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Old 10-21-2010, 12:57 AM   #76 (permalink)
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I think, personally, a lot of the icy exterior clubs tend to put on helps keep people without the perseverance and dedication out of their clubs. I think it's common for clubs to want to include good, quality people into their group of friends and a part of that is weeding out the people who just can't commit to the sport. I always thought of joining a club as asking complete strangers to be your friends and mentors. That kind of magic doesn't happen overnight. You need to get to know someone first and flesh them out a bit. Some members are just more social than others.

I've never felt like an "omega bitch" for being humble, easy going, and eager to learn but that's just me. I found an awesome group of people this way and I'm very happy that, despite how shy I am, I followed through. I haven't become friends with everyone yet, some are still a bit chilly, but I am still learning and exploring my sport of choice and know that, eventually, I will actually get to know everyone and fit right in.

It makes me sad to see you burning bridges, especially in an area that is known to have very little clubs to begin with. I hope you can find something suitable to you and your dog and wish you luck with something that works.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:13 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Some people never grow up, can't handle criticism, refuse to face the truth regardless of how wrong they are because they think it would be weak to do so, and think the world owes them something. This is prime example. I sure know I wouldn't want some one like that to train with. Next think you know if things don't progress well for her dog it will all be the club's fault.

MOC, now you're complaining that people asked you about your dog? So what if you didn't offer that info, they were just making polite conversation. If they then told you that you'd be up a creek with no paddle with your show line dobe was very much typical and very realistic helpful advice from any typical person with working dog experience who meant well. You need to be able to be aware of your dog's strengths and weaknesses if you're to approach your training honestly. And being in complete denial about the weaknesses and the hardships you may encounter in the future because of them is only going to hinder your training.

Who ever told you that you're better off to get a show line dog as your first time working prospect couldn't be further from the truth. A show line for a pet home where the dog isn't expected to do work and the handler is a complete novice, maybe. So you were given wrong advice to begin with. You didn't do the proper research yourself to find out how wrong that advice was, and now you're attacking those who point this out to you.

And if the comment about you joining a schutzhund club because you wanted a personal protection dog is true.. my oh my are you ever even more uneducated about all this then you've already demonstrated.

If you think that this is about an issue of you having to "back down now and playbow for these people" you'll never get far with any training club unless you can get over your phobias and overly defensive-aggressive attitude. Bottom line is that regardless of how the message was delivered, all of these people were only trying to help you. It's sad you can't see it as that and continue to burn bridges and bite every hand that reaches out to help you.

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Old 10-21-2010, 08:32 AM   #78 (permalink)
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You know one thing that strikes my as odd here is the number of posters that created account in this forum simply to post some slam at MurderOfCrows or her ideals. Where did these people come from? What is their motive? Are they here to discuss the breed, ask questions, offer advice, and concern themselves with the betterment of the breed? Or...are they here simply to slam MOC?

If they are here simply to slam MOC, than I have to wonder who doesn't have thick skin. Why would one be so offended by a post they didn't see that they had to create an account and post in this one particular thread to slam the OP in return. This stinks of mob mentality.

As I posted earlier, club mentality is to weed out those that don't fit in. It looks like this/these clubs are so tight they talk about posts in this forum and all come to this forum to defend their club mentality. They seem pretty tight and unified in their attack of MOC.

How about this idea: Y'all have said your piece. You don't need to have another member join up in this forum just to take a shot at her. Your piece is known, valid points have been made, every one knows where you stand. Let's leave it at that unless provoked further.
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:25 AM   #79 (permalink)
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This is all so childish and ridiculous. Who cares if MOC brags about her future puppy when she VISITS a schutzhund club! She's excited and you people just berate her for her choice of lines and even the BREED that she chose! Good grief, I'm glad you're not the club where I train! How obnoxious!

My dog is from the same breeder as MOC and the members of the club that I attend have never been anything but nice, encouraging and helpful.

I knew from the beginning that my girl will probably never do bitework and the trainer confirmed this but there are so many other elements that dobes can and excel in competition. What about a BH or OB-1 or TRACKING? Dobermans are wonderful trackers! Besides, obedience is the foundation for everything.

We have mostly GSD's, 2 rotties, a malinois and actually 4 dobermans counting mine.
The main thing is my dog LOVES going there and working and she LOVES the trainer.

We strictly do obedience and will soon start tracking. We also stand on the sidelines to watch some of the puppies do their bitework. It's all to LEARN because everyone was a beginner once.

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Old 10-21-2010, 11:38 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by txsaphire View Post
This is all so childish and ridiculous. Who cares if MOC brags about her future puppy when she VISITS a schutzhund club! She's excited and you people just berate her for her choice of lines and even the BREED that she chose! Good grief, I'm glad you're not the club where I train! How obnoxious!

My dog is from the same breeder as MOC and the members of the club that I attend have never been anything but nice, encouraging and helpful.

I knew from the beginning that my girl will probably never do bitework and the trainer confirmed this but there are so many other elements that dobes can and excel in competition. What about a BH or OB-1 or TRACKING? Dobermans are wonderful trackers! Besides, obedience is the foundation for everything.

We have mostly GSD's, 2 rotties, a malinois and actually 4 dobermans counting mine.
The main thing is my dog LOVES going there and working and she LOVES the trainer.

We strictly do obedience and will soon start tracking. We also stand on the sidelines to watch some of the puppies do their bitework. It's all to LEARN because everyone was a beginner once.

The difference here is that you accepted your dog may have short comings and are realistic about it. MOC didn't and took harmless and honest comments made against her dog too personally and in turn nastily attacked those people on a personal level for making those statements about her dog while not even having the basic understanding of the sport and what it takes for a dog to succeed in it.

I don't think the other people have had any issues with her, her choice of dog, or it's lines, other then pointing out to her it was a poor choice for the sport (which she really should have taken as creative criticism coming from some one far more experienced). It's her nasty reaction and bad mouthing of their club members that elicited their response on here. I think they have every right to come on here and defend their club members who only offered help and were instead publicly bad mouthed and personally insulted on an internet forum with the likely assumption that they would not see those comments and would not be here to defend themselves.

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Old 10-21-2010, 12:21 PM   #81 (permalink)
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I don't think the other people have had any issues with her, her choice of dog, or it's lines, other then pointing out to her it was a poor choice for the sport (which she really should have taken as creative criticism coming from some one far more experienced).
None of us know for sure how any of this was said. We cannot say for sure whether MOC was snotty or the club members were just plain rude with a holier than thou type behavior. Most of us don't care enough to try and find out. However, having experience being around members of schutzhund clubs (though not one myself), I can safely believe they practically made fun of her choice. Most of it was probably behind her back, and maybe some tried to "educate" her to their point.

Quote:
It's her nasty reaction and bad mouthing of their club members that elicited their response on here. I think they have every right to come on here and defend their club members who only offered help and were instead publicly bad mouthed and personally insulted on an internet forum with the likely assumption that they would not see those comments and would not be here to defend themselves.
Point is understood. She came to what she considered a safe place to vent about what she had experienced. Most people on here are adults and capable of determining what they want to believe about her experience. There was no need to circle the wagons to defend its honor to a bunch of people that don't even live near Utah. I highly doubt her experience will cause the membership levels of the club deteriorate. I also highly doubt that the defense of these clubs will increase it. It is pointless.

Look. Bottom line is she came to a place she felt comfortable to discuss her experience. Many others, including myself, told her that we felt she was being a bit too sensitive about it. Then, a bunch of people who are relatively unknown come out of no where to berate one of the members of this forum without consideration or care that perhaps this would be a hostile environment to them. Now, we know it is not hostile to them, but to not care and barge on in with their first posts being attacks without so much as an introduction in most forums I know would constitute an instant ban. Sounds like an attack, not a defense to me. It is a kind of risky strategy, too. This means is is being conducted by emotion, not well thought-out strategic planning.
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:26 PM   #82 (permalink)
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How about this idea: Y'all have said your piece. You don't need to have another member join up in this forum just to take a shot at her. Your piece is known, valid points have been made, every one knows where you stand. Let's leave it at that unless provoked further.

Very well stated, now let it be.
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:09 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Oh no what will we do? From what I saw you need $200 more then we do!

I know maybe you could try French Ring LMAO
I'm sorry, I'm not taking sides here but what kind of a statement was this to make?
You just made ANY person on this site interested in ScH run because you just proved how egotistical and know-it-all people can be in these types of sports.

I ride in the jumper circuit - I KNOW snobby, back stabbing, rude, etc.
I have never met any dog people as bad as horse people yet. I went to a ScH trial with my trainer and although not a lot of people were there with open arms, nobody was rude - that's all I care about.

The comment you made here sounds like a petty 14 year old making nasty comments about a birthday party.
Maybe you could try the French Ring - hardy har har. Just plain silly.
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:14 PM   #84 (permalink)
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As for how people have an issue with how MOC dealt with things - not saying she is right or wrong but I find it hard to believe that no one here can relate.

She is proud of her new Dobebaby. Regardless if comments were made to help or harm her - she's not ready for that kind of criticsm yet because her Dobe is "new and shiny" to her. That's like being proud of your son playing soccer for the first time, no matter how badly he may have played and the coach telling you that maybe your kid should play with 3 year-olds.
I know a dog and a child can't be held at the same face value, but that was the best example I could come up with! lol

None of us were there, none of us can make real judgement.
I'm just saying I can see why MOC could be defensive and I could see why the people at the ScH club could defensive too.

I'm just bewildered at that comment I quoted...
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:33 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Oh no what will we do? From what I saw you need $200 more then we do!

I know maybe you could try French Ring LMAO

Im sorry, but in my opinion this comment is rude and completely uncalled for! Why would you say something like this directly to someone??

Where did you learn your manners??
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:50 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Oh no what will we do? From what I saw you need $200 more then we do!

I know maybe you could try French Ring LMAO
Ok schutzhund fan, thats a bit of a low blow, and uncalled for. You are here representing your club/clubs, and the sport of schutzhund, and I have to say you were doing a pretty good job up until now. This makes us all look like a bunch of brash full of ourselves mightier than though idiots. I know you said it probably out of frustration and a sense of defensiveness about your club, but we know your better than that. I also agree that while murder might have been a little sensitive to the issues at hand and acted out in a defensive manner on the forum and seemed to be attacking your club/clubs about their air of snobbiness etc, we should remember that it is true that within this sport we can xometimes seem to be a bit cliquish or hardcore even, and come of as brash sometimes to newcomers, I still think you could have come here and pointed out her mistakes in a good polite way, while teaching her about the sport and club, and probably come away with a person who would give the sport their all. After all, you have to remember, we were all noobs once, and we all had to take that first step, and we have all made many many mistakes in the course.

I also want to state that I personally work a GSD bitch who is from working lines, and I also am working a male Dobe, from euro show/working lines.



I hope you take this in the light in which it was meant.

thanks,
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:50 PM   #87 (permalink)
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MoC doesn't even have her dog yet? She acts like she and her dog have been personally offended. Let it slide off your back. Like my previous post, for many fields and professions, the more you learn the more you realize you didn't know much and the more you understand why someone said something which at the time you didn't have a clue, altho you thought you understood.
Example - people looking at the aesthetics of a bridge and seeing it from a totally different viewpoint of an engineer who sees why that bridge is standing and why it is unusual or not. Another example - people watching ballet and having absolutly no idea what is involved. The detail, the precision, timing and strength and then to add on musicality and artistry. I am not saying that people can't enjoy the bridge or the ballet but that the more one gets into any field, the more one realizes how much more there is than what first meets the eye. The same goes dog training at each level. How many people get their first dog and think their dog is perfect at walking during that first week only to find that they (the person) had no clue. Training, learning, all these things go on continuously every day. That's why we keep reinforcing what our dogs have learned and practicing what we have learned - in hopes of getting it better.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:05 PM   #88 (permalink)
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And then there were the rednecks.

I sort of expected this-- but there was a pack of blue collar men who asked me a few questions and then began to deride me for my dog choice, why'd I chose a show line, anybody who told me i couldn't work a working line dog is stupid, you can't expect to do shutz with a show line dog, btw this breeder (Von Ryan?) is the only working line dobe to buy from any all other dogs are crap.

I'm really hoping these guys are Ogden based so I don't have to see them often down in Salt Lake. They were quite repulsive and very rude. When I countered with my research and my breeder's accomplishments (and that many of Michelle's dogs title in agilty, etc) they dismissed it and continued to tell me, basically, how stupid I was.

So, folks: How do you let the haters hate and resist the urge to rub bacon on their bite suit's crotch?


I'm the original founding member of Wasatch Hundesport and left in 07 to move to NC. That repulsive redneck you refer to is a successful small business owner. He was also a big part of my current competition dogs foundation bitework. I will be back in SLC at the end of the month doing a final tuneup with that repulsive redneck before heading to the USA National Championship in Reno with that dog.

Had to smile when I noticed you live in West Valley. Hey I lived in Kearns, so I feel your pain. Would of figured you would have at least lived in Holliday to have that much attitude! PS.... The Redneck lives in a much nicer area.

I would have hoped you would have done a little more research before purchasing your Doberman. Heck I can name five Dobie breeders in the states that produce good working dobes and I'm a German Shepherd guy. Agility and Schutzhund are two different worlds.. Schutzhund is a demanding sport and you stand a much better chance with proven Schutzhund lines. I have two Dobermans in my club and good friends that are coming down this weekend with there Dobe to finish getting ready for the Nationals. We are basically a German Shepherd club that is open to all breeds. The kidding and ribbing about our chosen breeds will go on all weekend.
It looks like you learned a lesson the hard way about how a good schutzhund club is like a close family and everyone has each others back. There is a wealth of talent in both clubs and its great they are training together.
Just as a side note the club dues pays for equipment and trials etc.. The members are there to help one another out. Lots of exhausting work doing helper work. Not to mention the wear and tear on your body.
To be successful in this sport you need to be a team player and have a little thicker skin. Apparently you have neither and missed out on a great opportunity to train with some excellent trainers.
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:48 PM   #89 (permalink)
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I got an email today from Cheryl (current president of Olympus Shutzhund) inviting me a seminar this weekend. Obviously I can't make it, as I'll be in California picking up my pup -- but it seems that the club's not as unified on this front as some would think... I guess it's true: Haters gonna hate -- even come to a forum and attempt to bully a newcomer to their club over a misunderstanding (whether on the helper's/member's part or mine is up to debate to some).

I've politely declined (as I have other commitments) but asked to speak to her later, at another event or such. We'll see what she has to say -- especially if other club members attempt to bring up this debacle to her or confront her about it. I honestly have to wonder if they will or not. After all, training sessions will have gone on since this whole thing started as it has run well over a week.

But I want to make something clear -- to everybody here. The impression I made in person was much more positive then what's being cast here online. Positive enough that she wants me to come back. After all, at the event I was humble, polite, enthusiastic, and respectful -- even if the same had not been given to me. It was only after the fact that I let my irritation out in what I viewed as a safe space. That'll learn me, huh?

It's just -- funny, I suppose, how things play out.
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:56 PM   #90 (permalink)
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MurderofCrows, I must say... I believe you have sealed your fate with the sport of schutzhund in the Salt Lake area. I certainly would have a hard time allowing anyone with an attitude like yours to become a member of the club in which I am the president and or training director. Since both clubs vote their members in, this will not be a problem. I am certain that you understand.

I am sorry for quite a few things I am reading here:

I am sorry you feel like you were mistreated by some club members and some non-club members. No one deserves to be treated poorly. But, if you feel you were mistreated you could have and should have brought it to my attention AT THE TIME instead of taking it to a public forum such as this.

I am sorry that you chose the breed of dog you did for your first schutzhund prospect. Experience tells me (and I have a lot) that you have chosen a challenge without even knowing it. I believe I told you in our first encounter that a doberman isn't the easiest breed to do schutzhund with, not that they can't do it, but they can be very difficult to train in schutzhund! Even the best of them. And we HAVE HAD many and still DO have dobermans in the club. Very good ones I might add!

I am sorry if you still want to do schutzhund with your puppy now as you have NO experience in the sport and will find it EXCEEDINGLY difficult to get anywhere without a club with members to help you. But truthfully... I heard you many times on that weekend (as well as in emails to me personally) state that you just wanted a personal protection dog - and clearly you know the difference between schutzhund and personal protection, right???

Lastly, I feel very sorry for you. You have no idea what you are talking about. Schutzhundfan was very forthright and completely correct with her answers and comments. She clarified everything to you but you seem to take everything much too personally and your first response comes from defense and anger. She is absolutely correct and I back her 100% in her last post that the Salt Lake area is not very big and the schutzhund dog community is very small.... and I second her motion that you should simply keep your mouth shut - at least in the public forum such as this when you are discussing something you have no clue about. I understand how you must have felt... but haven't you felt like that before? like say your first day at school?

I welcome you to contact me - on a personal level - either by email or phone and we can discuss this situation privately. It's obvious to me that you can't handle public criticism and this has gotten totally out of hand.

I do have to wonder now, if that polite invite was under false pretense, as I had stopped reading this thread before tonight (no reason to rehash). We'll see another weekend, though.

(And yes, for the love of all that's good, my husband and I both know the different between PP and SCH! Good heavens, people.)
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Old 10-23-2010, 02:16 AM   #91 (permalink)
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It's never easy going to a new club - especially with an alternate breed. But as many have said, Schutzhund is a very small world and imo, we all need to do all we can to encourage and support.
We've had the same thing happen to visitors at our club. New people sometimes just don't understand what it really takes, especially in terms of time & comittment -not to mention the dog.
I suggest to all clubs out there - instead of letting everyone in the club overwhelm a visitor and give 100 different opinions 100 different ways, we found it's good to appoint one person be a "greeter". We made our sargent at arms the greeter since they have fewer duties typically. We've also had members take turns being the greeter. This person takes the visitor around and introduces them to the members, sits with them during training and explains what is happening on the field, explains club rules (which are also given in writing), and answers any questions. No one comments or makes evaluation of the dog except the TD. Often, if the dog isn't cut out, they will know it during the 1st or 2nd eval and they just never come back or they ask what else they can get into. No one leaves with hard feelings if they choose to leave. If they stay, everyone helps everyone at training.
It's a tough sport and can be a tough crowd. Personally, I think we can all do the sport good by just offering the information and letting the novice feel it out for themselves.
Of course, at our club, the 2 GSD's and 2 Mali's are the "alternate" breeds to our 10 Doberman members
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:33 AM   #92 (permalink)
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It's never easy going to a new club - especially with an alternate breed. But as many have said, Schutzhund is a very small world and imo, we all need to do all we can to encourage and support.
We've had the same thing happen to visitors at our club. New people sometimes just don't understand what it really takes, especially in terms of time & comittment -not to mention the dog.
I suggest to all clubs out there - instead of letting everyone in the club overwhelm a visitor and give 100 different opinions 100 different ways, we found it's good to appoint one person be a "greeter". We made our sargent at arms the greeter since they have fewer duties typically. We've also had members take turns being the greeter. This person takes the visitor around and introduces them to the members, sits with them during training and explains what is happening on the field, explains club rules (which are also given in writing), and answers any questions. No one comments or makes evaluation of the dog except the TD. Often, if the dog isn't cut out, they will know it during the 1st or 2nd eval and they just never come back or they ask what else they can get into. No one leaves with hard feelings if they choose to leave. If they stay, everyone helps everyone at training.
It's a tough sport and can be a tough crowd. Personally, I think we can all do the sport good by just offering the information and letting the novice feel it out for themselves.
Of course, at our club, the 2 GSD's and 2 Mali's are the "alternate" breeds to our 10 Doberman members
Sounds like you have a good, personable, inviting club there. I suspect your club will grow more than many others. As the sport is not exactly booming, I can't understand why more clubs would try to employ more outreach programs as recruiting tools. Unless, of course, they are content with remaining small good ol' boys clubs.
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:55 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Old 11-07-2010, 12:03 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Murder of crows, I just wanted to let you know that I bred my bitch to Michelles QPJ last year, total show lines. I kept a male from that litter who is now 11mo old. I went into this breeding wanting to take my American show line dogs and do Schutzhund with them if they showed potential. I raised the puppies from birth with this intention and built upon their drives. I do have to say that my Foxfire lined dog is doing fantastic with it "so far". Our club leader/trainer who has judged the sport in Germany really likes my boy and says he has great potential. Only time will tell, but so far he shows great ability for it. My handling skills are another thing though lol. I have much to learn with this but have found this sport to be so much fun and love the people in it.
I find our club to be wonderful they are very supportive of eachother and the dogs that are represented. Of course it is primarily GSD's and all of them have the working backgrounds except mine. I personally know that our trainer has bragged about my boy to a quite a few other members of the club which thrills me because he is a GSD person to the core and is all about having to have the SCH titled dogs in the lineage. I just hope that we can keep up the good work and show that the showlines can do this sport with hard work and proper training. Only time will tell but I wish you luck on your Foxfire puppy.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:10 PM   #95 (permalink)
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I may be jumping in late on this and honestly just skimmed through all the other post but referring back to the OP, "show lines"? Was the good ole boy suggesting that Dobermans are show/conformation dogs and not working dogs? Or just that your particular dog was from a show pedigree?

Maybe I'm stupid but I thought Dobes were breed for working and literally the meaning of schutzhund(protection dog in german). I know the sport was started using gsd but a Doberman should be just as good in competition considering they were breed specifically for it and NOT the gsd which is a hearding dog. Not saying one is better than the other, but definitely on the same level of skill and potential.

I would tell those guys to get bent and just walk away. It would be a huge "in your face" if your dobie became very successful and they saw it for themselves. Insert foot in mouth for sure.



My dog is a euro dobie with bigger bone and structure than an american dobie (simply my opinion btw, not comparing quality) with a working line background but I still can't imagine one from a "show line" sucking at tracking, protection, etc.

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Old 11-08-2010, 08:49 PM   #96 (permalink)
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I may be jumping in late on this and honestly just skimmed through all the other post but referring back to the OP, "show lines"? Was the good ole boy suggesting that Dobermans are show/conformation dogs and not working dogs? Or just that your particular dog was from a show pedigree?

Maybe I'm stupid but I thought Dobes were breed for working and literally the meaning of schutzhund(protection dog in german). I know the sport was started using gsd but a Doberman should be just as good in competition considering they were breed specifically for it and NOT the gsd which is a hearding dog. Not saying one is better than the other, but definitely on the same level of skill and potential.

I would tell those guys to get bent and just walk away. It would be a huge "in your face" if your dobie became very successful and they saw it for themselves. Insert foot in mouth for sure.



My dog is a euro dobie with bigger bone and structure than an american dobie (simply my opinion btw, not comparing quality) with a working line background but I still can't imagine one from a "show line" sucking at tracking, protection, etc.
Well I can honestly say that I see a difference between the 2. I have all show lines and the boy that I'm training in Schutzhund right now is doing fine and showing lots of promise, Hopefully this will continue. I did raise him with this in mind though from the beginning so maybe this will help. His mother I brought out when she was 4 to see if she could do it or at least let me work with her and learn on her until I had a Schutzhund prospect. She passed her WAC with no problem and has great prey/play drive with a fairly high defense but did not really want to play the game at this age. Her obedience and tracking would be fine but again it is the protection portion where the main difference is. Had I started her from a puppy she probably would have been fine. Her mother would never make it in Schutzhund.

I'd say the obedience and tracking portion would not be a problem for any Doberman. It's when it comes down to the protection portion of it that is where the AM showlines have more problems. They just dont show the drive that the others do that are bred for this.

Personally I'm up to the challenge of trying to take my boy in a sport that is dominated by primarily GSD owners and mainly Euro lines. I'm learning alot about the temperaments and drives as I go and having fun. I think If I can accomplish what I'm trying to do then it will be a big accomplishment for me. There may be some along the way that may talk behind our back or laugh because I don't have the traditional Schutzhund dog but I really don't care. I'm along for the ride and for me it is all about spending time with the dog and training toghether. So until my boy or trainer tells me differently we are in it for the long run and loving every minute of it! Fun sport!
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:47 AM   #97 (permalink)
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So, folks: How do you let the haters hate and resist the urge to rub bacon on their bite suit's crotch?
I will give you points for "cute" in your post.

As for your comment of putting bacon in the crotch of my bitesuit. Even if you only do it in your dreams, I recommend that you quickly wake up and apologize.

I am an earnest helper that regularly works to help some of the "lesser" dogs attain a level of confidence that they would otherwise not have. I never charge handlers, because I do it for their dogs. Making jokes about your dog biting me in the jiblets is hardly funny.

After all, this is probably just a sport for you and your dog. But for me Shutzhund remains a test, and as a helper I will test your dog. I will also speak to you honestly about your dog. If your dog is not worthy of the training, I might sugar coat it a little bit -- BUT I WILL TELL YOU!!!!

On the streets, I am counting on a REAL DOG to get the job done.

I have yet to meet only 5-10 percent of the sport dogs that I KNOW are hard enough that I can't run them off the field wearing only a t-shirt and shorts. None of them are dobermans.

Odds are your dog is not yet one of those hard dogs just waiting to kick some a$$ out on the street. I understand and respect that is probably not what you want.

When your dog has a "street bite" against a guy who wounded 2 cops before jumping 2 six foot block walls.... then I will let you talk trash.

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Old 12-19-2012, 03:44 AM   #98 (permalink)
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This thread is two years old and MurderOfCrows has not visited DT in almost a year. Take your drama elsewhere...
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:07 PM   #99 (permalink)
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personally, I'd pursue that whole "bacon on the crotch" of their pants concept.
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:50 PM   #100 (permalink)
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I will give you points for "cute" in your post.

As for your comment of putting bacon in the crotch of my bitesuit. Even if you only do it in your dreams, I recommend that you quickly wake up and apologize.

I am an earnest helper that regularly works to help some of the "lesser" dogs attain a level of confidence that they would otherwise not have. I never charge handlers, because I do it for their dogs. Making jokes about your dog biting me in the jiblets is hardly funny.

After all, this is probably just a sport for you and your dog. But for me Shutzhund remains a test, and as a helper I will test your dog. I will also speak to you honestly about your dog. If your dog is not worthy of the training, I might sugar coat it a little bit -- BUT I WILL TELL YOU!!!!

On the streets, I am counting on a REAL DOG to get the job done.

I have yet to meet only 5-10 percent of the sport dogs that I KNOW are hard enough that I can't run them off the field wearing only a t-shirt and shorts. None of them are dobermans.

Odds are your dog is not yet one of those hard dogs just waiting to kick some a$$ out on the street. I understand and respect that is probably not what you want.

When your dog has a "street bite" against a guy who wounded 2 cops before jumping 2 six foot block walls.... then I will let you talk trash.

Lol, coming from a girl who has a gret working bitch, this post made me laugh.
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