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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 06:50 AM Thread Starter
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Aiming for perfection.

Saw this on another forum;

Quote:
“Perfection is the lowest standard a human could ever take on because it is unattainable therefore you ultimately have no standard at all. You are preparing for failure, because that is your ultimate expectation.” So aiming for perfection means you will never move forward. For some of you that may be what your subconscious expects and you will never achieve more than you think you deserve.
Anyone fancy a discussion about this statement?
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 07:43 AM
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its quite well put, but perfection is what the individual considers to be perfect in my opinion and if it is achievable then perfection is achievable for the individual
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting, so perfection is subjective rather than objective when you are deciding your own perfection.
what if that perfection is defined by others, or a clearly defined definition?
Such as in a trial?
Should you aim for perfection rather than excellence?

By the way I believe the quote comes from one of these life coach type people which was the motivation for the original thread on the other forum.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 01:33 PM
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I aim for progress. This just came up at a recently agility class with a world team trainer who is my new trainer. My Vizsla Havoc was going painfully slow in the weaves as soon as it got dark and the lights were on, lots of shadows...who knows what ax murderers may lurk in the dark One run was really bad. The next run he went slightly faster and I went ahead and stopped and rewarded him with his favorite toy. Then the next run he in turn went faster. If I waited for him to be perfect, he'd shut down or never get faster. Anyway, I got great kudos from the trainer for rewarding an imperfect performance but one that showed progress and told the class that is what works for most dogs anyway.

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 02:36 PM
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I think perfection is more of a term one would put on another , than you would apply to yourself or your actions. The aim for perfection is what drives most achievers, to expect perfection is summed up well by the quote.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 02:52 PM
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Perfection is objective and can be measured as 100% congruence with the stated outcome.

If you state that you wish to achieve 80% success in x number of jumps at a certain yps without dropping the bar at a given height, and achieve that, then you have perfection for that definition.

Just because someone else has a different subjective definition of the expected outcome doesn't make the objective measurement of achieving that outcome impossible. What is perfect fit for one person is hopelessly too small or too big for another. It is the statement of conditions and the achievement that must be crisp, clear and unambiguous. If you don't know what you are aiming for, you will never know if you achieve it.

Try teaching shaping to your dog. As Adara said, if you are trying for the final outcome without rewarding interim steps then you most likely won't get there in your own lifetime (reminiscent of a roomful monkeys with typewriters being able to produce Shakespeare's complete works given an infinite timeframe). The trick is to define the task correctly to determine success or failure - objectively and in black/white terms. Be clear.


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Last edited by vivienne00; 11-26-2012 at 02:54 PM.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 03:21 PM
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Perfection=Q
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman View Post
Perfection=Q
Yes.

For some people it is all about the Q and the QQ.

For others it is about achieving success with a difficult section of the run.

For someone else it is Q and 1st place.

All different but measurable with objective standards.


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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman View Post
Perfection=Q
Um I am lost?
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Vandart View Post
Um I am lost?
Q = Qualifying score/run




"If you're going to be stupid, you better be tough." ~unknown

Last edited by brw1982; 11-26-2012 at 04:47 PM.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Vandart View Post
Um I am lost?
It means you and your partner ran a clean run and under the sct. You scored 100 points.

Personally it's about beating your competition (the course and the clock). It doesn't have to be a pretty run, it doesn't have to be full of difficult crosses, it does have to be about cooperation between dog and handler and overcoming any oopsies in the ring.

Last edited by VZ-Doberman; 11-26-2012 at 05:20 PM.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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Ah I see, cool, thanks.
I thought it was something to do with star trek, maybe I have been watching to much Big bang, lol
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Vandart View Post
Ah I see, cool, thanks.
I thought it was something to do with star trek, maybe I have been watching to much Big bang, lol
Live long and prosper.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman View Post
Perfection=Q
I like that philosophy.

It's also a matter of degrees. A score that I am thrilled to get with Ilka might be an absolute embarrasment to someone else. For example, she has two legs of her CD. A perfect score is 200, and 170 is the minimum acore needed for a Q. Our first leg was a 170 on the nose. Our second was a 177.5. OMG, we've Q'd twice! To someone who thinks that anything under a 195 in Novice is bad (and yes, they do exist), it wasn't even worth going in the ring for. Of course, they aren't training Ilka.


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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:50 PM
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perfection is really going to depend on the person and the dog and what that team is aiming for.

furthermore, i can have a standard of perfection (and for me, yes, that is what i aim for), but still have success in little steps we take on our road there.

and for me, perfection IS potentially unattainable - in the long run, no one can be perfect all the time, just as no dog can be. so for me, the strive for perfection is what makes training so much FUN - because its a non-stop goal. its never-ending, and there is always something i can work on to make it better, to tweak this or that.


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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 10:33 AM
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Some people want instant results. If it doesn't happen right the first time, then, all their efforts have been "wasted". Yeah, there are dogs who get their CD in three straight trials, taking HIT while they're at it. Well, it took Ilka and me 6 times in the ring to get the 1st Q of her CD, and our 2nd Q was our 9th time in the ring. If I was aiming for "perfection", we'd never have set foot in the ring to begin with.

Her last trials are coming up in January. Even if we don't get her last leg, she will be retired from competitive obedience (she's very reactive, and trialing is just too stressful for her). Would I like to get that last leg? Sure, I would. But, even if we don't, she's still done more for me than any other dog I've ever owned.


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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 10:37 AM
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Once again, Matt, I have to point out your "signature" quote.
If you believe that way, then perfection is a personal, objective thing you aim for yourself, by your own standards. Same goes for what you strive for in your dogs.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 12:11 PM
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The best saying I've ever heard about perfection is this.
"Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good."

I try to maintain this attitude when I compete. (Granted I am very new to competition). When my striped dog qualified in Rally Novice with an 11 year old handler (my little from big brothers/big sisters) when neither the child or the dog had ever competed before, I was thrilled! It didn't matter what the score was the kid and the dog got a ribbon and happiness ensued.
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobedream View Post
Once again, Matt, I have to point out your "signature" quote.
If you believe that way, then perfection is a personal, objective thing you aim for yourself, by your own standards. Same goes for what you strive for in your dogs.

I think this is a major problem with me even contemplating titling my dogs in anything really. I really do believe it (within reason) and so have problems with actually setting my goals because of this.

By the way where was the first reference to my signature?

Edit: I am looking for other peoples take on perfection really, when I am working (as in me working nothing to do with dogs) I am an anal perfectionist but this is because I have to live up to other peoples expectations or I don't get paid.

Last edited by Matt Vandart; 11-27-2012 at 01:16 PM.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 01:35 PM
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The time and effort in the training, the results both good and bad when competing.....that's what is important. Qs, titles, etc., just icing on the cake.....the cake being time spent with your dog doing things.

You will lose out on something that can't be gotten when that time comes when you are without your teammate.
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