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Old 06-19-2011, 01:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Looking for Personal Protection Dog Reputable Sources

I'm looking for a respectable, widely renowned and recommended place to get a personal protection Doberman. I had thought a puppy would be my best choice but a few days ago I found out here that I am definitely not a puppy person. So, now I've decided to get an already adult, personal protection dog and I want a Doberman.
I want to know of a place where I can get one and not have wasted my money. Before you ask, I know the difference between Schutzhund and Personal Protection. Shutzhund is a sport using a bite sleeve and Personal Protection is training the dog to use more than just his mouth and to bite any and everywhere, including the arm holding a weapon (recognizing a weapon to keep them disarmed) and to disarm the agitator.
So, any advise on this matter would be greatly appreciated. I need the dog before the end of the year/beginning of next. I'm not opposed to importing. So, I've got a little time and before you ask I do have the money and the need of one.
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:12 AM   #2 (permalink)
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A GSD or Mal would be much easier to find and much cheaper. There are a number of places for those breeds.

Good luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I am serious here. You would be a lot better off buying a gun.

I have been very active in the breed for nearly 40 years and I cannot think of even one reputable person that you describe. On the other hand, there are dozens or even hundreds of fly by night, half assed dog trainers in the US that claim to train Personal Protectction dogs, but are a lot more interested in seperating you from your money than delivereing the kind of Doberman that you are asking for. Actually, there may be a few serious people like this that train GSDs or Malis, but these type of people won't mess with Dobermans for the temperament reasons mentioned in another thread. It is not that no Dobermans can do it, but there are a higher percentage of GSDs and Malinois that make honest PP dogs than Dobes and why put all of that training in a dog that washes out in the end? You won't be any better going overseas, in fact it will likely be a lot more uncertain. Most people that first have a Doberman with the required temperament and second, put the necessary training into it to have the kind of dog you want, are unlikely to sell it at any price.

Again, since it seems that you want a four legged robot rather than a protective companion and want to take the easy way out by buying a dog that others have put the time investment in rather than making the personal committment yourself, I would recommend that you just buy a gun and get a conceal and carry permit. If you really need the protection, it will be a lot more sure.
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Old 06-19-2011, 06:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
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you'll have a hard time finding an adult.
you also have to make sure to find a good personal protection trainer- which is not easy to find.

I'd recommend vom Landgraf if you want to consider a dobe that will really get the job done.
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRN9694 View Post
I'm looking for a respectable, widely renowned and recommended place to get a personal protection Doberman. I had thought a puppy would be my best choice but a few days ago I found out here that I am definitely not a puppy person. So, now I've decided to get an already adult, personal protection dog and I want a Doberman.
I want to know of a place where I can get one and not have wasted my money. Before you ask, I know the difference between Schutzhund and Personal Protection. Shutzhund is a sport using a bite sleeve and Personal Protection is training the dog to use more than just his mouth and to bite any and everywhere, including the arm holding a weapon (recognizing a weapon to keep them disarmed) and to disarm the agitator.
So, any advise on this matter would be greatly appreciated. I need the dog before the end of the year/beginning of next. I'm not opposed to importing. So, I've got a little time and before you ask I do have the money and the need of one.
Just to address your broad sweeping generalization here...

1) There are plenty of dogs that train in schutzhund that have no problem engaging when no sleeve is present.

2) There are schutzhund trainers that also utilize suits and hidden sleeves in training, it's not always all sleeve all the time.

I can't think of anyone ethical / reputable that would have an adult Doberman ready to go. If that's what you're looking for, as mentioned it'd be much easier to get a GSD, Malinos, or even American Bulldog for that matter. If you're insistent on a Doberman I'd suggest you find the trainer first and allow them to handle finding the dog on your behalf.
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
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You might contact John Soares. He sells trained dogs and he has quite a list of accomplishments with various breeds and has competed very successfully with Dobes specifically.

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"We firmly believe in the ability of our trained dogs. However, the perception that a trained dog will respond like a robot...is not how we like to advertise this service. The ability to influence a trained dog by commands is well founded. But trained dogs are far from being programmed machines. We advocate consideration for how the dog feels and thinks. Reality is that dogs are living, breathing beings like all of us they deserve consideration and respect. We do not promise machines...that would be unrealistic, unsafe, unfair to our dog and to you as a new owner. "
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Yes, I totally agree with Kansadobe.
OP - your other thread I'm Looking for a Specific Type of Doberman, Breeder, and Bloodlines
and this thread are a bit troubling.
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:53 AM   #8 (permalink)
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From your other thread, you said you were looking for a pair of male pups. Now you say you just realized you are not a puppy person and want a trained adult Doberman for PP.

What makes you say you are not a puppy person? Do you not like the trouble of training a pup? In your other thread you say you grew up with the "feared breeds" - so did you never interact with them as pups or just not involved in their upbringing? It makes me wonder how much experience you actually have had.
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Old 06-19-2011, 11:18 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Here you go:

https://kraftwerkk9.com/category/dog...rained-adults/

Expect to pay 13,000+ for a serious trained dog. By the way these are shepherds for sale.
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Old 06-19-2011, 11:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I would highly, highly recommend against this... From your other thread, you have zero doberman experience. Dogs are not just "trained", it's a continual, ongoing process. Do you have the skills to work with a high drive, trained doberman? What knowledge do you have of protection dobermans?

Your best bet is to either start with a puppy, which you don't want to do, or get a LAID BACK doberman as your first. Otherwise, you're setting yourself up for big failure...

This would be similar to having no police, military, or other type of training, and then being dropped off in the middle of the war with someone telling you "best of luck bud".

Ok, maybe you won't die with your new doberman... But it's a really, really bad idea, and same like the other post, I don't see too many reputable breeders giving a pre-trained protection dog to someone with no experience. Like Kansa said, someone that has put in the work and has a doberman at the level you are looking for will most definitely not want to let them go, and especially to someone without any experience. Just not gonna happen.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRN9694 View Post
I'm looking for a respectable, widely renowned and recommended place to get a personal protection Doberman. I had thought a puppy would be my best choice but a few days ago I found out here that I am definitely not a puppy person. So, now I've decided to get an already adult, personal protection dog and I want a Doberman.
I want to know of a place where I can get one and not have wasted my money. Before you ask, I know the difference between Schutzhund and Personal Protection. Shutzhund is a sport using a bite sleeve and Personal Protection is training the dog to use more than just his mouth and to bite any and everywhere, including the arm holding a weapon (recognizing a weapon to keep them disarmed) and to disarm the agitator.
So, any advise on this matter would be greatly appreciated. I need the dog before the end of the year/beginning of next. I'm not opposed to importing. So, I've got a little time and before you ask I do have the money and the need of one.
You could not be more wrong. I speak from experience - 4 of my 6 dobes are PP trained and every one in the past was PP trained because that is what we do. A PP dog is trained to bite anywhere and to bite a person - meaning without equipment. "use more than just his mouth"??? What, dogs can use their paws? Where did you get that?
It would be extremely rare for such a dog to ever be sent on an armed person. Even police dogs are rarely sent on an armed person. Between the dog and the gun, the dog is always going to lose. Anyone who would tell you different is out fo their mind. Who on earth would put that much money, time, and training into a dog only to send it to be killed. Spend some time looking at police K9 training videos.
Importing such a dog would be foolish. Not only will you almost guaranteed not get what you pay for, but in order to maintain this training, you must have a very good trainer. My husband, Patrick has several such clients where he must travel every few months to "wake the dog up". that is because even those who think they have a real need for such a dog in reality, rarely, if ever use it.
Personally, I think you are just having fun on the forum here, but if you are serious, you have a lot of research to do before you get any dog - puppy or adult.
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
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KRN, you'll definitely find greeders who *say* they have what you want, and they will willingly part you with just as much of your money as they read you being able to be suckered for.

There are websites out there who claim to have the bestest, fiercest, guardiest Dobermans alive, who will also bring you breakfast in bed and take the 4 AM feeding of your infant child, all without training or titling, but just because they "have the finest lines."

Frankly, with the lack of knowledge you're displaying at this point, I'd take a bet you'll end up purchasing from one of those places, and it won't end well for dog or humans.
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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KRN, you'll definitely find greeders who *say* they have what you want, and they will willingly part you with just as much of your money as they read you being able to be suckered for.

There are websites out there who claim to have the bestest, fiercest, guardiest Dobermans alive, who will also bring you breakfast in bed and take the 4 AM feeding of your infant child, all without training or titling, but just because they "have the finest lines."

Frankly, with the lack of knowledge you're displaying at this point, I'd take a bet you'll end up purchasing from one of those places, and it won't end well for dog or humans.
Really want the breakfast in bed training. All of mine would just eat it.
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:38 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You know...the last time I saw a series of post similar to this one by the OP I figured out that it was a guy I'd actually met years ago--a California marijuana grower who was dead serious about wanting a PP type dog.

He usually bred his own but needed to find a new bitch so that he could outcross since he had by that time a very inbred line. But he actually knew a lot about Dobes, training and breeding--could and did raise puppies and trained them as well.

Maybe I could track the California pot growers e-mail addy down and offer to put the two of them in touch with each other. ROFLMA--just thinking about it.

I'm with Kansa--get a gun. You don't know enough about training and maintaining a PP dog to end up with anything except a dead dog.
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Old 06-19-2011, 03:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
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"use more than just his mouth"??? What, dogs can use their paws?
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Old 06-22-2011, 05:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I know i am new to the forum, but here is my response to another guys thread on here...figured i'd copy and paste it rather then retyping as it covers your inquire perfectly! You'd regret not getting in touch with this guys. He is a close friend after having sent two dogs and has a VERY reputable resume in the world of protection dog training. I'd never send any of my dogs anywhere else. I've seen countless "protection trained dogs" in direct comparison to his. We are talking 18k+ dogs, and NONE of them even compared to what he produces!


K9 Good Manners

I would HIGHLY recommend John Smithhart from k9 Good Manners. I've sent 2 of my dogs to him and im in the process of getting a euro import from him, which will also be fully protection trained by him. He is one of the very best in the industry and trains dogs both nation wide and internationally. In fact, he has a few Dobi's he is working with right now as we speak. Couldn't recommend him enough, no matter what your needs! Shoot him an email or give him a call, you wont be disappointed! Since getting my dogs trained by him we have become really great friends and all his work is lifetime guaranteed.
Tell him Leighton sent you if you call, he will take AMAZING care for you!
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:34 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incredibledobe View Post
"use more than just his mouth"??? What, dogs can use their paws? Where did you get that?
You're forgetting DOBERGAS! More lethal than mustard gas and able to clear a cave full of Al-Qaeda in a single application.....armed offenders don't stand a chance against it!
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:45 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Having a PP dog is like having a loaded gun.
I believe you have to be very knowledgable about your dog and very responsible.
You have to have complete control over your dog and know how to handle him/her.
I hope you know what you are doing
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:49 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Can anyone pass along von's phone # ?
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