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View Poll Results: Would you be interested? If so, what type?
Yes 6 37.50%
No 5 31.25%
Maybe 4 25.00%
One Dog 1 6.25%
Multiple Dogs 8 50.00%
One Phase 3 18.75%
Combined Phases 5 31.25%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-25-2012, 08:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Post Would you buy it? (Poll/Opinions!)

So as I was watching some more training videos, I kept thinking about how a lot of the dogs they were using as examples, were much 'further along' than the video was trying to go through. For example, a video about teaching a dog to heel, but they're using a dog who already knows how to heel perfectly to 'show' the method.

How many people would be interested in something like this:

Say a trainer took one or multiple dobermans (since this is a dobe forum!) and recorded their progress from puppyhood up to their first trial and so on. Just for example sake, say from a few months old, to the BH, to the IPO1 if we're talking schutzhund. Or for obedience, puppyhood until their first CD trial or open trial (sorry I don't know all of the akc ob milestones.) Or even a ring dog. Most people can't just get a DVD and end up with a finished dog, but even for people actively in a club, it may help them see the whole process if they are a 'newb' and just starting out.

For schutzhund, would you be interested in a 'complete' video as in tracking, ob, protection? Or individual videos like just the tracking or just the obedience? Obviously if it was individualized, the videos could cover more in depth for each phase.

I also completely understand the fact that every dog is different, every dog has their own personality quirks, drives, maturity rates, and of course handlers. However, I think it'd be cool to watch the same dog go through the process rather than just little tidbits of dogs that you have no idea where their level is at the time of shooting.

There are also hardly any dobermans in the videos I have watched (which is quite a lot). And the dobermans do mature slower and are very different than the Mals for example, which seem to dominant the protection sports videos.

Anyways, I'm curious to hear people's opinions on this. And no, its not like I'm thinking about doing it I have no idea what I'm doing 99.9% of the time!
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I wouldn't buy it. I would buy the video to see what the finished "product" should look like, I think I'd be bored watching the whole process. I can also see myself comparing the dog on screen with mine. "Oh the dog got it down in 10 minutes, why hasn't my dog gotten it yet?!? I'm so stupid!!" kind of thing. If I wanted to see step by step I'd rather see it in person so I can ask questions along the way.


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Old 11-25-2012, 09:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I would like to see it, but I wouldn't buy it. I think it would be really interesting to watch for a lot of tips and whatnot, but to buy... probably not. As far as I am concerned, there is NO substitute to a good club with spotters for ob and tracking and good helpers for protection. I know not everyone has that, but it is really important.

For those that don't have access, I think the videos that are out there to purchase and those on youtube are sufficient.
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I would like to see it, but I wouldn't buy it. I think it would be really interesting to watch for a lot of tips and whatnot, but to buy... probably not. As far as I am concerned, there is NO substitute to a good club with spotters for ob and tracking and good helpers for protection. I know not everyone has that, but it is really important.

For those that don't have access, I think the videos that are out there to purchase and those on youtube are sufficient.
Yeah I agree with you. There is no substitute for anactual club/trainer and I certainly don't use any DVDs as replacements of such. I'm thinking mainly towards someone new to the sport to be able to watch the overall process of one dog, as many people are intimidated by it and fail to hit that step post-BH.

More of an interest thing rather than purchase. I said 'buy' but really mean 'interested in watching'.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Asmit I rekon you should do it and for this reason it would be better:

Quote:
Anyways, I'm curious to hear people's opinions on this. And no, its not like I'm thinking about doing it I have no idea what I'm doing 99.9% of the time!
1: because I rekon you are far better than you think
2: It would be cool to see the handler getting better also because at the end of the day it's not about the dog.
3: I love the dogs you work with they are all awesomeness incarnate in the form of dobermans more vids would just make me more happy! and sad
4:You have access to people that really do know what they are doing, many like me don't.

Do it as a blog, I thought about doing this but binned the idea because:

A: I REALLY don't know what I am doing 99.9% of the time
B: People just don't seem to get the idea that by seeing a dog that isn't fully trained is the better way to learn because that is what they have, in their room/on the field with them. They can see corrections, frustrations, dedication etc. It's the reason I never edit out the fkups from my vids. I could have just trained the dogs a behaviour and then edited a 'clean' vid. I would have learned nothing that way.
C: I am have in no way 'kept up with the kids' as far as internet, blogs, technology so am probably incapable of it logistically.

I think it would be awesome, it was what I wanted to do with my 'train your dog with Matt Vandart' thread but didn't, I think I went completely the wrong way..

It'll be great, do it, even if just for the experience for yourself.





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Old 11-26-2012, 08:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I think it's an interesting idea. I would watch it if its condensed and not really long and drawn out. When I make my agility videos of prime I cut out all of the mistakes but it's the mistakes on video that I go back and watch to learn from because the instructors explain what I'm doing wrong and the steps to achieve what I want my dog to do.

I am getting back into Schutzhund and joined a newly forming club over the weekend. I have never done tracking and Prime is brand new at it. I was shown how to get him started and if would really be neat to video it so I can document his progress.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Yes, we definitely would be interested, especially if the video highlighted and offered solutions to some of the typical training challenges presented by Dobes . . . just because they are Dobes. We are fortunate to have access to folks who have trained "alternative" breeds and who recognize the importance of tailoring training methods to the individual dog, but it would be great to be able to draw ideas from a resource that focused specifically on Dobes.

Unlike odiakkoh, I do find the training process fascinating.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:15 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Yes, we definitely would be interested, especially if the video highlighted and offered solutions to some of the typical training challenges presented by Dobes . . . just because they are Dobes. We are fortunate to have access to folks who have trained "alternative" breeds and who recognize the importance of tailoring training methods to the individual dog, but it would be great to be able to draw ideas from a resource that focused specifically on Dobes.

Unlike odiakkoh, I do find the training process fascinating.
That's my thinking.

Matt I also see your point. I think that may be a good idea to have a 'novice' handler/trainer and then have a professional commentating. I know in the michael ellis videos I remember the most from watching the handlers make mistakes, and him saying what they did wrong.

To the last sentence, I agree with you hooligan. Haha there are plenty of ways to see the end product, but the sport of training is how you get there. Of course if your not actively training in the sport, you wouldn't be interested in how 'you got there', but I honestly don't see what good would come out of just watching the very end.

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I think it's an interesting idea. I would watch it if its condensed and not really long and drawn out. When I make my agility videos of prime I cut out all of the mistakes but it's the mistakes on video that I go back and watch to learn from because the instructors explain what I'm doing wrong and the steps to achieve what I want my dog to do.

I am getting back into Schutzhund and joined a newly forming club over the weekend. I have never done tracking and Prime is brand new at it. I was shown how to get him started and if would really be neat to video it so I can document his progress.
Yeah, that's the problem I was thinking. It couldn't go into great detail if it were are 'every phase' thing for 2 years. It could only incorporate clips here and there. If it was too long and drawn out, it would be ridiculous to watch.

Having said this, most of the dog videos I've watched are 3:30-4 hours long. And I somehow managed to stay awake atleast once through it!
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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My trainer friend is using Envy to make videos for her students so they can see what a beginning dog looks like vs a dog who is trained. I'm not sure I'd 'buy it' but I would find it useful. Most of the videos I've seen in the past have shown both a novice dog and an experienced dog.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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That's my thinking.

Matt I also see your point. I think that may be a good idea to have a 'novice' handler/trainer and then have a professional commentating. I know in the michael ellis videos I remember the most from watching the handlers make mistakes, and him saying what they did wrong.

To the last sentence, I agree with you hooligan. Haha there are plenty of ways to see the end product, but the sport of training is how you get there. Of course if your not actively training in the sport, you wouldn't be interested in how 'you got there', but I honestly don't see what good would come out of just watching the very end.



Yeah, that's the problem I was thinking. It couldn't go into great detail if it were are 'every phase' thing for 2 years. It could only incorporate clips here and there. If it was too long and drawn out, it would be ridiculous to watch.

Having said this, most of the dog videos I've watched are 3:30-4 hours long. And I somehow managed to stay awake atleast once through it!
Ah but if it was a daily/weekly blog then the converse could be true as in one would get to the end of the clip/vid thinking, dammit I gotta wait till the next one!
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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If you are able to video your training, I am sure that you will find it invaluable. Whether or not you can capitalize on it by sharing it with others for money.

We video as often as we are able, and always find it instructive. It is hard for DH to see how great Gracie looks, as he is concentrating on handling her (and trying hard to get that right; this is his first dog training experience). Being able to watch later on really helps him see where he has it right, how great she looks, and where he can improve.

I'm with workingk9s; I'd probably be willing to at least consider renting the videos on topics of particular interest, but probably would not purchase them.

You might want to consider sharing gratis to build a reputation. For example, if KevinK started making training videos, I think many would have a great interest due to the large number of great training videos he's shared with us on DT for free.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I always prefer to watch a how-to vs. a completed project, for most anything. I'm not saying I would necessarily buy one, but I would def. watch it on youtube instead of watching a trainer with finished dogs. The better someone gets at something, (not always, but I have seen this many, many times, in all walks of life) the less they remember to tell you the basics, because they assume it's common sense and everyone knows. But, the majority of people who are looking to learn from these videos NEED to understand the basics. This is one of the things that determines a great teacher vs. an average teacher, imo.

Usually when I film myself, this is when I pick up on my mistakes, and can work on fixing them. I recommend anyone with access to a camera do this now and again, you may pick up on things you didn't even realize you were doing.

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Old 11-26-2012, 01:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If you are able to video your training, I am sure that you will find it invaluable. Whether or not you can capitalize on it by sharing it with others for money.

We video as often as we are able, and always find it instructive. It is hard for DH to see how great Gracie looks, as he is concentrating on handling her (and trying hard to get that right; this is his first dog training experience). Being able to watch later on really helps him see where he has it right, how great she looks, and where he can improve.

I'm with workingk9s; I'd probably be willing to at least consider renting the videos on topics of particular interest, but probably would not purchase them.

You might want to consider sharing gratis to build a reputation. For example, if KevinK started making training videos, I think many would have a great interest due to the large number of great training videos he's shared with us on DT for free.
Lol, well I honestly wasn't asking about me possibly doing it, more along the lines of a trainer who already has a following of people.

I agree with you completely; and If I personally did do it, I would not be looking to capitalize on it. I would do it for 'free', and see how people responded to it.

The problem with me doing it, is that all 4 dogs are passed the very beginning point. They all have basic concepts of heeling etc down, and I think these fundamentals would be the most important and valuable for others to watch.

If I come up with a good game plan, it may be possible to start with one of the pups as they are obviously just about to start 'official' training. Hypothetically speaking, I also don't know if it should be something that is done say once a week and 'sums' up the weeks work, or shows a couple clips throughout the week of the failures, progress, and so on. Obviously the latter would provide more details, but would be a whole heck of a lot of raw data.

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I always prefer to watch a how-to vs. a completed project, for most anything. I'm not saying I would necessarily buy one, but I would def. watch it on youtube instead of watching a trainer with finished dogs. The better someone gets at something, (not always, but I have seen this many, many times, in all walks of life) the less they remember to tell you the basics, because they assume it's common sense and everyone knows. But, the majority of people who are looking to learn from these videos NEED to understand the basics. This is one of the things that determines a great teacher vs. an average teacher, imo.
That is a very good point. In watching other videos I picked up on this quite a bit, because people who haven't done said thing before go well 'why did he do this?' or 'how'd he get from there to there?'. To an experienced person who has already titled a dog, they think its a known fact. Very good point, thanks.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Yeah I agree with you. There is no substitute for anactual club/trainer and I certainly don't use any DVDs as replacements of such. I'm thinking mainly towards someone new to the sport to be able to watch the overall process of one dog, as many people are intimidated by it and fail to hit that step post-BH.

More of an interest thing rather than purchase. I said 'buy' but really mean 'interested in watching'.
I can't speak for protection sports, but my thoughts having trained and started competing in agility...

I think it's a nice idea but so much of it depends on the dog and the ability of the handler. I know when I first started training Fiona in agility, if I'd seen video of a comparable team to she and I - independent, fearless, high energy pup with a completely green handler - I'd have probably not made it through the entire training process videos to see the outcome 2 years later when they started competing. I'd have sat there watching that fool of a handler thinking, "WTF is wrong with you? That dog is brain damaged and crazy and you're a fumbling moron. Give it up already." LOL

I think the only reason I kept pushing is because I had no idea what it was or wasn't going to be like for she and I; I just knew the trainers were encouraging, I enjoy learning, and Fi has fun. But if you'd shown me another more likely team's progress...that could have been misleading for me to think things may be that "simple" for us, and then I may have experienced more discouragement when things were harder than what I'd seen. There were enough times along the way I really didn't know we'd ever be a "ready-to-compete" product.

So I don't know. I don't think I'd buy it or recommend to it a totally inexperienced person. To much potential for creating false hope or preemptively discouraging someone. Now, after 2+ years of training, I could sit down and watch something like that. But I think it's best I had no idea what to really expect going in, at least with a dog like Fiona and a total sport noob like myself. I think it was to my benefit that I had to take things as they came rather than wholeheartedly expecting certain outcomes and certain milestones in a specific timeframe.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I can't speak for protection sports, but my thoughts having trained and started competing in agility...

I think it's a nice idea but so much of it depends on the dog and the ability of the handler. I know when I first started training Fiona in agility, if I'd seen video of a comparable team to she and I - independent, fearless, high energy pup with a completely green handler - I'd have probably not made it through the entire training process videos to see the outcome 2 years later when they started competing. I'd have sat there watching that fool of a handler thinking, "WTF is wrong with you? That dog is brain damaged and crazy and you're a fumbling moron. Give it up already." LOL

I think the only reason I kept pushing is because I had no idea what it was or wasn't going to be like for she and I; I just knew the trainers were encouraging, I enjoy learning, and Fi has fun. But if you'd shown me another more likely team's progress...that could have been misleading for me to think things may be that "simple" for us, and then I may have experienced more discouragement when things were harder than what I'd seen. There were enough times along the way I really didn't know we'd ever be a "ready-to-compete" product.

So I don't know. I don't think I'd buy it or recommend to it a totally inexperienced person. To much potential for creating false hope or preemptively discouraging someone. Now, after 2+ years of training, I could sit down and watch something like that. But I think it's best I had no idea what to really expect going in, at least with a dog like Fiona. I just had to take things as they came rather than wholeheartedly expecting certain outcomes and certain milestones in a specific timeframe.
Haha you must not watch many protection sports videos showing these insane 6 month old Mali's with near perfect heeling and attention Talk about discouragement....

I agree with you. Everyone's different, different people would take them different ways, but the videos currently out there in protection sports do the same (or can do the same). Schutzhund is not really something you can do without a professional, so I don't think most people watching the videos would not also have professional guidance etc. It'd be more of something to watch and see different methods, different problems, different troubleshooting techniques, and how a different trainer/handler offers their approach to these things. Not really a 'do it at home' kind of thing, but I really don't think any of the current schutzhund videos out there are a do-it-home-only kind of deal. More of a second opinion.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:12 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Oh I'm sure I'd be fascinated in person. I'm just not much of a video type girl. I'm the same on other topics. I would enjoy watching someone make a blanket out of a loom in real life but it'd be torture to sit through a video.


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Old 11-28-2012, 05:35 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Question to those who offered their opinion on this. I'm considering doing something 'sort of' like this for Argo. We've got his BH in a couple weeks, and we're doing the IPO1 and PSA-PDC in April. I'm considering making a blog to track the progress, talk about issues, what fixed them, etc.

Of course we have already begun the fundamentals such as the blind search, send out, etc, but they are still very much 'unfinished'. We've also got to get all of his tracking done within the next 5 months. Sufficient enough to pass atleast.

Should I bother with a blog even though he's already 'passed' the very beginning? Since he has the basic obedience down, it would focus on the more 'advanced' skills. Regardless, it is helpful for me to watch myself. I find myself doing things wrong 99% of the time haha
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I agree, that if nothing else, you will be able to see what you look like. Take a quick look at this video

Dakota & her Bite Wedge - YouTube

Dakota was young here, and this is one of the first times we used her wedge. I had no idea how high I was holding this until I watched it back, then I said "what the hell is wrong with me, how did I not notice I was holding it like that". At times it almost looks painful... If I saw someone else with this video I would yell at them and call them a dummy lol. Well, now I can take my own advice!
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I agree, that if nothing else, you will be able to see what you look like. Take a quick look at this video

Dakota & her Bite Wedge - YouTube

Dakota was young here, and this is one of the first times we used her wedge. I had no idea how high I was holding this until I watched it back, then I said "what the hell is wrong with me, how did I not notice I was holding it like that". At times it almost looks painful... If I saw someone else with this video I would yell at them and call them a dummy lol. Well, now I can take my own advice!
Yup! My decoy has been training me working with the younger dogs on tugs, teaching outs, catching the older dogs, etc, and I'm generally so 'in the moment' I completely forget what I'm actually doing. I watched a video of me catching a 110lb GSD (I am only 10 lbs more), and I had no idea how much of a train wreck I looked like. I thought I was lifting/triggering my arm high enough, but that was totally not taking into account the dog's size. I have a hard time watching myself sometimes

It's one thing to know what you're supposed to do but another thing to actually be able to do it. Especially so in the bitework. Everything happens so quickly.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:01 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'd read that blog!

And I agree that the one that needs training is the handler, generally. If we can train, the dogs are entirely willing to learn. It's just us getting the timing and movements correct. I think video is always educational and informative, especially video of ourselves.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:23 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Journey To My First IPO 1

Haha ok I created one! I'm sure it will change as I figure it out more, but this link should remain the same. If anyone has a better blog site to recommend, I'm all ears.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:26 AM   #22 (permalink)
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YAY!

I think maybe doing something on the bit you have already done would be cool, even if it is just a summary version.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:01 AM   #23 (permalink)
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YAY!

I think maybe doing something on the bit you have already done would be cool, even if it is just a summary version.
Well I'm going to have separate pages for each exercise. As in; retrieve, blind search, send out, tracking, and "obedience". Obedience I was going to include just general obedience like "more advanced" positioning exercises, heeling 'games', and possibly out of motion exercises. Since these last three things are not quite as involved as the others, I assumed I could just group them together.

I could make some general heeling videos if people think this might be helpful.

Considering I'm usually suited up in scratch pants by the helper and also handling ~4 dogs in protection on training nights, there's likely going to be little to no video of the protection phase. The lights on the field are good, but I don't know how well that would turn out at night. There will be video of the trials though.
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