What do you wish you knew when you first got your pup? - Page 2 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Puppy Corner Everything Puppy related goes here

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-06-2012, 09:36 AM
Big Dog
 
Pack_Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 118
Location: NC
Dogs Name: Ramsey
Dogs Age: 14 weeks
Gallery Pics: 8
Visit Pack_Leader's Gallery
Thanks: 43
Thanked 137 Times in 62 Posts
Images: 8
           
I have only had my dobie a week... i can already attest all the above is true.
Pack_Leader is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Pack_Leader For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (01-07-2012), Brandy&Melanie (12-19-2012), HerMewMew (01-06-2012), KissNme (01-08-2012)
post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-06-2012, 10:38 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 716
Location: Melbourne Florida
Dogs Name: Kira Hime & Mako of Awesome
Titles: not yet :0) & Snake Killer, mommy protector
Dogs Age: 3yrs. in December & 6 years in October
Gallery Pics: 34
Visit HerMewMew's Gallery
Thanks: 2,711
Thanked 942 Times in 420 Posts
Images: 34
                     
On a little different direction, I wish I would have known that other dogs would come running at us and try or actually attack my Doberman! Very scary

I also agree with all of the above!

I would like to add I wish I would have known how much I would love her! She's made me a much happier woman and has taught my daughter a valuable lesson on being responsiable to a living creature.

"I have a Doberman, and I'm not afraid to use it!"
HerMewMew is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to HerMewMew For This Useful Post:
achiever (01-07-2012), Beaumont67 (01-07-2012), Brandy&Melanie (12-19-2012), KissNme (01-08-2012)
post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-06-2012, 10:39 PM
Big Pup
 
SugarLu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 39
Location: WA
Dogs Name: Quinn (Quinndle)
Titles: my heart....
Dogs Age: Sept. 2010
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit SugarLu's Gallery
Thanks: 98
Thanked 43 Times in 24 Posts
Images: 1
     
I too wish I had found a ETHICAL breeder. I wish I had done more research and then done some more.
I wish I would have found this forum before I was introduced to Lynn at Guradians N Angels.
I wish I would have not been so trusting.
I wish that all potential DOberman owners find this forum first........
SugarLu is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SugarLu For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (01-07-2012), Brandy&Melanie (12-19-2012), HerMewMew (01-07-2012)
post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
BYB Hunter
 
Brandy&Melanie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Dogs Name: Ch Gentry's Pretty in Pink: "Molly", and Gentry's Brandy Alexander: "Brandy" CGN (RIP)
Titles: CGN (Brandy), CH (Molly)
Dogs Age: 1 year, and 2 years (RIP)
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit Brandy&Melanie's Gallery
Thanks: 8,692
Thanked 2,316 Times in 645 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how Brandy&Melanie became a supporter
Yes I just got her on Wednesday, and you are right about the WHINING!! If I go to the bathroom with the door closed, whine whine whine whine! If I leave her in her crate for ten minutes, whine whine whine whine WHINE WHINE.. little bit of silence.. WHINE WHINE WHINE! But I guess that is normal hah!

"Whenever I hear somebody talk about a horse being stupid, I figure it's a sure sign that the animal has somehow outfoxed them."
- Tom Dorrance

RIP Grandma Lois; the Doberman world will never be the same..


Doberman Club of Canada:
www.dpcc.ca
Brandy&Melanie is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Brandy&Melanie For This Useful Post:
Beaumont67 (01-07-2012), HerMewMew (01-07-2012)
post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 06:12 PM
Alpha
 
Beaumont67's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,765
Location: St. Thomas, Ontario
Dogs Name: Kelly
Titles: CD Obedience & Therapy
Dogs Age: puppy
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Beaumont67's Gallery
Thanks: 38,045
Thanked 13,338 Times in 5,252 Posts
                     
My 1st dobe had a bad habit of running back & force and paws up on the package tray of my 1967 Beaumont (Canadian Chevelle).
- she broke the rear seat springs, and her antics drove us insane...riding with her
Next dog was made to curl up or lay down or sit staying put, in a vehicle.
(still allow moving from front to back, or vise-versa...but no out-of-control behavior)

First dobe was a bed hog / next dobe was not allowed to steal the sleeping space.

Learn as much training as possible, with the 1st dog.
- practice consistency & flawless timing...these new skills, you will enjoy for a life time

And finally - your 1st puppy, will confirm your suspicion...the dobe breed, is the very best !!

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

Last edited by Beaumont67; 01-07-2012 at 06:15 PM.
Beaumont67 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Beaumont67 For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (01-07-2012), Dakotadobe (01-08-2012), HerMewMew (01-07-2012), KissNme (01-08-2012)
post #31 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 07:44 PM
Lil Dog
 
Ashlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 73
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Shiza, Diezel, and Doom
Dogs Age: Shiza & Diezel 3yrs, Doom 6yrs
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit Ashlee's Gallery
Thanks: 119
Thanked 147 Times in 46 Posts
Images: 3
             
I wish I would have known all of these things...plus I wish I would have known how rancid their farts r


\m/ "Project Mayhem" \m/
Red Dragons
Ashlee is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Ashlee For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (01-07-2012), HerMewMew (01-07-2012), Kekly (11-17-2012), usmclove (12-18-2012)
post #32 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
BYB Hunter
 
Brandy&Melanie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Dogs Name: Ch Gentry's Pretty in Pink: "Molly", and Gentry's Brandy Alexander: "Brandy" CGN (RIP)
Titles: CGN (Brandy), CH (Molly)
Dogs Age: 1 year, and 2 years (RIP)
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit Brandy&Melanie's Gallery
Thanks: 8,692
Thanked 2,316 Times in 645 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how Brandy&Melanie became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashlee View Post
I wish I would have known all of these things...plus I wish I would have known how rancid their farts r
I AGREE! Hahahaha Doberfarts!

"Whenever I hear somebody talk about a horse being stupid, I figure it's a sure sign that the animal has somehow outfoxed them."
- Tom Dorrance

RIP Grandma Lois; the Doberman world will never be the same..


Doberman Club of Canada:
www.dpcc.ca
Brandy&Melanie is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Brandy&Melanie For This Useful Post:
HerMewMew (01-07-2012), Kekly (11-17-2012), usmclove (12-18-2012)
post #33 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 09:05 PM
Big Dog
 
TaniaShari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 106
Location: BC
Dogs Name: Tia and RIP Jazz
Titles: no
Dogs Age: 7
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit TaniaShari's Gallery
Thanks: 193
Thanked 170 Times in 84 Posts
Images: 2
             
I wish I would've known all the previously things mentioned plus, Never leave the dog in the same room as the recycling bag....
(I know....very dangerous...could've swallowed everything...I only did this once...he sure taught me!)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bad.jazz.shred.recyle.jpg
Views:	235
Size:	86.6 KB
ID:	16024  
TaniaShari is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TaniaShari For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (01-07-2012), HerMewMew (01-07-2012)
post #34 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 10:29 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 716
Location: Melbourne Florida
Dogs Name: Kira Hime & Mako of Awesome
Titles: not yet :0) & Snake Killer, mommy protector
Dogs Age: 3yrs. in December & 6 years in October
Gallery Pics: 34
Visit HerMewMew's Gallery
Thanks: 2,711
Thanked 942 Times in 420 Posts
Images: 34
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandy&Allison View Post
Yes I just got her on Wednesday, and you are right about the WHINING!! If I go to the bathroom with the door closed, whine whine whine whine! If I leave her in her crate for ten minutes, whine whine whine whine WHINE WHINE.. little bit of silence.. WHINE WHINE WHINE! But I guess that is normal hah!
I haven't gotten to close the bathroom door for almost 1 year now!!!

AND apparently it's not a whine.... IT'S a WHISTLE ha ha ha

"I have a Doberman, and I'm not afraid to use it!"
HerMewMew is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to HerMewMew For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (11-06-2012)
post #35 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 11:45 PM
sandy2233
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,216
Location: Wyoming
Dogs Name: SE
Titles: Not Yet
Dogs Age: March 12, 2015
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit sandy2233's Gallery
Thanks: 4,078
Thanked 2,688 Times in 1,492 Posts
                     
Click here to find out how sandy2233 became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandy&Allison View Post
I AGREE! Hahahaha Doberfarts!
Hee Hee Hee! They're just down right WICKED!
sandy2233 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to sandy2233 For This Useful Post:
HerMewMew (01-08-2012)
post #36 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 11:56 PM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 468
Location: Miami, FL
Dogs Name: Daisy/Calvin
Titles: none
Dogs Age: 01/12/09; 12/1/10
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit NAA2586's Gallery
Thanks: 215
Thanked 418 Times in 233 Posts
                     
Lots of barking; sensitive skin; lots of energy (I mean lots!); more shedding than I thought; love for rough play.

NAA2586 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to NAA2586 For This Useful Post:
KissNme (01-08-2012)
post #37 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 05:16 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,848
Location: Lansing, Kansas
Dogs Name: KISS
Titles: No
Dogs Age: 3 years old
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit KissNme's Gallery
Thanks: 7,281
Thanked 1,567 Times in 983 Posts
Images: 4
                     
Ah BRW how very well put. And the one about not letting them do stuff while they're little, etc. Yes, training training, starting training earlier.
I also wish I'd known how completely in LOVE I would end up being with this fur kid!
KissNme is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to KissNme For This Useful Post:
HerMewMew (01-08-2012)
post #38 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 07:22 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 716
Location: Melbourne Florida
Dogs Name: Kira Hime & Mako of Awesome
Titles: not yet :0) & Snake Killer, mommy protector
Dogs Age: 3yrs. in December & 6 years in October
Gallery Pics: 34
Visit HerMewMew's Gallery
Thanks: 2,711
Thanked 942 Times in 420 Posts
Images: 34
                     
Everynight she sleeps wraped up in my arms & either her face ontop of mine or mine ontop of hers During the night she'll usually roll over and spoon with my husband too!!! She's a huge blanket/bed hog, middle spot thief

"I have a Doberman, and I'm not afraid to use it!"
HerMewMew is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to HerMewMew For This Useful Post:
Kekly (11-17-2012), TaniaShari (01-12-2012)
post #39 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 08:30 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Sweden

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Jones's Gallery
Thanks: 120
Thanked 411 Times in 157 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds View Post
I wish I'd known that owning just one doberman is never enough!
Haha awesome comment
Jones is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Jones For This Useful Post:
HerMewMew (01-09-2012)
post #40 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 09:02 AM
Alpha
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,792
Location: Kansas City area
Dogs Name: AmCh Brykris Meet Joe Black, AmCh Brykris Right on the Money, & Brykris She's One in a Million
Titles: CEO's of the Spoiled Rotten Club

Gallery Pics: 5
Visit KCFilley's Gallery
Thanks: 3,785
Thanked 3,701 Times in 1,462 Posts
Images: 5
                     
Click here to find out how KCFilley became a supporter
I wish I had known how often I have to do their nails to keep them really good and short. Like every three or four days on the red heads and maybe four to five on the blacks. Wish I had known a trim carpenter to get the wood base trim replaced when Taylor chewed it up. Wish I knew a good sheetrocker to replace the corners when the girls race over each other to get outside.

If ya git ta thinkin' yer a person of some influence, try orderin' my dogs around. Cowgirl wisdom.

Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
KCFilley is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to KCFilley For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (01-08-2012), HerMewMew (01-09-2012), Rallypup87 (11-18-2012)
post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-09-2012, 09:48 AM
Lil Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 70
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit rise's Gallery
Thanks: 25
Thanked 186 Times in 50 Posts
               
My dobe is 4.5 months. I can't say there is much I wish I would have known - in fact I started a thread identical to this one a few months back and got lots of this good advice So I would say I was well prepared. Things I am GLAD I knew?
- I am glad I knew to crate train him, even though he was pathetic and whiny at first. Now he crates like a dream.
- I am glad I was prepared about how much attention he would need, and how much supervision he would require. He is under the hawkish watch of either me or my spouse at all times.
- I am glad I knew about quality dog foods, and the price of feeding him well.
- I am glad I have such a flexible work schedule and have been able to spend so much quality time with him.
- I am glad I read up on positive training - it is so different than previous methods used when I had my last pup 15 years ago.
- I am glad this board made me aware of safe chews and toys vs unsafe ones - saved me from expensive mistakes. When I got my lab 15 years ago rawhides and nylabones were thought to be safe. Now I know what a choking and obstruction hazard they can be. Instead I stocked up on bully sticks, kongs, deer antlers and stuffing free animals that he gets when supervised.
- of course I am glad this board and other sites taught me about good vs bad breeders before I got my guy

Ok Ok, so maybe there are a few things I wish I had known -
- I wish I had been prepared for house breaking him. He peed and drank water ALL THE TIME for the first month. I thought something might be wrong with him. It was so frustrating to take him outside, he would pee, then we would come back inside and 3 minutes later he would pee again. I underestimated how small his bladder was. At about 3.5 months that stopped and almost over night he was house broken. If I had known some dogs were just this way I would have made sure to replace my carpet with tile BEFORE getting him.
- I wish I had realized how old my lab was. I knew she was old but felt the pup would help liven her back up. Watching her with him, though, and I realize she is just really really old. We have to keep them separated most of the time because he is just too rough with her. Xpens are our friend, and we have a couple of them that we use to gate off various spots in the house to keep him from pestering her too much.
rise is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to rise For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (01-09-2012), HerMewMew (01-09-2012), KoaRad (01-09-2012), MeadowCat (01-09-2012)
post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-10-2012, 12:02 AM
Big Pup
 
Sylvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 43
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Dogs Name: Portia
Dogs Age: 4 years
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit Sylvs's Gallery
Thanks: 52
Thanked 100 Times in 21 Posts
           
Despite the formal obedience training from 9 weeks and everything else more/ less by 'the book':
- I wish I spent more time on leash walking training
- I wish I focus more on 'bum on the floor when greeting ppl'
- I with I heard about crate games by Susan Garrett - create breaking would be so much easier!!!
- I wish I knew that natural ears can go 'bonkers' after teething and would start taping them down early
- I wish I knew how fast they grow - would have taken tones more pics and cuddled her even harder!!
Sylvs is offline  
post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-11-2012, 06:25 PM
Big Pup
 
DonutDobie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Oklahoma
Dogs Name: Jackson
Dogs Age: under 6 months
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit DonutDobie's Gallery
Thanks: 4
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Images: 4
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
How much and how often they need to pee. I would have gotten each of mine in the summertime so I could get outside fast with a leaking puppy--no coat and boots and mittens...........
/\ this /\
DonutDobie is offline  
post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-11-2012, 06:33 PM
Big Pup
 
DonutDobie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Oklahoma
Dogs Name: Jackson
Dogs Age: under 6 months
Gallery Pics: 4
Visit DonutDobie's Gallery
Thanks: 4
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Images: 4
 
I wish I had known how ornery he would be. If I had known I would've let my 9year old lab mix have her way with him from day one. I protected the boy for some reason, he seemed so sweet and vulnerable.. whatever, the boy is now 6 months old and running the poor girl ragged!! He just doesn't stop!!!

Oh, I'm glad I knew nothing because it might've scared me from getting the sweet kid..
DonutDobie is offline  
post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-12-2012, 12:20 AM
tjj
Lil Pup
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2
Dogs Name: Tell us your dogs name

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit tjj's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pack_Leader View Post
I have only had my dobie a week... i can already attest all the above is true.
Can anyone recommend a quality and ethical breeder?
tjj is offline  
post #46 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-12-2012, 12:25 AM
Alpha
 
RottenVonSpotten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,437
Dogs Name: Zambezi (Cane Corso); Otto (RIP)

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit RottenVonSpotten's Gallery
Thanks: 8,441
Thanked 6,622 Times in 1,973 Posts
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjj View Post
Can anyone recommend a quality and ethical breeder?
Check this out:
DPCA | The Doberman | Breeder Referral

And use this to narrow down your choices:
Reputable breeders - for new folks
RottenVonSpotten is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to RottenVonSpotten For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (12-19-2012)
post #47 of 53 (permalink) Old 01-12-2012, 08:59 AM
Super Moderator
 
MeadowCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 15,962
Location: MN
Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CA, L1V, NW1, WAC
Dogs Age: d.o.b. 7/13/2012; d.o.b. 12/6/2015
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit MeadowCat's Gallery
Thanks: 40,765
Thanked 45,725 Times in 12,578 Posts
Images: 1
                     
Click here to find out how MeadowCat became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjj View Post
Can anyone recommend a quality and ethical breeder?
tjj, you'll get a better response on this by starting a new thread in the "Breeding and Breeders" section with your general location and that you are looking for a breeder.


SigPic
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CA L1V NW1 WAC & Sirai's Golden Masquerade
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.”
― Jane Goodall
MeadowCat is offline  
post #48 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 06:37 AM
Alpha
 
Kekly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 289
Dogs Name: Ginger & Sampson
Dogs Age: 2 1/2 yrs., 8 months
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit Kekly's Gallery
Thanks: 358
Thanked 290 Times in 128 Posts
Images: 2
                   
I know I am late to this post, but I wish I would have known how jealous of attention they can be, that at 80+ lbs, they think they are lap dogs, that you are not allowed to have covers or a pillow at night (its theirs) and how much wet nose goo you will have to wear daily!
Kekly is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Kekly For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (12-19-2012)
post #49 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 08:06 AM
Mo's Mom
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 904
Location: Hudson Valley NY
Dogs Name: Mariano (Mo)
Dogs Age: June 26th 2012
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit kpal4978's Gallery
Thanks: 430
Thanked 1,251 Times in 416 Posts
                     
My boy is almost 5 months, and all of the above is TRUE TRUE TRUE.

I wish I had really taken the term dobergoat seriously... I have had puppies who like to chew on things, but NOTHING like the way my Mariano does. Any and everything that fits (or almost kind of fits) gets chewed.

I also wish I had known how smart and stubborn he is. Posting his ears has been an nightmare, but unluckily for him, mama is just as stubborn.

The final thing I wish I would have done is made the cat more of a no no... he knows he is not supposed to chase her, but he still does...
kpal4978 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to kpal4978 For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (12-19-2012)
post #50 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 09:17 AM
Alpha
 
dobermama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 828
Location: WV
Dogs Name: Remington
Dogs Age: 3 yr
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit dobermama's Gallery
Thanks: 630
Thanked 2,371 Times in 675 Posts
Images: 2
                     
I wish I had known how common it is to lose our Dobermans far too soon. I KNEW about the health issues common to the breed of course, but I guess I just didn't really get how many die before age 9 (I lost my boy at 8.5). It didn't stop me from getting another Dobe, but it could have helped me prepare a bit better for the sudden loss...

I was used to large breeds (Rott, German Shepherd) who have major health problems too, but quite commonly live into their teens...
dobermama is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
The Following User Says Thank You to dobermama For This Useful Post:
Brandy&Melanie (12-19-2012)
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome