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Old 02-08-2013, 01:55 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Ahhhh I feel like they're on meeee!!

Alright, I've come to. I think that snakes are very beautiful, so long as they are far, far, far away from me. I think the reason I am so afraid of them is because they're so unpredictable. How do you have so much confidence handling snakes that they aren't going to freak out and bite you or something? I would love to learn more, then maybe I won't be as scared. Unless snakes have rattlers, or are a cobra, or something to that effect, I feel like there are just no warning signs regarding whether or no they're going to strike.

I don't mean any disrespect, but they give me the heebie jeebies!
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:10 AM   #27 (permalink)
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They are gorgeous!

I'm not really a snake person, but they are cute! I didn't used to be scared of them, but I saw someone get bit by their pet and now I'm a bit wary of them. I've held the really big ones, but I don't think now

We don't have many wild snakes here; I think adders and grass snakes. A friends dog used to catch them all the time, not something we encouraged. The only time I have seen a live one is when a rottie I used to look after pulled one out of a log like a long piece of spaghetti luckily he didn't hurt it and it just slithered off.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:38 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Okay, so, off topic to your new slithery bundles o' joy, but since it was brought up--I'm wondering if you would know if what I *think* I've seen on my hikes and around the barns seems accurate or not.


(Do snake folks have a "life list" like birdwatcher people do?)
Had to look up what a life list was, hah. There's a little bit of a difference between "snake people" and herpetologists- I am one of the "snake folk" but it's not my job to keep track of local populations or anything which would be a herpetologist BUT many herp owners get fascinated by their animals and go "field herping" trying to find as many wild reptiles, amphibians, and inverts as possible. Whether or not they keep a list or check anything off is up to them. I purposely remember what I saw because I get some of my friends calling me frantically to quickly ID the snake they spotted in their yard.

Anywhoo, I know I've seen a ton o' Copperheads (and yes that is what bit Ez, and he was treated with steroids and abs and fluids, not anti-venin), both adults and babies.

They are sooo muscular! Hard to mistake, once you've seen *and smelled* one. Cucumbers, anyone?

It's startling how beefy vipers are! Look up the gaboon viper- you're safe from them where you are but man those things are massive. They're pretty lazy and docile and some will tolerate being handled by a herpetologist but it's not recommended because they pack a wallop in their bite. Copperheads are luckily not considered *very* dangerous by the snake community, apparently it's not too hard to get treatment for the bite, but I don't know 100% because I refuse to keep anything hotter than a hognose or garter.

No idea if these terms are accurate or not, but Black King Snake. Rat Snake.
You have both, plus black racers. All three are harmless in terms of venom but wild colubrids are notorious for being angry little dudes and often are more aggressive than the vipers (which ironically just want to be left alone and are very shy). A bite would hurt but the danger is just infection.

Garter Snakes, of course. Ringneck Snake (was bitten by that lil guy, but called a herp dude who I used to work with and he assured me snakeypoo was more hurt than my toes, and so I let the confused critter go again.) He was pretty, bright colors, which is what worried me a bit, at first, 'til I found out he was packin' no poison.
You've got both plus a few other harmless littler ones. A lot of the tiny colubrids are brightly colored to do exactly that- pretend that they're venomous so other critters leave them alone. Ringnecks don't get very big so they are stuck at the bottom of the food chain. I'm impressed you got one to bite you, Ringnecks and Redbellies are known for their extremely docile temperaments. You must have caught him on a bad day.

Water Moccasin. I know that one for (pretty) sure--he was swimmin' in the same water hole as some of us, at the time.
Cottonmouths are not *supposed* to be up that high in the states but my grandfather (who hunts and thus must know species) has seen a few too. Iunno what that's about.

What was either a very well-fed and atypical-looking Copperhead, or maybe a Hognose, once, he/she was very dusty/dirty, probably getting ready for new duds even, and his head was sort of buried in the grass (I was mowing), so I couldn't check his eyes, but his head was definitely different than your run-of-the-mill snake.

Like this? (holy carp it's hard to find a picture of a wild one not hooding) That's an eastern hognose, a close relative to my pair but on this side of the states instead of out west. They have some patterns that imitate true hots to scare off predators too.


I think that's about it, and considering how outdoorsy I live, I'm assuming many snakes are just very good at hiding/getting away, or I'd have seen more.

Does that sound like good guesses on what we have around here? I'm one state over from you, in WV.
All of those are not out of the ordinary. You've got timber rattlers too (as do we) and then you should be done for your venomous species. Lots of little colubrids which are harmless, just flighty and angry. I don't mind the offtopicness! I love to "talk snakes" with folks.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:56 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kmbeach22 View Post
Ahhhh I feel like they're on meeee!!

Alright, I've come to. I think that snakes are very beautiful, so long as they are far, far, far away from me. I think the reason I am so afraid of them is because they're so unpredictable. How do you have so much confidence handling snakes that they aren't going to freak out and bite you or something? I would love to learn more, then maybe I won't be as scared. Unless snakes have rattlers, or are a cobra, or something to that effect, I feel like there are just no warning signs regarding whether or no they're going to strike.

I don't mean any disrespect, but they give me the heebie jeebies!
Well, how do you have confidence handling dogs knowing they're not going to freak out and bite you?

I used to think the same, that reptiles were unpredictable and while preparing for Quetzal my first snake I was terrified he was going to bite me. No lie! I've been bitten by all manner of critters before (dogs, cats, feral cats, various pet rodents...) and they all HURT and I don't like pain. But you know, owning any animal, it's not "if" you get bit, it's "when". Puppies nip, kittens wrestle, birds peck, snakes bite too. Eventually Q did bite me, twice, and both times I had badly startled him and that was when he was a little more jumpy due to being a babe. The scratch left behind acted like a cat scratch, just a little itchy (not uncommon due to bacteria in their mouth), and hurt significantly less. The only thing was that it bled more because of the anti-coagulant stuff in their spit.

They actually do have a lot of warning signs. There are the obvious ones, rattling tail, flattening of the hood, false strikes- and even non-vipers do those. There's the ones that breeders tell their customers; neck going into a tight S shape ("I'm angry and about to bite"), whipping their head around ("I don't like it, I'll bite you if you continue"), tracking your hands/body ("I see you and you've made me angry, I'm watching you"), hissing ("GO AWAY!"). BUT as you get more comfortable reading your snake you begin to pick up on subtler signs as well. I knew, both times, that something was off about the way Q approached me, that he was not usually so sharp with his movements and to be careful with my hands. I now know that's him saying "you're scary, leave me alone or I'll bite you".

Now I had a little rescue corn when I first joined this forum named Jormungandr. Jor had been starved and improperly tamed, he may have been incubating a URI and we discovered a kink in his spine (90º bend) a few days before he died. Whether the pain/stress contributed to his temperament or not I'll never know but he was VERY angry which is atypical for corns. He displayed a lot of "go away" signs before actually moving to bite. He'd rear up so that nearly half his body was off the ground- cobra imitation for defense. He slapped his tail rapidly against surfaces- rattler imitation for defense. Lots of false strikes if you ignored those, lots of hissing, and then finally if you still didn't leave him alone he would bite. Some corns will musk (VERY STINKY) too before moving to bite.

My hoggies will hood (flatten their neck to pretend to be a cobra), rattle (like Jor, they have no rattle so they use other stuff), musk, and play dead before deciding to give up and chomp.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:08 AM   #30 (permalink)
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They are gorgeous!

I'm not really a snake person, but they are cute! I didn't used to be scared of them, but I saw someone get bit by their pet and now I'm a bit wary of them. I've held the really big ones, but I don't think now

We don't have many wild snakes here; I think adders and grass snakes. A friends dog used to catch them all the time, not something we encouraged. The only time I have seen a live one is when a rottie I used to look after pulled one out of a log like a long piece of spaghetti luckily he didn't hurt it and it just slithered off.
Aww, don't let that scare you too much. Sometimes we're dumb and don't read our snakes very well and they teach us to mind their manners Plus some are more defensive than others depending on both species and personality. A want of mine, Emerald Tree Boas, like to greet people with their teeth so that will be a fun snake to try and tame But my ball python is pretty laidback and takes everything in stride, I've even used him in ambassador programs where he could greet special needs kids and stressed out college students and I've taken him to art festivals downtown in the summer. It all depends!
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:30 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I don't consider myself a "snake person" either, per se, because the thought of owning one has never crossed my mind, but maybe I am deep down inside.

I love them. Love the sight of them. Get a thrill when I come across them because they are elusive and it's special to spot them. Plus I think they are vitally important to the ecosystem. It is maddening that they are so arbitrarily beheaded all the time. I'm a live and let live kind of girl.

And they are soooooo pretty.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:08 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Uh I dunno how to make videos work so have a link Unboxing Hognoses - YouTube Unboxing!


Don't mind the writing, he reuses tubs after sanitizing.

Ouroboros- red male:




Leviathan





She is currently grumpy and squirmy. After some hissing and hooding I just put her in her tub to destress. He's much more laidback and curious so I'm doing a short handling session before putting him away.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:14 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Wow - cool!
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:31 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Well, how do you have confidence handling dogs knowing they're not going to freak out and bite you?

I used to think the same, that reptiles were unpredictable and while preparing for Quetzal my first snake I was terrified he was going to bite me. No lie! I've been bitten by all manner of critters before (dogs, cats, feral cats, various pet rodents...) and they all HURT and I don't like pain. But you know, owning any animal, it's not "if" you get bit, it's "when". Puppies nip, kittens wrestle, birds peck, snakes bite too. Eventually Q did bite me, twice, and both times I had badly startled him and that was when he was a little more jumpy due to being a babe. The scratch left behind acted like a cat scratch, just a little itchy (not uncommon due to bacteria in their mouth), and hurt significantly less. The only thing was that it bled more because of the anti-coagulant stuff in their spit.

They actually do have a lot of warning signs. There are the obvious ones, rattling tail, flattening of the hood, false strikes- and even non-vipers do those. There's the ones that breeders tell their customers; neck going into a tight S shape ("I'm angry and about to bite"), whipping their head around ("I don't like it, I'll bite you if you continue"), tracking your hands/body ("I see you and you've made me angry, I'm watching you"), hissing ("GO AWAY!"). BUT as you get more comfortable reading your snake you begin to pick up on subtler signs as well. I knew, both times, that something was off about the way Q approached me, that he was not usually so sharp with his movements and to be careful with my hands. I now know that's him saying "you're scary, leave me alone or I'll bite you".

Now I had a little rescue corn when I first joined this forum named Jormungandr. Jor had been starved and improperly tamed, he may have been incubating a URI and we discovered a kink in his spine (90º bend) a few days before he died. Whether the pain/stress contributed to his temperament or not I'll never know but he was VERY angry which is atypical for corns. He displayed a lot of "go away" signs before actually moving to bite. He'd rear up so that nearly half his body was off the ground- cobra imitation for defense. He slapped his tail rapidly against surfaces- rattler imitation for defense. Lots of false strikes if you ignored those, lots of hissing, and then finally if you still didn't leave him alone he would bite. Some corns will musk (VERY STINKY) too before moving to bite.

My hoggies will hood (flatten their neck to pretend to be a cobra), rattle (like Jor, they have no rattle so they use other stuff), musk, and play dead before deciding to give up and chomp.
That makes sense. I suppose I never thought about it the way we know if other animals are going to bite. Maybe I'm scared of them because I don't know enough about them and their behaviors to feel comfortable around them. They're beautiful, but I just like to have a safe distance. There are a few I've handled back in the day. I remember one of my elementary teachers have a green garter snake. It had the calmest personality, but it was also playful. Whoever asked first, or who's "day" it was lol got to hold it that day. It was rarely ever in the cage. I remember doing my writing assignments with it wrapped around my writing arm and just watching the pencil go up and down and up and down lol. I did really like that snake, and I wasn't afraid of it at all, then again I was young. I also remember reading about Fluffy the snake (that huge boa that unfortunately passed away from a tumor I believe) and the connection him and his handler shared. It was a pretty cool story.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:17 PM   #35 (permalink)
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All of those are not out of the ordinary. You've got timber rattlers too (as do we) and then you should be done for your venomous species. Lots of little colubrids which are harmless, just flighty and angry. I don't mind the offtopicness! I love to "talk snakes" with folks.
Yes, that is what this snake looked like, only duller, but that's the head shape. The markings are similar enough I could see where somebody could mistake it for a Copperhead.

Funny to hear snake folk don't consider Copperheads all that dangerous--they get a lot of hype at hospitals and so forth, around here, esp. the babies, since they seem to not control how much venom they inject.

Also, don't ever want to find out for myself if it's true or not, but it's supposed to be one of the more painful bites you can receive, too.

I've never run across a Timber Rattler, although I knew we are supposed to have them.

I once tried to remove what I thought was a dead Rat snake from a barn where I worked and kept my own horse. It had just been lying in one of the stalls for forever, hours, and I needed to get in there and clean so I sucked it up and--was wearing barn gloves anyway, picked it up by the end of the tail to take the body and dispose of it.

Erm. Was not dead. Was, at that point, VERY pissed.

She was pretty big, at least six-ish to seven-ish feet long, longer than I am tall, anyway. It turned out it was a girl--we found her laying eggs a couple days later, and when the barn owner got back from vaca, we asked her about it and she casually said, "Oh yeah, that's Gertie, she comes here every year to lay her eggs. Don't mess with her, she's a real bitch."

Anyhow, thanks for answering my snakey questions.

Your critters are cute. I don't blame the girl for being all stressed and grumpy--girls just expect to get the princess treatment, you know, and I doubt the shipping was luxury class.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:42 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Yes, that is what this snake looked like, only duller, but that's the head shape. The markings are similar enough I could see where somebody could mistake it for a Copperhead.

Yes, sadly that's where their defense backfires. They look a lot like venomous species to scare away predators but that also encourages the big dumb humans to bother them when really they just want to be left alone.

Funny to hear snake folk don't consider Copperheads all that dangerous--they get a lot of hype at hospitals and so forth, around here, esp. the babies, since they seem to not control how much venom they inject.

Also, don't ever want to find out for myself if it's true or not, but it's supposed to be one of the more painful bites you can receive, too.

I have heard the same from many of the hot owners on my BP forum. Apparently though the bite is rarely deadly, just painful and requires medical care, except in the very young/old/pregnant/weak. Granted, there are many snakes that have more potent venom than Copperheads that are popular in the hot industry (mambas, rattlers, cobras) so I can understand the disconnect.

I've never run across a Timber Rattler, although I knew we are supposed to have them.

I once tried to remove what I thought was a dead Rat snake from a barn where I worked and kept my own horse. It had just been lying in one of the stalls for forever, hours, and I needed to get in there and clean so I sucked it up and--was wearing barn gloves anyway, picked it up by the end of the tail to take the body and dispose of it.

Erm. Was not dead. Was, at that point, VERY pissed.

She was pretty big, at least six-ish to seven-ish feet long, longer than I am tall, anyway. It turned out it was a girl--we found her laying eggs a couple days later, and when the barn owner got back from vaca, we asked her about it and she casually said, "Oh yeah, that's Gertie, she comes here every year to lay her eggs. Don't mess with her, she's a real bitch."

Wild rat snakes can be a real piece of work. Wild rats and kings are known for their attitude and many people think they're venomous because of it. Nah, just angry all the time. I had a black rat strike at my boot when I passed it while walking. Was glad it was just a black rat and not a rattler or copperhead! I found a stick and poked it until it was clear of the path so that the people I was camping with didn't get it in their heads to torment the creature.

Anyhow, thanks for answering my snakey questions.

Your critters are cute. I don't blame the girl for being all stressed and grumpy--girls just expect to get the princess treatment, you know, and I doubt the shipping was luxury class.
Definitely not The FedEx guy was holding the box upside down... you'd think if the box has HARMLESS LIVE REPTILES written all over it that he would have held the box the correct side up but apparently not. Better than the shipping fiasco I had getting Jor here from where he was rescued in California, especially with the weather.

I went to class, came back to check on them. Both under the water bowls, silly beasts, but she's much calmer. She did do a false strike at my friend's hands though I believe that was a feeding response as my friend was gesturing rather wildly. Ouro just doesn't care, he likes to sit and watch. He's just shy of 7 months, she's just over 5, so he's had a little longer to understand the Big Scary Warm Giant.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:55 PM   #37 (permalink)
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That makes sense. I suppose I never thought about it the way we know if other animals are going to bite. Maybe I'm scared of them because I don't know enough about them and their behaviors to feel comfortable around them. They're beautiful, but I just like to have a safe distance. There are a few I've handled back in the day. I remember one of my elementary teachers have a green garter snake. It had the calmest personality, but it was also playful. Whoever asked first, or who's "day" it was lol got to hold it that day. It was rarely ever in the cage. I remember doing my writing assignments with it wrapped around my writing arm and just watching the pencil go up and down and up and down lol. I did really like that snake, and I wasn't afraid of it at all, then again I was young. I also remember reading about Fluffy the snake (that huge boa that unfortunately passed away from a tumor I believe) and the connection him and his handler shared. It was a pretty cool story.
Lack of knowledge; that is what fuels a lot of fear of herps. I used to say that I could understand why people are afraid of snakes. Now that I've been "into" snakes for a year, I can't understand it anymore. Owning Q has taught me a lot and hopefully these hoggies will teach me more.

I'm envious! All of my teachers except one were terrified of herps in general and the one teacher that liked herps... had a snake phobia. My first experience, not counting the run in with the copperhead, was my neighbor's son's adult female albino burm. He was an adult himself and ah, tended to run into trouble with the law, so his parents being animal lovers offered to take his pets for keeps and built a huge custom enclosure for her in their basement. I was friends with their granddaughter who was my age (son's daughter) who also lived with them for keeps and both of us were always very excited to play with her because we were not allowed in the basement by ourselves for safety reasons. We weren't allowed to hold her alone either but she'd stick her head out for us and we'd give her hugs and scratches between the eyes. Then my parents had to deal with my whining that I wanted a snake just like her They'd hoped I'd grow out of it and told me when I moved out I could have as many snakes as I wanted. Looks like that plan backfired

Fluffy was a reticulated python, the longest species of snakes in the world (largest by mass is the green anaconda). Her passing was very sad
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:15 PM   #38 (permalink)
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They are so cute! My mom dislikes snakes but i find them fascinating, my faves are chondros but little hoggies are adorable. I always said if i get a house i have a chondro and a hognose along with a jacksons and panther chameleon. I think many reptiles are misunderstood but also impulse buys piss me off. Like dogs an cats i see many snakes, turtles and lizards bought and then the owner is like "oh they eat bugs or they eat mice, i cant do that its disgusting" and i see tons of impulse buys at the reptile expos which drives me nuts (sorry random vent) either way theres not many wild reptiles around here unless you go to the Zoo lol


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Old 02-08-2013, 08:30 PM   #39 (permalink)
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So cool! I really liked to video and appreciate your knowledge of such a misunderstood species.

Will you post pics of their tubs? Im interested in the habitat you created for them. Are you planning on breeding them, or did you just get opposite sexes for coexistence purposes?
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:07 PM   #40 (permalink)
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They are so cute! My mom dislikes snakes but i find them fascinating, my faves are chondros but little hoggies are adorable. I always said if i get a house i have a chondro and a hognose along with a jacksons and panther chameleon. I think many reptiles are misunderstood but also impulse buys piss me off. Like dogs an cats i see many snakes, turtles and lizards bought and then the owner is like "oh they eat bugs or they eat mice, i cant do that its disgusting" and i see tons of impulse buys at the reptile expos which drives me nuts (sorry random vent) either way theres not many wild reptiles around here unless you go to the Zoo lol
I don't suggest a GTP or relative as a first snake just because they're a little more specialized, but a hognose would make a good starter It's better to start with an easy species as it helps you determine if you've got the commitment to have a harder one. Chams are really cool though, also not for beginners though that's because they're more look but don't touch. They're too sensitive for me so I will not own one but they're nice to look at.

Impulse buys frustrate me too, trust me. I deal with them both on tumblr and on another forum where people basically post "I bought this at this pet store 5 minutes ago because it looked sick, how do I make it unsick and what does it eat?" and I pretty much hang my head because I know more often than not the poor creature is going to die. I can understand the impulse but with my knowledge NOW of how much it actually takes to own an exotic I try to talk everyone I meet out of it. I'm the go-to for snake advise in my circle of college buddies (except the one who disagrees with me on feeding- she is the go-to for colubrids so we balance out) and the ones that don't have herps are always really surprised at what goes into their care.

Quote:
So cool! I really liked to video and appreciate your knowledge of such a misunderstood species.

Will you post pics of their tubs? Im interested in the habitat you created for them. Are you planning on breeding them, or did you just get opposite sexes for coexistence purposes?
Haha, thanks I'm not as knowledgeable as I seem- if you go on an exotics forum you will see people with decades and decades of knowledge make my posts seem like a drop in a lake. They are, truly, the best place to learn


Levi is the little blobhead sticking out of the aspen on the far side. They rejected the hides on the cool side but liked the box that I carried them downstairs to show one of my roommates in so I did a switcharoo. 4in of mouse aspen (cheaper than reptile stuff, made of same materials, meh) with paper towels at the bottom to keep them directly off the hot pad- extra hides since they're currently cohabbed and I don't want them to compete for "best spot". They burrow so it was very important that I give them enough digging material.

They are currently too young for breeding, however in about 7 month's time I'll be able to determine what I want to do regarding that. I did purposely get a pair to leave that option open as there are really no hognose breeders around here BUT there is a market due to people catching sights of eastern hognoses and not being allowed to have one (eastern hognoses are native to the state and illegal to own, western hognoses are native to different states and are legal to own here- on the other side of the States it'd be visa versa) BUT that requires me to learn quite a bit about ethics and politics and morphs as well as incubation and genetics.

I do not like to cohab snakes as nearly all species are at risk for cannibalizing. I had Levi in a slightly larger tub originally as she will grow about a foot bigger than Ouro, but she was way too stressed in such a large space (not uncommon for hatchlings- small snakes are dead bottom of the food chain as even mice and bugs will attack eat them- she panicked and stress-roamed for about an hour and a half which is really bad) and RR tends to cohab their younger hatchlings so they are used to cagemates- so I put her in Ouro's tub and she is much more relaxed. I will be getting a matching one this Thursday and putting her back by herself. At least at the end of this I will have a nice tub ready for her to move into when she outgrows the smaller one. If she really MUST be cohabbed then I guess I'll just have an extra tub... like I said I don't like it but I have heard of some snakes requiring a "friend" so it is a last resort for me.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:33 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazi View Post
I don't suggest a GTP or relative as a first snake just because they're a little more specialized, but a hognose would make a good starter It's better to start with an easy species as it helps you determine if you've got the commitment to have a harder one. Chams are really cool though, also not for beginners though that's because they're more look but don't touch. They're too sensitive for me so I will not own one but they're nice to look at.

Impulse buys frustrate me too, trust me. I deal with them both on tumblr and on another forum where people basically post "I bought this at this pet store 5 minutes ago because it looked sick, how do I make it unsick and what does it eat?" and I pretty much hang my head because I know more often than not the poor creature is going to die. I can understand the impulse but with my knowledge NOW of how much it actually takes to own an exotic I try to talk everyone I meet out of it. I'm the go-to for snake advise in my circle of college buddies (except the one who disagrees with me on feeding- she is the go-to for colubrids so we balance out) and the ones that don't have herps are always really surprised at what goes into their care.



Haha, thanks I'm not as knowledgeable as I seem- if you go on an exotics forum you will see people with decades and decades of knowledge make my posts seem like a drop in a lake. They are, truly, the best place to learn


Levi is the little blobhead sticking out of the aspen on the far side. They rejected the hides on the cool side but liked the box that I carried them downstairs to show one of my roommates in so I did a switcharoo. 4in of mouse aspen (cheaper than reptile stuff, made of same materials, meh) with paper towels at the bottom to keep them directly off the hot pad- extra hides since they're currently cohabbed and I don't want them to compete for "best spot". They burrow so it was very important that I give them enough digging material.

They are currently too young for breeding, however in about 7 month's time I'll be able to determine what I want to do regarding that. I did purposely get a pair to leave that option open as there are really no hognose breeders around here BUT there is a market due to people catching sights of eastern hognoses and not being allowed to have one (eastern hognoses are native to the state and illegal to own, western hognoses are native to different states and are legal to own here- on the other side of the States it'd be visa versa) BUT that requires me to learn quite a bit about ethics and politics and morphs as well as incubation and genetics.

I do not like to cohab snakes as nearly all species are at risk for cannibalizing. I had Levi in a slightly larger tub originally as she will grow about a foot bigger than Ouro, but she was way too stressed in such a large space (not uncommon for hatchlings- small snakes are dead bottom of the food chain as even mice and bugs will attack eat them- she panicked and stress-roamed for about an hour and a half which is really bad) and RR tends to cohab their younger hatchlings so they are used to cagemates- so I put her in Ouro's tub and she is much more relaxed. I will be getting a matching one this Thursday and putting her back by herself. At least at the end of this I will have a nice tub ready for her to move into when she outgrows the smaller one. If she really MUST be cohabbed then I guess I'll just have an extra tub... like I said I don't like it but I have heard of some snakes requiring a "friend" so it is a last resort for me.
Yes thats what ive been told, i understand they are more look no touchie and can be quiet nippy but i dont mind observing ofcourse id love to handle all pets but i understand certain species just dont want to be touched. I would def go with hoggies first and then work my way to the GTP then chameleons i also wanted an axolotl, but with a whopping 13 pets not unfortunately the herps are going to have to wait a few :/
Best of luck with these two they are too cute


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Old 02-09-2013, 12:07 PM   #42 (permalink)
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GTPs can be tamed but due to their sensitive skeletal structure you should wait until they're roughly a year old or older before handling. Sadly this is right where the grumpy juvi stage begins for many boids so you will have a fun time trying to retain your fingers! They're supposed to be easier to tame than their boa lookalike (ETBs) which is good news for you and bad news for me as I want one eventually

Haha, yeah I think 13 pets is too much for me right now. When I have a real job (ie not a cashier) and a house I will have more time for more herps as I don't think I'll ever have time to have my entire list at once. Luckily herps do tend to live for a few decades so I will enjoy their company while it lasts


This is a good comparison shot of their sizes and colors. According to Richard, Leviathan (dull/small/female) is about to go into shed again so she should brighten up a little once she sheds. As you can see Ouroboros is phased by nothing while Leviathan is curious and squirmy.


I thought he felt a little left out so here is Quetzal. He is several times their size (~40in while Ouro is maybe 12) and currently in shed so his colors are very dull. The new snakes are in quarantine for 90 days so no size comparison shots for now. Not willing to risk anyone cross-contaminating.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:23 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Yes i heard ETBs could be a bit more angry. For GTPs as much as id want to get a juvenile maybe ill stick with a yearling but then again im a glutton for punishment and would love to see the color transformation of the GTPs. Seeing these guys full grown makes me want one soo bad but i gotta prioritize being a full-time student with an undying love for all types of pets.


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Old 02-10-2013, 10:30 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Oh man I know, the dilemna of deciding between a littler baby or just a juvi or even an adult. I'm still not sure what I'll do about the ETB but that is years and years into the future before I decide to drop $1k on a reptile purchase when it's likely going to be grumpy and not like me in the first place.

I can understand that. After these hogs unless a critter falls in my lap I'm done until I have a house with a dedicated room. Richard also had a brazilian rainbow boa and that's on my list BUT they require a lot more than I can afford to give them in both time and money.

My roommate is going to be bringing home a Durmeril's boa and a banded king instead of that corn. I'll get pictures of them once they are here and set up. Sadly she bought them a bit on impulse so I will likely be the person to set them up and teach her how to care for them. Sigh.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:52 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Caveat:

Those two " a bit on impulse" snakes may fast become a huge strain on your relationship, and even the end of the friendship altogether, ultimately.

Ask me how I know.

Set your boundaries early, clearly, in a friendly humorous manner if you can, but do NOT become her SnakeNanny.

You will wind up resenting it, and going back after her and fixing things she's neglected--for the sake of the animals--and you will resent that more and more, so...stick to your boundaries and ground rules.

Oh, and I forgot to answer you, before, about being bitten by the Ringneck. It was late one summer evening, and I was giving my begonias on my front porch a last drink of water--and I stepped on poor little snakey dude, not fully, so he didn't get squished, but just enough with my big toe that he whirled around and bit said big toe.

Can't really say I blamed him.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:23 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Indeed i sit there and want a blue line GTP so bad but, i think they go 5k and up and err dont got that kinda cash for that right now. Aside from my dogs cats and rabbits i got three fishtanks and i believe maintaining the tanks drives me nuts more than anything, so adding any herps right now would be suicide


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Old 02-11-2013, 12:21 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
Caveat:

Those two " a bit on impulse" snakes may fast become a huge strain on your relationship, and even the end of the friendship altogether, ultimately.

Ask me how I know.

Set your boundaries early, clearly, in a friendly humorous manner if you can, but do NOT become her SnakeNanny.

You will wind up resenting it, and going back after her and fixing things she's neglected--for the sake of the animals--and you will resent that more and more, so...stick to your boundaries and ground rules.

Oh, and I forgot to answer you, before, about being bitten by the Ringneck. It was late one summer evening, and I was giving my begonias on my front porch a last drink of water--and I stepped on poor little snakey dude, not fully, so he didn't get squished, but just enough with my big toe that he whirled around and bit said big toe.

Can't really say I blamed him.
Yes, I grew to resent her birds not because they were impulse (they weren't) but because I ended up being their primary caretaker even though they are not my animals. We sat down and had a talk about that this semester and she has accepted that I will not be paying attention to these birds anymore as they are HER job, not mine. I will be making the same thing clear for the snakes- I will not step in to help (unless I see them dying, but I'm not telling her that) outside of gathering a few caresheets so she can figure out what to do. I let her rely on me for the birds and if I didn't like birds before I may as well hate them now.

The only ones of "her" animals that I care for anymore are the rats, and only because I feed those to my snakes so it's only fair that I shoulder some of the responsibility. She, by the way, refuses to help me at all with the dog which was the final push to me putting my foot down about helping with her critters.

My other roommate (I have 2) and I have ripped into her for buying on impulse as we are all exotics people here and we all know how sensitive these guys can be. She's also really bad at researching things preferring to believe word of mouth from pet stores so I will be printing out the good caresheets I find and passive-aggressively taping them to the tanks. What she does from there is what she does on her own as neither of us are willing to become nanny to snakes that we did not agree on (told her she could put a corn in Q's old tank, not a desert boa in that one and then a king in a spare tank kept for fosters).

One thing that I WILL keep on top of her about is quarantine because I am NOT willing to risk an IBD infection due to her bringing an unexpected boid home. She will not be allowed in my room after being downstairs (where the big tank is) without a shower for 90 days- boas and pythons are both susceptible to a scary virus that all we know about it is that it's not airborn and it pops up whereever there's reptile mites. Quetzal has been mite-free since hatching and I plan to keep him that way as ball pythons do not last more than a week or two with this virus and there is no cure as it directly attacks the brain, heart, and lungs. Boas can sometimes live with it for years before showing symptoms, but 90 days is the typical quarantine time. That is why Quetzal does not get to be around the hognoses yet even though hogs cannot get the disease they can still carry the mites. That also means she will have to completely sanitize Q's old tank just in case he might transfer something to the new boa.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:00 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Impulse snakes are here




Their setups are acceptable but I don't like them because they're not top quality but eh what do I know.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:37 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazi View Post
Impulse snakes are here ......

Their setups are acceptable but I don't like them because they're not top quality but eh what do I know.
I can understand what "not top quality" might mean in terms of care, proper raising, health, etc......but is there a "not top quality" based on...um....breeding? What makes a snake a quality snake?
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:06 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Yup! Just like dogs and cats there are breeders producing real quality and breeders that are... not. Unlike dogs and cats it's not NEARLY as big of a divide and not related to breeding practices per say (though there are big name breeders who do a disservice to acknowledging genetic health or lack thereof) but more the specific lines themselves. A certain line of cinnamon ball pythons, for instance, might have a common facial deformity that is associated with that particular color more than a different line of cinnamon.

However in many keeper's eyes it's color that's the main concern- more contrast and more white is always more valuable. If it's got nice bright colors and a solid sheen it's worth more than a snake that's "browned out" meaning the colors are dull and desaturated... think of what yellow does when you try to darken it with black... gross and muddy right? Same deal with snakes, brighter/contrasty = good, duller/undersaturated = meh.

I'm more fussing about her setups as I don't know anything about dumerils or kings to know if they're decent quality animals. Little things that aren't necessarily correct but I suppose will do the job in a pinch and at least won't kill them so I'm not stepping in. She did thank me for the caresheets I gave her at least and she is TRYING to do right by them now.
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