the_discowhore (11-10-2012)
Old 02-24-2013, 08:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
Alpha
 
Beaumont67's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,431
Location: St. Thomas, Ontario
Dogs Name: Kelly
Titles: CD Obedience & Therapy
Dogs Age: puppy
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Beaumont67's Gallery
Thanks: 24,233
Thanked 7,852 Times in 3,311 Posts
Beaumont67 has a reputation beyond reputeBeaumont67 has a reputation beyond reputeBeaumont67 has a reputation beyond reputeBeaumont67 has a reputation beyond reputeBeaumont67 has a reputation beyond reputeBeaumont67 has a reputation beyond reputeBeaumont67 has a reputation beyond reputeBeaumont67 has a reputation beyond reputeBeaumont67 has a reputation beyond reputeBeaumont67 has a reputation beyond reputeBeaumont67 has a reputation beyond repute
Great article MeadowCat, an easy read that makes total sense.

Several years ago, I trained 2 boxer pups once a week from 8 weeks old, for less than a few months, instilling off-leash perimeter control & general commands - one pup was actually their sons, and was there most of the time.
The couple was a dog food customer of mine, so for the next few years I got to see the adult dog interactions, in the family house.

Somewhat neurotic...always came into my mind when I entered their front door, and saw the big dogs.
The pair came to me easily as I always had a large bag of kibble over my shoulder, but soon the dogs were happy just fighting constantly on the couch. The owners thought this non-stop out-of-control together activity was cute (human bond noticeably lacking IMO),
I though the two would quickly drive me nuts - littermates...no thanks.
__________________
------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

Last edited by Beaumont67; 02-24-2013 at 09:03 AM..
Beaumont67 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: May 2011
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:22 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0 Beta 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.
@2005 - 2008 DobermanTalk.com
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42