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Old 09-17-2013, 06:16 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Omg, I thought I halfway checked what was changed by spellchecker, but apparently not. My last post is pitiful. Hope it can be deciphered.

Sorry about that everyone.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:23 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I know the bitch in the very first pedigree you posted "Celtic Love." Haleigh is a stunning girl. Wish I could tell you more about the pedigree, sorry.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:37 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Yes exile and her sisters aren't the only ones with bad hips coming from that breeder.....

One dog I know who was 'rescued' from that particular breeder had hip dysplasia that the vet believed to be the result of being crated 24/7 at a bad time in the dog's development.

Heard enough horror stories from this woman, that I completely care less about the sometimes nice pedigrees she may have.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:11 PM   #29 (permalink)
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So if you take away being great at schutzhund worst case she becomes an adored pet or we do confirmation..you all agree the risk of going mentall is too high ?

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Old 09-17-2013, 08:28 PM   #30 (permalink)
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So if you take away being good at schutzhund worst case she becomes an adored pet..you all agree the risk of going mentall is too high ?
Are you referring to a puppy from the second breeder in your above post? It sounds like there are multiple knowledgeable people in this post who are specifically recommending against the second breeder... Maybe your initial instincts on the paypal were spot on.

On the other hand, the first breeder, at least from everything I have seen and heard, is reputable. I have seen her dogs at shows in the area that I live and my former handler also handled for her. However, I cannot speak to the pedigree, but the points made by Linda about Jalar would concern me. You might want to PM Adara and ask her about the pedigree.

It's awesome that you are doing your research. But what struck me reading your thread is that the two breeders / pedigrees you posted are total opposites in my mind. If you are truly interested in Schutzhund, there are some other breeders you could be considering. I know there is a thread on DT listing a number of working line breeders but a few here on the east coast that come to mind immediately would be Bella Lavoro (sp?) and Cara. Kansa is in the mid-west but would be worth reaching out to. And there are many other great working line breeders in the US - I am just not that familiar with them... As already state by someone else, Kettle Cove is show line breeder. It all just depends on what you are looking for.

Editing to add - I just noticed your edit about doing conformation (not confirmation ). If you are referring to the second breeder, this would not be a strong conformation option as far as I am concerned, unless you just want to dabble in UKC. On the other hand, if you are truly interested in conformation, the first breeder would be better. Some folks do have dogs that excel in both conformation and working sports and if you want something that can go both routes, you may want to talk to Kansa or to Whitney Newman, Cinematic Dobermans who posted above. She does both working sports and conformation.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:29 PM   #31 (permalink)
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So if you take away being great at schutzhund worst case she becomes an adored pet or we do confirmation..you all agree the risk of going mentall is too high ?
Nitpick, but an important one--it's conformation, not confirmation.

I think folks are getting confused about which pedigree you're inquiring about, now. I know I am, anyway

Here's the thing.

Showing in breed ring competition (conformation) and participating in SchH are so many worlds apart, it makes one wonder if you are at all prepared for what you might be taking on.

^^^Not at all meant to be an insult, just a dose of reality.

Both disciplines have their expenses and their difficulties, but both require a huge commitment, and with the SchH, a lot of physical effort, laying down tracks and many hours each week at training.

Could it be you really need to be asking breeders for a nice family companion puppy? A healthy, well-bred Doberman can be a very versatile animal, and they NEED to work and exercise, so you should be very happy with a "pet" puppy.

I mean, you could still dabble in various things, find out what you and your kiddo like, and what the dog likes, thru experience. But you possibly might be setting yourself up for a miserable experience for all, if you purposely set out to buy an animal that has been specifically bred and chosen for a certain job, and find out you aren't so taken with the lifestyle involved, you know?
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:08 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Oh wow, I wasn't expecting to open the pedigree and see Hayleigh lol!!

I know that Juggs the sire of the first litter posted has done some shutzhund(sp), Julie the dam of my girl and Juggs has her WAC. The obedience part would not be an issue, I think it would be how far you want to go in the protection part of it. Hayleigh is pretty laid back, but she lights up like a firecracker if she has too!!!

You can contact Sharon at Kettle Cove, she knows her pedigrees and would be able to tell you more about the sires side. Hope that helps some
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:09 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Yes I know its conformation...lol just hit spell check and didn't catch it...yes I know they are miles apart in dogs..and breeders...the going crazy part I was referring to the first dog and of course conformation is what she was bred for..the exact reason I'm considering her..she should turn out beautiful...that's first on my list. So what if I did try schutzhand with her the breeder seems to believe she would do well....if she didn't I would still be very happy with her ..if she just wants to be pretty and do conformation that's fine with me and the breeding is there.
The reason I don't just do a pet...well I've waited years to get another doberman and now I have the time to show I don't want to limit myself in any way...I want to do this right the first time and not limit my options.
I don't want anyone to tell me my dog doesn't look to standard ..I want to be confident to look them in the face and have no excuses and say ..hey buddy this dog is to standard and one of the best examples you will ever see around here.
If I cant get that out of a working line maybe I should not do schutzhand.
its not a due or die for me witch I do ..not now not after all I've read it is more about spending time with my doberman now......
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:19 PM   #34 (permalink)
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You can contact Sharon at Kettle Cove, she knows her pedigrees and would be able to tell you more about the sires side. Hope that helps some [/quote]

Thank you for your response I did try kettle s # on their web. And it wouldn't go through so ill email her.. I think I saw her on Facebook also ...if the dog is stable and I decide to pull the trigger I need to make sure there is no scam ..
The seller has agreed to fly in to me from Arizona ..but I believe is asking for payment in full first....now the contract is open to negotiations but in today's world I need to verify who I'm dealing with....before sending payment. ..and what percentage is acceptable to get her to me.
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Old 09-18-2013, 12:17 AM   #35 (permalink)
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You can contact Sharon at Kettle Cove, she knows her pedigrees and would be able to tell you more about the sires side. Hope that helps some
Thank you for your response I did try kettle s # on their web. And it wouldn't go through so ill email her.. I think I saw her on Facebook also ...if the dog is stable and I decide to pull the trigger I need to make sure there is no scam ..
The seller has agreed to fly in to me from Arizona ..but I believe is asking for payment in full first....now the contract is open to negotiations but in today's world I need to verify who I'm dealing with....before sending payment. ..and what percentage is acceptable to get her to me.[/quote]

Bold mine. Which breeder? Kettle Cove isn't in AZ I thought.
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Old 09-18-2013, 12:34 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:30 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I know Katie, they used to live about 30 min from my house (in RI). Nice people, Sharon at KettleCove is one of her mentors. She started breeding in the last few years and is working hard at doing it right - pedigree, health testing, the works.

The reason why I know her is because in the beginning she got taken by a non-reputable breeder. She found out and did not breed, placing one of her females in a pet home, spay contract, thoroughly screening the buyers. Which wound out being us!
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:44 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Think I'm just going to delete this whole thread as unnecessary at this point since questions have been answered.
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:51 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Linda .. I took note on the cardio and the behavioral issues and will talk with katie openly so if you think best to delete im good ...let me know if you feel there are any untruths to the posts
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:18 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Linda .. I took note on the cardio and the behavioral issues and will talk with katie openly so if you think best to delete im good ...let me know if you feel there are any untruths to the posts
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:36 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Linda .. I took note on the cardio and the behavioral issues and will talk with katie openly so if you think best to delete im good ...let me know if you feel there are any untruths to the posts
Perhaps there are some mornings I shouldn't post at all.

KC Rescue, I used the wrong word and didn't catch it until just now. I meant post instead of thread. I don't have the authority to delete threads, just my posts...sorry for making that mistake.

I had written some things that were answered in the post right above mine before I got mine entered. Once I posted mine, I saw the answers above making my post unnecessary. That's all.

I do think you should talk to Adara about the Jalar lines, tho, and find out if the dogs from Soquels Distant Thunder in the pedigree are alive or dead, ages and causes of death if passed. Some lines from himthe dogs all die relatively young from DCM while others don't. You want to avoid the ones where the descendants all die right down the line one after the other.
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:49 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Yes exile and her sisters aren't the only ones with bad hips coming from that breeder.....

One dog I know who was 'rescued' from that particular breeder had hip dysplasia that the vet believed to be the result of being crated 24/7 at a bad time in the dog's development.

Heard enough horror stories from this woman, that I completely care less about the sometimes nice pedigrees she may have.
Asmit....Exile was here in Belgium some months ago for her mating with Alf...i trained her and she's a more then average dog ...The sire she used Alf vom Teufelshof which i saw myself is a MORE than average dog...

If we are gonna discuss health in peds why don't you show your dog's pedigree and we can discuss the "errors" in that one as well

Someone told me about this post and it was NOT dourden itself. Now normally i don't post at these forums or any other concerning that since it ain't worth my time and i've found out over the last 20 plus years the ones with the biggest mouth on a forum are usually the ones with the zero results on a competiton field. Now probably the groupies will start calling me names but i really don't care since as i said before "forumheroes" don't bother me AT ALL
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Old 09-18-2013, 03:29 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Asmit....Exile was here in Belgium some months ago for her mating with Alf...i trained her and she's a more then average dog ...The sire she used Alf vom Teufelshof which i saw myself is a MORE than average dog...

If we are gonna discuss health in peds why don't you show your dog's pedigree and we can discuss the "errors" in that one as well

Someone told me about this post and it was NOT dourden itself. Now normally i don't post at these forums or any other concerning that since it ain't worth my time and i've found out over the last 20 plus years the ones with the biggest mouth on a forum are usually the ones with the zero results on a competiton field. Now probably the groupies will start calling me names but i really don't care since as i said before "forumheroes" don't bother me AT ALL
What about her hips?
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Old 09-18-2013, 03:43 PM   #44 (permalink)
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That's a fact i won't denie but this post was intended to those who bash on others while they actually should look at their own business in the first place....Always easy bashing people on a forum
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Old 09-18-2013, 04:55 PM   #45 (permalink)
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That's a fact i won't denie but this post was intended to those who bash on others while they actually should look at their own business in the first place....Always easy bashing people on a forum
So...you came back after such a long absence not participating--because DT "isn't worth your time," to confirm that Exile has failed her hip evaluation...but you're just mad someone posted that here?
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:05 PM   #46 (permalink)
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So...you came back after such a long absence not participating--because DT "isn't worth your time," to confirm that Exile has failed her hip evaluation...but you're just mad someone posted that here?
nope....as i said "someone made me notice and it was NOT dourden"

BTW I'm comming to the USA after the nationlas here so maybe we can have some lunch
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:05 PM   #47 (permalink)
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nationals that should be
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:11 PM   #48 (permalink)
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nope....as i said "someone made me notice and it was NOT dourden"

BTW I'm comming to the USA after the nationlas here so maybe we can have some lunch
You buying?
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:14 PM   #49 (permalink)
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You buying?
If i win the nationals you pay...if not i do ....deal?
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:33 PM   #50 (permalink)
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If i win the nationals you pay...if not i do ....deal?
Deal, only if you're planning something better than McDonalds.
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