sonterra2002

I do it as soon as I get them, younger if I am helping raise the litter. But it is in an equal nature to the issue, ie if the puppy full on nails me that gets a full correction, if they are just having my arm or hand in their mouth like a soother a gentler redirection is given. However in every other aspect of life their life is a wild crazy party. I don't do any formal obedience until they are around 10 months, just motivation for food and tug, and i make them retarded crazy for the tug and ball. I have no issues with them biting other people (as in i do not correct them for biting anyone else) but I am always an authority figure.

I have never seen a loss of prey drive or desire to interact with the decoy.

You need to get on your puppy ASAP with socialization. The world needs to be a fascinating fun place not a world of worry. Do not encourage the love of home and crate, or you will have a dog that will shine at home and no where else.

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Tamara McIntosh
http://www.wix.com/rivercityring/club#!
people who say something is impossible should get out of the way of the people who are doing it

Cathy43

Indeed, I've never had one like this either. Perhaps you can ask Vicki what her temperament was like when she had her? In the meantime, get her out as much as you can.

doberkim

I'm not raising a bitework puppy - I'm raising a sport dog for performance venues.

That being said, I can absolutely correct for LIFE issues - even in their adult careers, I rarely use anything but a mild correction in their SPORTS. But in real life, those are where I can instill real corrections.

No biting me is number one. Similar to what Tamara said, I use a scruff on younger puppies because that is clearly understood. I rarely use verbal corrections on them at this age.
I don't allow chasing my cats - what you do outside is different but in this house, you are not allowed to chase/annoy/irritate on purpose any of my animals. My cats present a perfect opportunity to teach leave it. Not to say they don't still chase and play with the cats - but they are friendly and my cats encourage it.
I also don't let my puppies freely socialize with the adult dogs very much.
I don't allow nuisance barking. Berlin can alert at neighbors, etc, noises thats fine. You don't get to sit in the house and bark just to hear the sound of your own voice.
I do teach my dogs how to socialize and interact with people - we go as many places as possible. I don't want my dogs getting to new situations and feeling unsafe - I want them walking in places like they own the place. And I do teach them from the very start how to explore a situation and then always always always reorient back to me.

I never allow my dogs to socialize with strange dogs - with my friends though they are allowed to play with their dogs *As long as they are able to come back to me the minute I call them*. I don't even let my puppies out with the adults until I can call them off - for cherry this took a LONG time because she's a very pack oriented dog.

None of these reduce drive - but it gives me safe, social, stable, livable house dogs. They jump, they do bark, they are crazy they maul people.

In terms of the issues with the dog being reluctant to leave - I have seen this in a few dobermans and some other breeds - above all, you need to socialize her because what happens in some is that they start guarding their crate and growling when asked to leave. For most of the ones I have seen its because they are simply uncomfortable with their surroundings and they need MUCH more socialization. Talking to Vicky is a very good idea because she may know if this has happened before in similar breedings, she may know if something happened to her when she was still there, or if there is anything she recommends. IMO she needs some happy socialization from people and locations so she feels more secure.

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Adara

I'm also not raising bitework dogs, but performance dogs but thought I'd touch on the food drive. Do others see that food drive increases on it's own? I have never experiencd that BUT I pick foodies from day 1. If it were me, I'd be working on food drive myself. Just like toy drive if I had a dog with not a higher than avg toy drive.

I agree with Doberkim about the crate stuff also.

Is she a good eater? Could you use meals for training?

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Colleen
Flirt, ADAMAS All the Girls Do It, OA, NAJ, CL2-F, CL2-H
Gabby, Ch Gold Run's Token of Rumor, JH, NA, OAJ, NF, NJP, CL2,CL3-H, CL3-F Vizsla
Havoc, GCh HRQ Guess Who's In Trouble, JH, OA, OAJ, CL2-H, CL2-S, CL2-F Vizsla
Envy, Kizmar's Bailey HotShot of Adara, Vizsla

Asmit

The food drive thing is strange to me... There isn't a single dog out of the recent working litter I've helped raised that didn't have over the top food drive. Granted the drive has been encouraged, but even the lowest drive pup of the litter will draw blood without using gloves.

I would have assumed the breeder did some work with the pups, it just seems weird that a "working litter" pup would have 0 food drive and that the breeder would not have brought more of it out.

doberkim

i didnt even read the part about food, i must have missed it?
you can certainly cultivate it, but i prefer to start with dogs that come with that naturally. my dogs live to eat and i spend more time trying to get things OUT of their mouths than getting them to eat my dogs have a fairly large group of things they consider food which are in fact, not actually edible.

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Adara

This made me chuckle. Got a flat tire with a 5 month old puppy in the car last night. Hubby bless his heart came to fix it. Standing on the side of a road for an hour, I cannot even count the number of items I removed from her mouth before it occurred to me I could put her back in the crate on the ground. She tried to eat bark, sticks, gross napkin, gum on the sidewalk, the treat bag from my training bag since we were on our way to class....

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Colleen
Flirt, ADAMAS All the Girls Do It, OA, NAJ, CL2-F, CL2-H
Gabby, Ch Gold Run's Token of Rumor, JH, NA, OAJ, NF, NJP, CL2,CL3-H, CL3-F Vizsla
Havoc, GCh HRQ Guess Who's In Trouble, JH, OA, OAJ, CL2-H, CL2-S, CL2-F Vizsla
Envy, Kizmar's Bailey HotShot of Adara, Vizsla

Hooligan

I smiled when I saw these words, because they so accurately describe what we went through when we first started schutzhund. What's that saying? Put three trainers together in a room, and the only thing any two of them can agree on is that the third one is doing it all wrong.

I guarantee that you will continue to get conflicting advice, and you may find this very frustrating at times. But in the end, this is a good thing, because as you become more attuned to your pup's personality and her strengths and weaknesses, it will give you an array of options and approaches to choose among. Every dog is different and what works with one dog may not work with another.

At one point, we were so frustrated that we ended up appealing for advice to a friend who is a trainer and who had just qualified her young dog in SAR. Her advice? Just remember that Jack is your dog and you know him best. You know what your goals are for him, and the path you choose should help you achieve these goals.

I'll just add that, in retrospect, there are a few things we would probably do differently with another puppy.

The first is that we would be much more conscientious about being prepared so that we could redirect him when he did crazy and annoying puppy stuff (and believe me, he did a LOT of crazy and annoying puppy stuff). We would make sure that we always carried a tug or a ball so that we were never caught empty-handed.

The second is that we would be more patient and not try to bring along his formal obedience so quickly. We would spend much more time on play that is fun and that focuses on us as the source of the fun.

And finally, we would have more confidence in our own instincts and abilities. Though we were far from new to dogs, we were new to the sport and we did pretty much as instructed, especially at first. Having now gained some insights into the sport and having seen positive changes to training strategies, as well as an array of training strategies, we would be much more comfortable and relaxed about working out the best techniques for our particular dog.

Good luck with your girl. You have an interesting journey ahead.

Rosamburg

In terms of conflicting advice, welcome to Schutzhund and dog training in general. I remember the first 2 clubs I participated in, it seemed like everyone was doing something different. If I asked 4 different members of the same club the same question I was likely to get 5 different answers. I find this is the norm in probably most places.

That is why it was refreshing for me when I ended up where I did. The club I have been a member of for the past 8 years has a system which every single member follows. To be honest I have never really encountered this anywhere else I have gone, even as just a visitor. In the last 3 years we have had 4 different club members on the Canadian world team at the world championships. To the OP, I sent you a pm but have not heard from you.

I think as a beginner it is important to keep searching different clubs if you have that luxury and find a club with system that really works, or a trainer you can trust.