devil puppy !!! - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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devil puppy !!!

Hi, I'd like some advice. I've had dogs my whole life but I've never had so much trouble with a dog. She is a very sweet and affectionate 4 month old puppy, but we cannot house train her, she shreds everything, will not come when she's called, steals food out of my 3 year old granddaughters hands, eats toys, digs and generally disrespects us. She sleeps in a crate at night and can 'hold it' all night long, and she's very bright because she learned how to sit and shake in one try, but she is a devil. Has anyone advice on possibly medicating her? a shock collar? I realize dobermans are high energy, and we have 4 acres for her to run, but then she comes in the house and pees and poops wherever she pleases. And she knows it's wrong because she then runs away from me. I am at my wits end! Please help.
thanks,
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 09:57 AM
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Welcome to DT. Quite frankly, she sounds like a perfectly normal high energy puppy to me.

House training: She has a crate, so use it. If you aren't able to be right on top of her, she needs to be in her crate. Take her out as soon as she wakes up from a nap, after she eats, after she takes a big drink, after she's been playing for a while, and every 20 to 30 minutes just because. Put a leash on her, take her to where you'd like for her to potty, use a cue word or phrase (I use "hurry" or "hurry up") and once she pees or poops, throw a party. Also, give her a few more minutes outside as some puppies need to go twice to be completely "empty".

Shreds everything: See crate reference, above. Provide lots of safe, approved chewing choices, and redirect, redirect, redirect.

Not coming when called: She's not trained yet, and it's unreasonable to expect a four month old pup to have a reliable recall. A good, positive based trainer can help teach you recall games that will make her recall more reliable. One thing. Never, EVER call her to you to scold her for something she did while she wasn't right in front of you. No matter what they were doing, coming to you is the best thing ever.

Stealing food from the toddler's hands: See crate referenced above. When the human child is eating, the puppy should be crated. Even a well trained dog can be tempted by a PB&J sandwich being waved around right at nose height, so expecting a baby puppy to show restraint in that type of situation in expecting too much.

Eats toys: Don't give her toys that she can destroy, or else use them only under supervision. Surgery to remove bits and pieces from puppy innards are expensive and risky.

Digs: Redirect, redirect, redirect. Designating one spot as "acceptable for digging" or even building a digging pit might be an option, since you have a fair amount of land to work with.

Generally "disrespects" you: Umm... she's a four month old puppy who needs some training. Do you think that your three year old grandchild "disrespects" you by acting like three year old human?

Medication: She's a four month old puppy. She needs training and mental and physical stimulation, not medication.

Shock collar: See previous comment. E-collars might have their place in the pantheon of dog training options, but around the neck of a four month old puppy isn't that place.

Knows she's done something wrong: Um, no, actually she doesn't. All she knows is that you are mad about something, and doesn't want to hang around.

A good, positive based trainer can help with pretty much all the "problems" you are having with her. And they aren't even really "problems", just puppyhood.


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Last edited by Rosemary; 05-19-2017 at 10:05 AM. Reason: typo
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:00 AM
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Sounds pretty typical for a Dobe pup lol.

Absolutely not to e-collar and meds. She is a baby.

How have you been training her since day 1? Hard to help without more info.

Is she on a rope at all times? What are you doing when all these episodes happen?

I also have a 4 month old pup and he has his moments no doubt but we have been diligent since the first day he came home and for the most part he is very good.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktyler View Post
Hi, I'd like some advice. I've had dogs my whole life but I've never had so much trouble with a dog. She is a very sweet and affectionate 4 month old puppy, but we cannot house train her, she shreds everything, will not come when she's called, steals food out of my 3 year old granddaughters hands, eats toys, digs and generally disrespects us. She sleeps in a crate at night and can 'hold it' all night long, and she's very bright because she learned how to sit and shake in one try, but she is a devil. Has anyone advice on possibly medicating her? a shock collar? I realize dobermans are high energy, and we have 4 acres for her to run, but then she comes in the house and pees and poops wherever she pleases. And she knows it's wrong because she then runs away from me. I am at my wits end! Please help.
thanks,
Please do not medicate or shock a baby puppy.

Do you have a good breeder to reach out to? Have you had a working breed dog before? If not a good breeder, I also suggest your local breed club (find chapter clubs here: The DPCA | Chapter Clubs) - it sounds like you have a fairly typical, high energy Doberman pup.

What method are you using for housetraining? Some puppies need to go out every 20-30 minutes. I keep my pups either leashed to me or in a crate or x-pen so they are 100% supervised until housetrained. That way I can see immediately if they show signs they need to go out - sniffing, circling, etc. You should NEVER punish a puppy for going inside - your pup doesn't "know it's wrong" - what she's learned is that you are upset and possibly punishing her and that's why she's running away. What is going to quickly happen is that she will learn that it's not safe to urinate or defecate near or in front of you and you'll have a dog that will hide or have accidents or not want to go when you are watching, which is exactly what you don't want. Instead, you ignore mistakes (they are really your fault for not having 100% eyes on the puppy!), and every time she goes outside where you want, you are SOOOO happy and have a party, even a treat! Dobermans are smart and they learn quickly if you teach them what you want.

If she's shredding and destroying things, she's not being supervised. A four month old Doberman (or any puppy) shouldn't be left to their own devices, and she NEEDS things she's allowed to chew! She's also going to be mouthing and biting - it's something you have to teach them not to do. This is a working breed and biting is very normal. Typically, standing up and walking away and all fun ending is a good way to teach them that biting you is no fun.

There's also no way a 4 month old pup should know to come when called - that takes a LOT of training! Have you signed up for puppy class with her?

Please get in touch with an experienced Doberman person and a good trainer, too. You can find good trainers here: Certified Dog Trainer Directory - CCPDT
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:03 AM
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Oh, here's a good beginning obedience class that is offered online. https://fenzidogsportsacademy.com/index.php/courses/49 It covers the basic of a lot of things, including recalls, setting onto a mat and being quiet, and impulse control.


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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your response. maybe I'm the one who needs to be medicated. I'd like to use the crate more, but she howls and screams in it and I know she has excess energy to burn, so i try to keep her running around. i'm just very frustrated.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:36 AM
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All of the above!
Training, training, training. Supervision at all times, in the crate when you can't. Redirection and lots of positive reinforcement.
Work with a trainer and set her up for success not failure.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ktyler View Post
Thanks for your response. maybe I'm the one who needs to be medicated. I'd like to use the crate more, but she howls and screams in it and I know she has excess energy to burn, so i try to keep her running around. i'm just very frustrated.
I hear your frustration, and I really think you need some support from some experienced people. The howling and screaming isn't necessarily excess energy - it can take some time to crate train. Some puppies don't take to it naturally. Google or youtube "Crate Games" - you want to make her crate a fun place. Have you tried giving her something like a stuffed Kong in there? One simple recipe is to take some of her kibble from a morning or evening meal (you don't want to add more calories to her day), mix that up with just enough canned food to make it all "stick" together, and stuff the whole Kong with it. That should occupy her for a little while and make the crate a good place. You can actually turn all of her meals into Kong meals if you buy several Kongs - some dogs do really well having all their meals like that because it makes their minds and bodies work a bit. When that starts to get "easy" you can start freezing the Kongs overnight to make them last longer. You can also mix up what goes in there - I like to do a little yogurt or some other things - we can help you with that. There are also food toys that you can buy that make her work for her food - there's something called a Kong Wobbler that I like to use as a first toy. You just put all her kibble in it and she has to knock it around to get the food out. Burns off energy.

This type of stuff is all something a good trainer can help you with. Also, a good, experienced Doberman person that you can connect with locally could help you with what's normal, etc.


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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:44 AM
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What general area are you located in? Maybe we can help you find someone to help you out.


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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 02:28 PM
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One thing I've come to learn from owning my 3 1/2 month dobe pup is, simply running around and playing with my Husky is NOT enough to calm him down. Or really enough to burn all that energy. It really helps to do games with him that involves him to have to think. To focus. Like an extended game of fetch.
It's a good idea to play fetch and just simply play with your pup until he/she wears down some and then work on training exercises. Not just the basics. It's good to throw in other things just to exercise that very active mind of theirs!
A bored Doberman is a destructive one. Mine tries his best to be a good dog, but when he gets bored he gets into everything.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 02:46 PM
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+1 for the kong wobbler. I just fill it with kibble and it lasts a few days and Apollo loves to smack it then chase the kibble as it flies out 2-3 at a time.

Also do you live around other dogs? My neighbor runs ultra marathons and has a mixed dog that will do 10-15 mile runs with him. We let the two of them play in a decent sized backyard and he'll run and run for hours until they're both gassed out (speed vs endurance right now). He'll still have "energy" after but he won't be destructive and will go in his crate and pass out all on his own at or before bedtime.

We also let him run like that with the other neighbors dogs who are mostly lazy house dogs. He'll tire out a handful of other dogs as they come up and others leave before he's ready to come in. They have a blast and all the owners are happy, just make sure personalities are ok for this.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktyler View Post
Hi, I'd like some advice. I've had dogs my whole life but I've never had so much trouble with a dog. She is a very sweet and affectionate 4 month old puppy, but we cannot house train her, she shreds everything, will not come when she's called, steals food out of my 3 year old granddaughters hands, eats toys, digs and generally disrespects us. She sleeps in a crate at night and can 'hold it' all night long, and she's very bright because she learned how to sit and shake in one try, but she is a devil. Has anyone advice on possibly medicating her? a shock collar? I realize dobermans are high energy, and we have 4 acres for her to run, but then she comes in the house and pees and poops wherever she pleases. And she knows it's wrong because she then runs away from me. I am at my wits end! Please help.
thanks,
Ok so since my pup is 5 months I've gone through most of that and still going through some of it so I can relate . House training ? Until recently about a month ago is when she stopped peeing in her crate. We bought her a huge crate. Our mistake ? Was giving her allllll that free space so we put the separator and only gave her enough space to lay and be able to turn around. After that she stopped peeing in the crate. I stop giving her water 2 hours before bedtime. She wakes me up every morning at 6 like clockwork crying so I can take her out to pee. We took the separator out and she's doing great. The not coming when she's called ? I've had her in training since she was 3 months old. I use to think she ignored me on purpose. The training helped soooooo much. We have her in intermediate training now, In the works of getting her certified as a therapy dog and she is doing AMAZING. She comes when she's called ( except when she's playing with her dad or other dogs and is distracted, which is normal for a pup. She shakes, leaves it and takes it, drops it, stays, sits to be petted , lays down. And is learning to heel. Training works wonders. It helps. And when we get home from the training which is once a week, She's soooo tried she passes out completely for about 4 hours. She sleeps in her crate but even at night sometimes she'll whine and cry cause she wants to be with us. And that's only cause I've spoiled her a bit and let her take small naps on the bed with me every once in a while. We bought her a bed and after a month of having it she finally tore it up and took all the stuffing out. So no more bed in bed crate. Toys should only be used under supervision. And the digging ? I'm still working on that myself. I don't think you need a shock collar or meds. Dobbies are high energy puppies and a lot of work. They're fast learners. You just have to have patience. LOTS of it.


Btw, about the stealing food ? Funny story. We were teaching her to leave it. Hubby and I had pizza for dinner and I was practicing her leave it with pupperoni treats. She was doing SO GREAT. Until my husband said "yeah? Let's see how great she is at leaving it when we drop a slice of pizza." He cut a pizza in half and dropped it on the floor. The pizza didn't even make it to the floor. . Now ? I could drop a piece of steak on the floor and she'll look at me as if to ask me for permission to take it. Practice makes perfect. like I said, have patience.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 09:43 AM
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Would you let your kid put her finger in an electrical outlet. I assume, no.

Diligence and supervision! Puppies are puppies and don't know any better, unless they are properly corrected. Not trying to be mean, but you need the training.

Pups are, in general, regardless of breed are stupid without proper supervision. Pups are hard work! More so than kids, in my lowly opinion.

I suggest a puppy training class.

I also kept Axel and the Dobe, Ktrin, before him tethered when TRYING to relax a tiny bit in the house. The tether was long enough for them to explore a little bit, while I waited for the signs that something might go wrong.

Hope this helps.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 09:46 AM
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Big fat NO on meds and E-collars!

It's called going to work.

No one said work was fun.

That's why they call is going to work, instead of going to Fun!
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 12:08 AM
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House breaking 101 :
If you take them out on about a 6 ft leash it helps keep them focused tell them go potty ,hurry up or what ever words you want to use just use the same words each time. Stand in one spot let them go all around you till they find the spot then Praise like it is the greatest thing you ever saw. If they do not go in about 20 minutes go back in and crate them or tie them to you them go back out in about 30 minutes.pups need to go out after naps,playing, eating & drinking 1st thing in the morning last thing at night depending on the age of the pup you may need to take them out at night too. Always use a pet urine enzyme to clean up all traces of urine or feces you can use a black light to find all traces. It takes about 3-6 months of contestant training to house break a pup the more accidents they have the longer it takes. Hang a bell on the door you go out you ring it until the pup gets the idea how to ring it yes sometimes they ring it to go look at a squirrel but its a phase they go though you just have to go though it with them. Do not forget to praise each time they go to reinforce the potty training. If you are consistent you will also have a pup/dog that will go potty on command comes in handy when it rains,snow, is icy, on a trip at night . People will think you are a amazing trainer too. Good Luck with your new baby.
Are you going out each time with him and making sure he goes and praising every time he goes I believe it is important to ask them if they need to go potty or what ever words you want to use same words each time though. When he is playing you might ask him if he needs to go like a little reminder. I still to this day ask mine if they want to go if they have been in the house awhile.If you hang bells on the door if you ring them each time when taking him out he will learn to ring the bells on his own. This system really works just have to be consistent with it.Hang in there.Does not matter if you have a large yard or no yard and just walking them the key to potty training is having them on a leash and going with them. You have to PRAISE them so they will know they did right by potting outside. Will not learn it if you just let them out they have no clue what go potty means unless you teach it. It takes a good 3 months to have them get reliable remember you are a giant to them , they do not know English or what ever language you speak they have to learn that too.It like going to a different country not knowing the language you ask to go to the bathroom they have no idea what you mean learned behavior.Remember a baby is in diapers for at least a year puppies are babies too. Good Luck

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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-22-2017, 11:14 AM
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Dogs Name: Richter; Sypha; RIP Shanoa & Simon
Titles: Richter: CAA, L1V, NW1, L1I, L1E, ACT1, WAC
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DSC_0133
by Shanoa Delta, on Flickr

Richter & Sypha
Glengate's Mountain Fortress CAA L1V NW1 L1I L1E L1C ACT1 WAC & Sirai's Golden Masquerade
“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you.
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― Jane Goodall
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