Obedience Thread

[Asmit]

Originally Posted by doberkim

I can actually see he is neurologic when he walks but I wasn't going to mention it until you did.

You won't find an AKC ring meant for a 31" doberman to stride out, so don't even consider it Believe me, I Know.

Like ellen said, i would tke a quick lesson or have someone familiar with the sport walk you through things piece by piece - as opposed to schutzhund where you can have little pieces wrong and still pass overall, akc obedience is exactly the opposite - you can do everything right and one tiny mistake will absolutely fail you.

THANK YOU! To me it is obvious even watching this video and how he moves. People keep telling me I am crazy and he is perfectly fine when it is obvious he is not. If he could heel how I liked it, he would do it, because he tries his hardest. If he were a young dog, I wouldn't train him to make eye contact in order to be able to maintain straightness.

Haha yes I know you have personal experience with being in the giant doberman club. In the ring I felt I literally had like 2 steps of each pace....

I've got either a seminar or a planned trip to train with a top decoy in the area every single weekend until July in which I have summer classes. I have two dogs to trial in IPO in April (both of which live an hour away from me), and 1 dog to trial in PSA in April. Needless to say, I do not have time to go to any of that group's obedience classes, I will try to talk to someone familiar with everything when it comes closer to competing time. But I likely won't compete with zeus until Fall, so I've got time to figure it all out!

[doberkim]

yeah he walks like berlin most people don't notice it, but i see it in more than a handful of dobes... it makes it VERY hard to heel straight especially if they try to put their heads up!!!!

i got very used to running rah into ring gates because of his size... my trainers keep yelling me i had to alter everything to heel the gigantor, and now i still do it with the littles!

[Asmit]

Originally Posted by doberkim

yeah he walks like berlin most people don't notice it, but i see it in more than a handful of dobes... it makes it VERY hard to heel straight especially if they try to put their heads up!!!!

i got very used to running rah into ring gates because of his size... my trainers keep yelling me i had to alter everything to heel the gigantor, and now i still do it with the littles!

I thought the way Berlin looked reminded me of Zeus's gait.

If AKC were my 'thing' I'd accept the lower head position, but Zeus likes heeling like a wild bafoon so whatever. I'll just ignore the people at trials who tell me I need to fix his heeling haha

What else did you alter because of having a gigantor? Speed? Turns?

[Rosemary]

I'm wondering if anyone here uses different commands for a left and right finish? In working Ilka, I've just used "heel" for both of them, and used a hand signal when I needed to differentiate between left and right (in rally). If I just use "heel" without a signal, she generally does a left finish. However, I've noticed at trials that a lot of handlers used different words for left and right finishes. Would be a good idea to teach Leo two different commands, like "swing" for a left finish, and just use "heel" for a right finish?

[Asmit]

I used to do like you and hand signal if I want a right finish. But in IPO you only do one type of your choice and he preferred left. I and others now use "around" for right heel, and heel/foos for left finish. I don't think it matters how its differentiated but it's obviously confusing if you don't differentiate

[the_discowhore]

Yes I use close for left finish and around for right.

Left finish is only in rally so we don't use it much, a shame as Elsies left finish is really awesome and enthusiastic!

[ellenm]

"heel" for left finish, usually a flip finish for my dogs.
"around" for right finish.

[Rosemary]

Okay, on a related note, would it be a good idea to retrain Ilka to the new command, just to keep everyone the same? Goodness knows I have enough trouble keeping track of what dog I'm working (as in, using the wrong name), let alone which dog has what command.

As for what commands, I'm thinking that if I do retrain Ilka, since she has a really nice left finish with "heel" maybe keep that, and use something else for a right finish? I already use "around" for a left about turn in rally.

[Asmit]

Originally Posted by Rosemary

Okay, on a related note, would it be a good idea to retrain Ilka to the new command, just to keep everyone the same? Goodness knows I have enough trouble keeping track of what dog I'm working (as in, using the wrong name), let alone which dog has what command.

As for what commands, I'm thinking that if I do retrain Ilka, since she has a really nice left finish with "heel" maybe keep that, and use something else for a right finish? I already use "around" for a left about turn in rally.

I wouldn't worry about retraining it. I train 5 dogs in 3 different languages. I get confused sometimes, but it doesn't matter to them at all. Usually it is Zeus who gets the random Czech command thrown at him. I tend to be better with the other dogs. 3 of them are german but also know down for platz (just because of accidentally saying it), and 1 of them is german for everything except down. Zeus is english for everything except down as well in which platz means 'lay down NOW straightly' and down means 'just get in a laying position and stay there'. My dogs are maybe smarter than I am though.

Whatever works for Ilka is what I would stick with. In the future, I will only use German commands, but when it comes down to actually retraining the word, I don't think it's worth it. Unless she just 'picks up' on it or you are repeatedly messing up and confusing her.

[EmilyAnne]

Slightly off topic but still related to different words for different commands...

A woman who shows in my area uses "Strut!" as her heel command. I smile every time I hear it. I think I will definitely use that with my next dog, just because it's so fun, and I think it conveys nicely the enthusiasm I'm hoping for when my dogs heel.

[the_discowhore]

I know someone that uses splat for drop, its pretty cute!

[Rosemary]

There is a lady down here who used "strut" for "heel".

Another lady uses "rocket" for the send away for directed jumping.

"Splat"! I love it.

I use "taa taa" instead of "give".

After thinking about it a bit, I think I'll train Leo using "swing" for a left finish, and "heel" for a right.

[Rosemary]

Hey, Disco, I was reading the NZKC obedience regulations, and am wondering what a "combination turn" is.

[doberkim]

Originally Posted by Asmit

I thought the way Berlin looked reminded me of Zeus's gait.

If AKC were my 'thing' I'd accept the lower head position, but Zeus likes heeling like a wild bafoon so whatever. I'll just ignore the people at trials who tell me I need to fix his heeling haha

What else did you alter because of having a gigantor? Speed? Turns?

Lots of things - i had to stop using footwork for halts because I never got time to do a "brake/plant/halt". I also had to measure out exactly how much space Rah needed to take jumps and unlike many handlers that just don't think about their dogs stride, I would have to measure out and memorize where I would have to stand for exercises that involved jumping. I also practiced quick about turns to get him out of my way and also practiced really exaggerating the tuck in the inner post of the fig 8. ALSO because he was so fast, I had to practice dropping very far away, and very close.

Originally Posted by Rosemary

I'm wondering if anyone here uses different commands for a left and right finish? In working Ilka, I've just used "heel" for both of them, and used a hand signal when I needed to differentiate between left and right (in rally). If I just use "heel" without a signal, she generally does a left finish. However, I've noticed at trials that a lot of handlers used different words for left and right finishes. Would be a good idea to teach Leo two different commands, like "swing" for a left finish, and just use "heel" for a right finish?

My dogs have a different command for each of them- though generally the dogs pick which one they prefer and I stop practicing the others with them. Rah never did a left finish (ON PURPOSE) in the ring, though he did it twice when I asked for a right finish. IN fact when he competed in rally, I had to often redo left finishes - when we were showing in the tournament I had to change his left finish to a "set up" and would tell him get close to fool him because no matter what I said he would do a right! Berlin only did left, Chill will do left, and Cherry will do right. What one they like the most, do the best, and will get them there straight and perfect every time

Originally Posted by EmilyAnne

Slightly off topic but still related to different words for different commands...

A woman who shows in my area uses "Strut!" as her heel command. I smile every time I hear it. I think I will definitely use that with my next dog, just because it's so fun, and I think it conveys nicely the enthusiasm I'm hoping for when my dogs heel.

That's Teri arnold influence there - she uses strut and many of the people who started with her still do. My trainers do - I still use fuss, or nothing at all.

[the_discowhore]

Rosemary a combination turn is a couple of turns put together to be performed at the same time e.g. about turn left turn... So you do an about turn but instead if walking forward out if the turn you immediately make a left turn.

[the_discowhore]

If you watch the obedience judging from Crufts you will see lots of combinations turns... UK obedience is very similar to NZKC obedience in terms of the layout of the sport, they also have working trials and the judging of heelwork is very similar.

crufts

[Asmit]

Argo Retrieve - YouTube

Working on Argos retrieve. I LOVED the last one. Had to edit out one because his front was bad and I had to go back and work on that. He's coming along. We've got the jump now, will make an updated video soon.

[the_discowhore]

Ok obedience people... Stay!

How often do you train stays? Do you train a longer stay than what you do in the ring? I hate stay training, what am I supposed to do for that time? Drink an alcoholic beverage so I stop worrying that Elsie is bored?? At this stage she is not a stay breaker, but I have never done more than 3 minutes.

I want to enter CD in June which has a 5 minute out of sight down stay, and UD in October or November which has a 10 minute out of sight down stay. 10 minutes is a loooong time.....

[Asmit]

I do a lot of going back to the dog every few minutes or so. I move around, I do things, I try to be distracting, I try to encourage movement. As it gets closer to trial time, I practice out of sight stays to where the dog can not see me but I can see them. But for that, I also have the added reliability of an e-collar 'just incase' which you do not use. I also will use verbal 'ah-ah' if I notice the dog shifting around or reinforce the 'platz' if I anticipate them about to start shifting around. Stay close enough to where YOU can see and/or communicate to them, but to where they can not actually see you.

If youre bored doing it at your house, take the dog to a busy store. I like to teach long downs RIGHT in front of the doorways to where people are almost stepping on the dog. I have not once worried about my dogs breaking the downs after all is said and done.

[Rosemary]

I just glanced at the regulations, but didn't see if the stays are done as a group or individually. In AKC, they are done as a group, with anywhere from one (if it's a class of one) to a dozen dogs in the ring at a time.

[the_discowhore]

Yeah they are always in groups here, always at least 5 dogs and in working trials they combine the classes so can be pretty big groups! Elsie doesn't have a stay issue but I'm just nervous about it, 10 minutes seems so crazy lol

[ajp240]

Originally Posted by txsaphire

I have to keep it fun with Sabrina or she'll get her airplane ears on.

You just described what I have recently discovered. Brooklyn will be 12 months old in a couple weeks and is starting to get light pressure with (schutzhund) obedience.

For example, when we taught the sit out of motion, I had someone walking behind me holding the leash attached to her prong. I'd say sit, she'd sit, and if she broke, she would get a light pop and I would put her back into sit. This probably happened a total of five times and she gets it. However, I can tell she feels pressured. Her ears go into "airplane" ears. I try to keep obedience fun, but it is clear she is thinking hard or slightly unhappy when she isn't next to me.

My bigger concern is the platz out of motion. She doesn't fully get it yet without a ton of hand help, and it is especially worse when we are training out on the field. She breaks a ton. I have taken some steps back and gotten more basic, but know that she is going to need some pressure to stay in the platz.

I don't want airplane ears when we get to trial level. My question is- will this go away as she gets more comfortable with the exercises? I don't think we can get through learning schutzhund obedience with zero corrections. Second question is- do judges recognize the airplane ears as meaning the dog feels pressured? I don't want to be dinged for my dog looking unhappy during certain exercises. I will add that, heeling, etc is all fantastic, no airplane ears. Just the sit and down out of motion.

[Rosemary]

Hmmm.... me thinks we need a lot more practice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whh9NKqqQCw Especially since the cat and the neighbor across the street were more interesting than Mommy. Actually, this is the first training session we've had in several weeks, and she is a low drive (and not all that food or toy motivated, either) dog, so I can't complain too much.

ETA: I guess it helps if I post the link.

[the_discowhore]

A little obedience video of Elsie today, short but took SO LONG TO UPLOAD (hence my other thread about video cameras!). I'm going to enter her in CD in June, have a private obedience lesson in May before then, and we have done a full CD walk-through without any rewards and she did really well

We need to work on getting nice straight sits in retrieves again, she has been breaking waits for retrieves lately so I have been less fussy on position and obsessing about holding waits... Fix one thing, something else goes!



In the process of uploading a heel video too...

[the_discowhore]

Finally, heel video! I still need to work on walking in a straight line LOL but I am getting better