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Old 12-24-2012, 12:24 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Aaaaarrrrrggggh- a family dog related rant

I was just reminded that a cousin of mine has a Dogo. Which is pretty cool, I like Dogos and they're one of the few mastiffy-types that I don't wrinkle my nose at (many are too heavy or drooly, sorry Mason!) and they're one of those breeds that I know a limited amount about but enough that I know they're not a fit for my home but that doesn't mean I can't yearn from afar!

Except my cousin with a Dogo didn't exactly uh... how to put it... think her idea through?

Well first, she bought this dog for a few hundred bucks (red flag #1) for a home defender. But she's afraid of dogs and has a very weird sense of how to train one (red flag #2) and this is her first dog ever (red flag #3). She chose the Dogo because "they look like big pit bulls" (red flag#4) and because everyone knows pit bulls are uncontrollable manbiters (red flag #5), they won't think twice about coming in when they see her Dogo.

Did I forget to mention that her idea of training this poor dog to be a guard dog is that she has to put it on a very heavy chain in the back yard with minimal human contact and just barely scrape by PA's minimum requirements for housing a dog outdoors? Meaning I can't even call AC on her because PA is dumb and has ridiculously easy laws to follow when keeping dogs outside.

Did I also forget to mention that she has a young child, less than 2 years old, who is also afraid of dogs, who is put outside with this dog on a chain by herself to play? She assumes that since there's a fence nothing bad can happen to my 2nd cousin.

Now this dog is about 2 herself and is "uncontrollable" and "too hard to manage" and "very aggressive", so she is no longer allowed in the actual house outside of sitting in a back room away from everyone so she "doesn't scare the baby". And my cousin was recently impressed by Mocha's good behavior with her kid (basically, Mocha had a new toy which = very high value to her, baby snatched toy out of Mocha's mouth, Mocha did not growl or bite), so now she thinks she wants a chow/lab because those are all good with children and none of them bite so they will make a perfect companion for her little girl. Any explination on how much training it took for Mocha to be confident enough to even be around so many people goes in one ear and out the other. Mocha might be essentially bombproof now but she wasn't always.

I should also mention that this cousin is ALSO unwilling to stop blaming my childhood GSDs for an "attack" on her sister that didn't happen. Long story short, my parents know that side of the family is afraid of dogs, so we locked the GSDs away from where they could easily get to. This includes children. This cousin's little sister wandered away on her watch and managed to shut her hand in a door, which led her to start screaming. For some reason said little sister kept saying "doggy did it" so we went upstairs (note, we were in the kitchen at the time, which has the only staircase upstairs, and she didn't go through the kitchen) and yup, dogs still locked up where they were supposed to be. That entire side of the family still says our GSDs were vicious and attacked her to this day even though I'm pretty sure if 3 GSDs attacked a 5yo there would be a lot more damage than a horizontal bruise on her hand. In fact, after the incident with the baby snatching Mocha's toy, they brought it up again how that would never have happened and the baby would be dead if Mocha was a GSD. Oh, also, Mocha's not aggressive because she looks like a pit bull Yup. I told you they have some weird ideas regarding dogs.

So. Just. ARGH. I'm counting the days until that Dogo bites the baby. She's essentially concocted the exact formula you need for a dog bite and she's not willing to hear that she might end up with a seriously injured child (because guard dogs don't hurt "their" kids or owners, just other people). AND she wants to add another that imo requires a very experienced hand because she's convinced that the ONE dog she's met all of 4 times is a good example of all chow/labs in all life stages. AND SHE'S STILL AFRAID OF DOGS.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:56 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Sigh......
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Dog laws may be lax in your county, but how about child protection laws?

She is willingly, knowingly putting her little girl at risk by placing her anywhere near an aggressive dog.

It is such a shame, Dogo's are fantastic animals, they are fiercely protective of both home and will defend the owner too. They are a formidable dog to look at, a friend of my son has one and when she comes down to the gate all barks and threats you do not touch that lock I can tell you.

It is such a shame that your numbskull cousin doesnt have a clue as to what to do with regards training etc, but as has been said on this site many times, 'you cannot fix stupid'.

As for the families assertions that your GSD's of old attacked your younger cousin.

You should say this to them.

Did she have her arm/s ripped off?

No.

How about her leg/s?

No to that as well.

Well then, did she have her throat ripped out?

Oooh guess what, that's a NO! too.

So guess who didnt get attacked by 3 big GSD's. Now grow up and please shut the heck up, because you don't half sound like a bunch of imbeciles when you spout such crap.

By the way this is what we said to someone from our village (we are in a dispute with him over some land) who reckoned Toby had attacked him one day when..

a) He hadn't gone near him and he was a mere 6-7 month old pup.

He stood in the middle of the village saying how dangerous Toby was and despite my son saying otherwise he was gaining support until my son looked him up and down and asked him how his arms, legs and throat were.
When the guy looked confused my son then explained.

That if our big bad a$$ Dobe had attacked him so viciously without provocation then surely he would be minus an arm, leg or have his bloody throat ripped out. Instead he was unharmed because Toby hadn't touched him.

Luckily for us, the village folk agreed with my son and laughed the guy down.

But some people, huh!
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Good thing I don't know her. I think at that point all patience and tact would be out the window and I'd have said something like "WOW! You're really up there on your own level of stupid aren't you? Oh, and when your child is dead, remember its YOUR fault, not the dog's."

I'm sorry, family or not I'd end up being really, really harsh and blunt with someone putting their 2 year old out back unsupervised with a severely unsocialized and untrained Dog on a Chain. I may not be able to call AC on them, but I could darn well call CPS.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I also like Dogos. They're great dogs, in the right hands. I had a friend in college whose service dog (wheelchair assist) was a Dogo- but this is not a breed that should ever be chained in the backyard. They need to be with their people, just like Dobes, and they are a very powerful breed. I would never put any child in a yard with a chained-up, 2 year old, frustrated Dogo.

That would definitely warrant a call to CPS. You're right, she's set up the perfect recipe for an attack.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:58 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks guys. As you may have guessed, she got the dog while she was still pregnant with her daughter as a spur-of-the-moment idea that her house and new family needed to be protected. I won't deny that they live in a bad neighborhood, but honestly I think a gun would protect them better than a dog chained up out back.

The way I understand it, I cannot call CPS on her putting her child in the backyard with a dangerous dog until the dog "counts" as a dangerous dog. Which means she needs to bite a person or an animal first. Until then all I can do is call AC and say that the dog is an undersocialized barking mess and they will do absolutely zip about it as long as my cousin keeps up with PA's laws regarding outdoor dogs. Pretty much, I'm being forced to watch a ticking time bomb that I know exactly how to disarm but am not being allowed to.

Trust me, if it were not for my parents, tact would have flown out the window a long time ago. You cannot tell these people anything and this is not the first time I have been frustrated by their treatment of animals. On this side of the family there is also a little boy who thinks it's a fun game to put cats in cardboard boxes and throw them down stairs. Their cat eventually scratched him and they "got rid of it" (I think they just threw it outside tbh) and without an animal to investigate again my hands regarding AC are tied. It's gotten to the point where I just excuse myself from the table/room when they start talking about their animals, because otherwise I won't be able to hold myself back. When I still lived at home and they visited, I made sure my animals were locked in my room and I would hide in there when they started animal conversations at the table. They're not welcome in my current place for a variety of reasons, but the free-roaming animals are part of it.

You can't even tell them to leave the animals alone. We allowed Mocha to free-roam with them because 1- they're not willing to accept my father's deafness even though that's HIS family and Mocha alerts him when they call for him and 2- since she is smaller and has a less "guard dog" appearance, she scares them less. We told this cousin NOT to let her baby take things from Mocha (because we didn't know how she'd react to a stranger snatching something from her)... she could pet her if she wanted but don't let her snatch anything. What does the cousin do? When the baby was reaching for the toy (and we started moving out of our chairs to stop this), she says "get the toy!" to her kid... who then snatches it from Mocha. Luckily Mocha was willing to give up her new hedgehog and the baby was not harmed, just pestered for it back.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I feel sorry for the dogs.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I also feel sorry for the dogs.

Jazi, how the hell can the authorities justify waiting for something to happen, ie the child bitten before they will do anything. Shades of Baby P or what.

I truly did not know that America had so many a$$holes in authority. Even if they won't do anything because the dog hasnt bitten anyone or anything I would still suggest you report it to them. They will surely be duty bound to put it on file and if, god forbid anything were to ever happen you will know you did the best you could for that child and of course the dog.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I am saying this to protect your dog, but pick up all the toys when the kid is over. Just because she didn't bite this time doesn't mean she won't the next. I know you have a good dog but even good dogs have bad days
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Hoo boy, that's a sad and scary situation I have no advice to add, unfortunately, though I'll come back if I think of something.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Too bad you cannot steal the Dogo find it a new home any dog on a chain can be dangerous that is one reason pit Bulls have the reputation they do because dumb people chain them up. Chaining any dog will usually make it mean drives them crazy to be out on a chain 24/7 too bad you cannot chain the people up 24/7 see how they like it.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:11 PM   #12 (permalink)
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CPS shouldn't need the dog to be a biter to get involved, the mere act of leaving a 2 year old outside unsupervised would be enough to get CPS to do a child welfare check in in many states... The chained dog in the yard would just add to it. No parent should leave their kid unattended with a dog, no matter what the breed. ESPECIALLY a chained dog and a toddler. (its child neglect & child endangerment.)

You'd be AMAZED at some of the stories I hear from parents about CPS getting involved. Military families seem to have made an art out of reporting each other over petty things. :/

Parents or no, someone needs to go off on that cousin, before the dog and child pay the ultimate price for her stupidity.

This is why I never, ever, ever have sympathy for a parent of a child killed by the family pet. It almost always seems to involve a lack of common sense, like leaving the child alone or having a child playing with a toy or food around a group of dogs or some other (not so) brilliant idea. And I'll be honest, if I heard about this woman's child death... I'd think she was the scum of the earth and feel no pitty for her. I'd pitty her child and dog. And I wouldn't agree one bit that the loss of her child was punishment enough. These situatons turn my stomach. The family needs to disregard your cousins feelings and get that situation changed for the sake of the toddler (and the dog, who is being set up to fail).

Sure, the dog may never hurt the child, an accident may never happen where the child gets too close to a frustrated, chained dog... But is that really a chance worth taking with an unsupervised toddler and a chained, unsocialized, untrained dog? Particularly a large, powerful one?

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Old 12-26-2012, 05:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
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This is the reason I feel that All dog breeders need to really scrutinize possible owners. Your sister is getting the wrong types of dogs for the wrong reasons. She is NOT knowledgable to own this type of breed. That kind of dog needs socialization not chained up away from it's family. I hope for the sake of her kids and the dog, you can convince her to find it a home where the right person can teach it and love it like it needs.

It's just not worth having a dead child and losing a dog because it wasn't treated right and well you know what I mean. Have you given her some information about this breed so she can learn something about them or have her look it up on the internet, find her a breeder who can talk to her.. I just hate hearing stuff like this, ya know some people just shouldn't have pets of any kind. I have always been told and understand why, but you should never leave children alone with any dogs.

Putting cats in boxes and throwing them down the stairs, really? and what does that prove? the parents think this is appropriate behavior?

There was a sad sad case here in my town some time back with a pitbull pup not a yr yet who kept eating the kid's lunch. The dad decided taking a machette was the answer. Went to trial think all he got was a fine. ( I wanted to sit on that trial, then I was a board member of our shelter, but it was postponed ) this is just some stupid things stupid people do but it's at the mercy of innocent animals.

I wish you luck in this sad story, I hope we don't hear tragedy down the road.

remember, when a breed especially like this bites or kills a person, that breed is marked as a vicious breed and only fuels the reason for banning of that breed. Another reason breeders need to be very selective of selling puppies.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Too bad you cannot steal the Dogo find it a new home any dog on a chain can be dangerous that is one reason pit Bulls have the reputation they do because dumb people chain them up. Chaining any dog will usually make it mean drives them crazy to be out on a chain 24/7 too bad you cannot chain the people up 24/7 see how they like it.
EXACTLY! I had some neighbors who had a dog chained up a beautiful young husky. No water, no food and over 90 degrees out .. NO ONE home. I gave the dog water and when he got home, I told him that If I ever saw that again, the dog would be mine, and I would chain him up outside with 2 coats on for about 4 hours and see how he liked it !!
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:31 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I am basically a major cynic! And I have to tell you that it sounds like your cousin or whatever she is was trying to get your dog to bite the baby, when she told the baby to get it! I would tell her to do the physically impossible, and let her know that she is NOT welcome in your house especially with the baby. I would also continue to call Animal Control and document everything. Unfortunately there is no test to own animals or have children. If they were available, your cousin would have failed both! Stupid is as stupid does! I hope that the situation changes for all involved especially the dogo and the baby.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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This is the reason I feel that All dog breeders need to really scrutinize possible owners. Your sister is getting the wrong types of dogs for the wrong reasons... [snip]
While I do not approve of one of my sisters' decisions regarding dogs (re:frustration over Titan) either, it's my cousin who has the Dogo. My sister at least has the sense to try and make right her lack of socialization with kids with her dog and is trying to fix this before she starts having children herself. My cousin is the one who thinks it's a good idea to put a baby out with a frustrated chained dog.

According to the parents of the little boy with the cat throwing, they think it's just him "being a boy" and "playing" and "if they didn't like it they wouldn't 'let' him put them in the box to begin with". Yeah.

I wouldn't put it past her to have purposely tried to provoke a bite- which is why instead of no toys next time, Mocha just won't be interacting with the "guests" and will have to be locked up and away like the GSDs were. Considering she's done other things to "prove" that our animals are "just mean" (ie; cornering and tormenting our previous feral rescue who responded with quite a bit of understandable anger), you can see why I made sure any animal I was personally responsible for was locked away and not made available to them... and why they're not welcome where I live now.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:38 AM   #17 (permalink)
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While I do not approve of one of my sisters' decisions regarding dogs (re:frustration over Titan) either, it's my cousin who has the Dogo. My sister at least has the sense to try and make right her lack of socialization with kids with her dog and is trying to fix this before she starts having children herself. My cousin is the one who thinks it's a good idea to put a baby out with a frustrated chained dog.

According to the parents of the little boy with the cat throwing, they think it's just him "being a boy" and "playing" and "if they didn't like it they wouldn't 'let' him put them in the box to begin with". Yeah.

I wouldn't put it past her to have purposely tried to provoke a bite- which is why instead of no toys next time, Mocha just won't be interacting with the "guests" and will have to be locked up and away like the GSDs were. Considering she's done other things to "prove" that our animals are "just mean" (ie; cornering and tormenting our previous feral rescue who responded with quite a bit of understandable anger), you can see why I made sure any animal I was personally responsible for was locked away and not made available to them... and why they're not welcome where I live now.
Sorry, but your cousin is seriously sick in the head.

I second keeping her and her child in fact the whole of that side of that family from your dog. In fact I just wouldn't let any of them visit.

They all sound sick in the head. No offence, but they do.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:22 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Hey Jazi, sorry if I misunderstood you. You just really have well you are in the middle of all this I think. I just see alot of red flags concerning this dog and kids and your cousin just all of it. It is just well messed up lol.

I know that a dog like that bites anyone and is duped vicious and put on the "list" if ya understand what I mean. Breeders should really consider who is taking their pups and for what reason before ever selling them. It just isn't fair to the dog or the person who is hmmm a novice for lack of a better word. I had a situation with my grandson and my Jasmine a long time ago. Long story and all is ok now, but man because of what he said thinking it was cool almost cost me my beloved girl. AND I was prepared to make my daughter and grandson move out because of it. He is older now and understands how telling stories can do so much harm.. hard lesson learned.. I guess that is why I just am concerned for your situation. It really hit home.

I hope with you and your knowledge all will be just be hunky dory!
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Um... WOW!
Sigh..


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Old 12-29-2012, 06:35 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Yikes! She's giving that baby something to be scared of, and ruining what was probably a loving family oriented puppy.


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Old 12-31-2012, 10:17 PM   #21 (permalink)
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This may sounds really ridiculous to everyone... but have you tried bullying your cousin? Stupid people tend to respond to stupidity instead of intellectual conversation. If you called her often and made her feel like absolute **** for treating her dog the way she does and being a terrible parent, perhaps one day she will care for the animal properly or re-home it, just to stop her family from thinking she is a terrible person and pestering her about the situation. Send her e-mails often of animal abuse cases of pities and other bully dogs with pictures of giant chains on their necks and ask her how she is any different? Be harsh wish her. Tact will go nowhere. The dogs and the childs safety are more important than how your cousin and your relationship dynamic is.

Just a thought... I really hope this gets resolved. Poor dog..
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
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While I do not approve of one of my sisters' decisions regarding dogs (re:frustration over Titan) either, it's my cousin who has the Dogo. My sister at least has the sense to try and make right her lack of socialization with kids with her dog and is trying to fix this before she starts having children herself. My cousin is the one who thinks it's a good idea to put a baby out with a frustrated chained dog.

According to the parents of the little boy with the cat throwing, they think it's just him "being a boy" and "playing" and "if they didn't like it they wouldn't 'let' him put them in the box to begin with". Yeah.

I wouldn't put it past her to have purposely tried to provoke a bite- which is why instead of no toys next time, Mocha just won't be interacting with the "guests" and will have to be locked up and away like the GSDs were. Considering she's done other things to "prove" that our animals are "just mean" (ie; cornering and tormenting our previous feral rescue who responded with quite a bit of understandable anger), you can see why I made sure any animal I was personally responsible for was locked away and not made available to them... and why they're not welcome where I live now.
Uh, if ANY of my family members did this, I don't care who it is, I would have kicked them out of my house right then and there and told them they are no longer welcome.
How you treat your dog, is your business, but how you treat MY dog, is MY BUSINESS.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:07 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Uh, if ANY of my family members did this, I don't care who it is, I would have kicked them out of my house right then and there and told them they are no longer welcome.
How you treat your dog, is your business, but how you treat MY dog, is MY BUSINESS.
I would, trust me, like I said I've made it plain that they're not welcome here because my animals deserve a safe place to be after all they've been through considering 2/3s of them are rescues from already not great situations. My parents are of the opinion that short-term guests is still doable provided any tormenting of free-roaming animals (ie, cats and dogs) is "minimal" in their eyes and so they are still welcomed at that house while the animals living there are greatly inconvenienced. It's especially bothersome because Mocha was ~my~ dog before I moved out and she's only my parents' dog now because they decided that they don't want to give her up. And since you have to be 18 to register a dog in your name and I was 16 when we took in her litter, I've got no legal grounds to claim her as mine either. So she's stuck. I'm stuck. That poor Dogo is stuck.

I would say the same thing to them that my nephew said to one of his "friends" who, out of the blue, smacked his dog across the face. "I saw that and you are not welcome to share this space with my dog as a result, get out before you're not welcome to be in my life anymore either." He doesn't even think to offer tact when addressing something that serious, and neither do I. Sadly, not my house not my rules situation which sucks for everyone involved. It's pretty sad when my 14yo nephew is more knowledgeable about respecting dogs than my near-30yo cousin.

And now you know why I am so. Freaking. Frustrated. My nephew is the youngest "adult" of the family, then another cousin who is 15, then it's me at 20, and that side of the family is having difficulty separating me from the teenagers despite the 5 year difference, even the ones that are only a year or two older than me. Anything I say is regarded as me not knowing how the world works and I'll learn how animals really think one day when I'm an adult. "Now don't question the adults' methods with their animals you need to learn that children are to be seen and not heard you may join the adult conversation when you are an adult," is their usual response when I pipe up- timidly even- on something that doesn't sit right with me. It's a big pile of mess that any sensible dog person would have exploded over a long time ago and it's like I've got duct tape branded onto my mouth for all the good my attempts on education have been.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:25 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I married aged 16. Still folk treat me as a child.

When I married I went to live overseas with my hubby. (he was 18 and in the RAF). Still folk treat me like a child.

When I became pregnant aged 18. I was treat like a child.

As a young mother I was treat like a child.

Until one day when I turned around and pointed out that age does not make you an adult. It is ones state of mind and how mature one acts.

Sounds to me, you are the only adult in your family (other than your nephew).

Don't let anyone push you around, stand up and be heard.
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