the_discowhore

Since this is now a post your obedience thread... Me and Elsie getting some practice in before nationals this weekend... I am a bag of nerves right now!!!

17/10/12

We finally made it to rally training for the first time in weeks last night, she surprised me... Did a whole rally course without food/toys, kept her head up and her tail wagging... If we can get that for half of an obedience routine I will be pleased! Attention span is slowly growing... slowly.......

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Matt Vandart

Cool, love it !

I like the bit at 1:16 when she comes around so fast but nicely.

Good Elsie indeed!

Matt Vandart

Oh dear, this sounds familiar towards the end:

much

Matt Vandart

This is way cool:

heel

Now a question. The first thing he does is teach the turns and pivots stationary, how the hell do you do that part, like how do you get the dog to do it so close and accurate?

Matt Vandart

Thought I best post a vid of Tilly seeing as all the OB has been Becca

tilly

lelise

Here is my video of Diego heeling from the other thread:

video

I want fast sits and downs so I pop him with the collar to encourage that. If I have food I don't really need to use the leash at all, but because this is a ball he is very focused on it and expects me to release it at anytime. You can see when I heel in the group I release the ball and he comes up so fast he actually bit my vest. He still has to learn how to work for the toy reward...eventually I want to see him doing it on his own without a leash correction, but you have to show them what you want first before you expect that.

With Bridgett's video, I can't really say why she does that with the leash. I haven't ever been to a seminar of her's or seen her work in person...though I would like to! It looks to me like she is encouraging upward motion so that the dog stays right at her hip instead of forging ahead.

Very nice video of Tilly by the way!

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"Utility is the true criterion for beauty."-Captain Max von Stephanitz

Hurtan iz Galakuan BH OB1 TR1

adhahn

Try using a board/book/platform of some sort for the dog to place his front feet on. If you do some searching on youtube I'm sure there are videos that show teaching pivoting. It can be done with a leash, but the platform method is more along the lines of positive motivational type training.


Tilly looks like she's doing well!

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"We cannot lose sight of the fact that Schutzhund is a BREED SUITABILITY test or we do a disservice to the German Shepherd dog. Conscientious breeders should train and test their bloodlines...not simple be in the "puppy business". " -- Gunther Diegel

doberkim

she's not jiggling the leash/collar - she's tapping the dogs chin. she uses is as a training method so she can later us it as a correction for failure for the dog to maintain head position as a drive builder.

its just another correction that we originally dont train as a correction so the dogs drive is not lessened when they receive the correction, and they also understand how to correct themselves to be right.

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doberkim

she doest it later on in the video without any leash in her hand.

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Matt Vandart

Thanks! Yay, some positive reinforcement for me

Thanks Kim, I sorta figured it was something like that but couldn't work out the logic of it.

lelise

Ah, now I see. Very interesting...I would love to go to one of her seminars some day.

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"Utility is the true criterion for beauty."-Captain Max von Stephanitz

Hurtan iz Galakuan BH OB1 TR1

Matt Vandart

attempting to teach becca rotating:

rotate

Matt Vandart

Tilly (and me) learning German, lolz.

tilly

Did I get them right?

Asmit

Matt- on the rotating video. One of the biggest things to remember while doing that is to always keep your hand with the food in the center of the step. By not doing this at times, you are pulling her off of the platform. I kept wondering why I couldn't get clean turns, and this was it. Your hands needs to fixed along an imaginary pole attached directly above the platform/the dog's nose. if you're moving it back and forth, rather than turning, that's exactly what your dogs will do.

I'm going to start an OB thread since we had so many good videos shared here.

Matt Vandart

Ah, thanks, I was wondering why that kept happening!
I will try again tomorrow!

Matt Vandart

Nothing to do with loss of bite but this thread is totally derailed anyway..

Built a jump, Becca and Tilly jumped it, tilly had never jumped before really before this session so that went well, jumping over stuff is old hat for Bex.
turn your monitor sound down the wind noise is horrific, tail end of that storm I spose.

jump

by the way their drive is building by the day, especially Tilly but what a pain the ass they have become!

Matt Vandart

Took Tilly to the club, Beccas in season so couldn't go.
It was fun but you would have sworn that Tilly had never heeled in her life for the first half hour!

She is getting so excited now that helicopters are a regular occurrence, what should I be doing about that?

Edit: Oh and I met the most amazing doberman I have ever met/seen in real life there, he was absolutely stunning and awesome!

The main woman there had no problem with Tilly's temperament but said to me she would be better at like police work than sport stuff

Matt Vandart

On the OP:

Beccas bite is back and solid again through prey, just did everything suggested and the problem seems to be solved....for now.

Tilly is another matter, try as I might and I did exactly the same as Becca, she will not take a good grip through prey, however I thought I would try putting MORE pressure on her, pushing into her with my whole body, lifting her high and pushing into her, shouting and getting 'growly' , slapping her sides etc. and she grips like a bull terrier.
What the hell is going on?

Thanks for any advice.

Asmit

Some dogs just need to be more worked up over it to be that interested. Did you try just teasing her with it? Slapping her sides with the tug and not your hand? I honestly don't think she's going into 'defense' playing tug with you.

Please Please buy this DVD Leerburg | The Power of Playing Tug with Your Dog DVD It will help you a ton.

Matt Vandart

I should bloody hope not too!

I think maybe it just makes the game more fun for her, bit more exciting as you say.
It's all very bizarre though, biting stuff used to be her favourite game.
I'm wondering if she has been thinking that I don't want her to bite it, maybe someone has been shouting at them for grabbing stuff in their hands, I'm not the only one that deals with these two after all.
Maybe my positive reaction is encouraging her she is doing correctly.
Maybe she is just 'over' biting stuff.
Ah well not to worry.

Rosamburg

The lifting is one thing from the sound of things that you might be doing right. Teaching a dog to pull is the surest method of retaining a good grip. Therefore you do not want to "push in", but rather "pull away". The dog must feel there is resistance to the tug or it will likely let go. At the same time you must be sensitive to the amount of resistance the dog is exerting and reward it by winning when it is sufficiently pulling. This is part of the value of the dog allowing to "carry" the tug. Try to apply some resistance to the tug while he is carrying it as well. Other methods, besides pulling the dog off the ground a bit for teaching it to pull might be lightly stepping on its toes (it learns to move its front feet away from you) or by blowing in his face. These are some tricks you can try.

The dog must also always win, as well, to build confidence. In addition the "pulling" sensation transfers over later to working on a helper. They MUST learn to do this to be able to stop the helper and show a high level of hindering, which is what you want for a final picture. A good judge will dock significant points if the dog is just along for the ride on the helper, even if it is technically maintaining a good solid grip.

Slapping the dogs side while they are pulling is good as well but many dogs have to be built up to this point. Later they will better be able to handle stick pressure. I want to get to the point where the amount of pressure I am applying when play/rewarding is much more than they are likely to encounter from a helper in terms of stick hits.

Matt Vandart

Awesome thanks for the advice!
I will try it all out.

Edit: I meant pushing in with my body/knee whilst pulling the tug away if you get me, sorta sideyways.

Rosamburg

Here is a clip of some work we were doing last year. Also notice that generally the dog's drive is not initiated by prey. Prey would be defined by pre-bite, non direct movement by the helper. We were working at the time of building up of post bite pressure and cleaning up her tendency to be dirty pre-bite.

steveB.avi - YouTube

the_discowhore

Thanks for sharing Rosamburg - very interesting! It's cool to be able to see some training videos, instead of just dogs at trials, as someone who does not have access to clubs it's a good experience to be able to see some of the training that goes on.

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Matt Vandart

I second that, thanks loads!