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Old 11-21-2012, 01:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Hi all!!

Im Porshas mom. after wanting a Dobie since i was a kid and took care of the neighbors red male Zepplin. Just this last saturday, I was able to get a cream/white girl. (I was told she was a WHITE, and they drove 3 hours to bring her to me) I didnt know till i actually saw her that she was crean/white. I cant get pics on here yet, but im trying. I looked this site up online bcuz I wanted to learn more about the breed, and was told she has allergies to wheat and corn based foods. She is 16 mos old, untrained, except she is polite in the house, (well, her and my 2 boxers will wrestle in my tiny living room, bur thats not ALWAYS a bad thing!! LOL LOL ) She is doing very well on the leash these last 3 days, and i will start more training after this week, but shes a REALLY nice girl, and she THINKS!! Which I like in a furkid! I am a mom of many, and almost an "empty nester" soon, my last person baby is graduating this yr!! I have rescued dogs/ponies and birds over the years, and my family calls home "the zoo", as there are furkids/featherbutts, and usually some fins/scales aind crawlies around the house. I think big spiders and bugs are COOL, and interesting!! well, I guess thats me in my zoo nutshell. Hope to learn alot and meet a few cool ppl here. well, im off to look around a lil. Have a good holiday season all.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Be nice. Be nice. Be nice.

Hi and welcome from Southern Manitoba. Did you purchase this puppy from a "breeder"?
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Hi, and welcome to the forum. Your girl is actually an albino. "White" is what greeders (greedy breeders) and BYB (back yard breeders) call them. Here is the link to the DPCA's information about albino Dobes. DPCA | The Doberman | Albino | What is albino Albino dogs tend to have health problems unique to them, above and beyond the usual Doberman problems.

Please stick around, and learn all you can about Dobes in general, and albinos in particular.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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No, I could never affoard breeder prices, which are about 2 months of rent for me! but I know there are always Dobies going to rescues, and 1 or 2 in shelters, so i knew there were a few out there needing homes, not for 'sale". ( im a single mom, hardly keeping above water, like most out there) So i posted a wanted ad online for the last month or so, and her owner answered it. They only had her a month, and found out she was TOO MUCH for them. They couldnt even walk her on a leash. LOL me, the boys and her walk a mile or 2 a day. i think she had been thru a rescue, but the LAST owner couldnt get too much unfo from the person before her. She does have a cpl scars that look like she was thrown out of a moving car tho. SO, her history is not there, except wat i will find out when i call the last owners vet, its all a guess, besides what she tells me by her actions.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Okay, then, you are going to need to find out some things about her. First off, is she spayed? If she's not, then she needs to be. You don't want to risk an accidental litter. Also, albinos should never be bred on purpose, because albinism is a genetic defect.

Before you have her spayed, though (if she's not already), you need to find out her vWD status. You can order the test yourself from VetGen, and then just follow the directions once you get it. In case you don't know, vWD is a bleeding disorder. If she's affected, she could have trouble with producing enough clotting factors, and surgery might be riskier. It's always a good idea to know your Dobe's vWD status, just in case of emergencies.

Also, make sure she's had all her puppy shots and at least one adult booster. There are several different theories about vaccination schedules, so that is also something you will need to reserarch.

There are lots of other things you need to learn about also. This is the DPCA's page about common health problems in the breed. http://dpca.org/breed/breed_health.htm
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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No, I could never affoard breeder prices, which are about 2 months of rent for me! but I know there are always Dobies going to rescues, and 1 or 2 in shelters, so i knew there were a few out there needing homes, not for 'sale". ( im a single mom, hardly keeping above water, like most out there) So i posted a wanted ad online for the last month or so, and her owner answered it. They only had her a month, and found out she was TOO MUCH for them. They couldnt even walk her on a leash. LOL me, the boys and her walk a mile or 2 a day. i think she had been thru a rescue, but the LAST owner couldnt get too much unfo from the person before her. She does have a cpl scars that look like she was thrown out of a moving car tho. SO, her history is not there, except wat i will find out when i call the last owners vet, its all a guess, besides what she tells me by her actions.
Hello. I am trying really hard to understand. If you are "hardly keeping above water", another dog, especially a Dobie pup, is probably not a wise decision. I work with animals and see every day how people LOVE their pets, but are unable to properly care for them because that care, routine or emergency, costs money. It upsets me that good people have good intentions, then the animals suffer or get put to sleep because the degree of responsibility wasn't fully understood. I truly wish the very best for you and your new pup.

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Old 11-21-2012, 03:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Dogs are expensive... dobermans are really expensive... white dobermans, take out a second mortgage...

This is something I read in an article once, and from what I have read, it rings true. If you are a single mother, I assume you work a lot, who is going to be looking after the dog?
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Hi and welcome to DT.

Congrats on your new girl and please read up on albinos. They do require sunscreen especially on the nose and ears as well as eye protection if they are outside a lot in bright sunlight. Albino's also tend to be quirky also but usually in a good way. Sadly there are many in rescue as dobes in general are to much for most average pet owners and it takes a really special person to love the albinos

Please post some pics of your girl.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Hi every1, ok, if i can first thank all the ppl who added links of special intrest to me, i appriciate it. Now lets see, YES she is spayed,i made sure or I would have had her done as my 1 boxer is not neutered YET, and my other i want to get a son out of before he gets old. My schedual is my own, i can work basically any hours i want, and i do my own training, ect. Umm, oh, did i forget to mention that i sometimes foster and temperment test for a local rescue, and the couple of times i have needed a vet, for somthing 1 couldnt handle, they were there to help with vet issues. LUCKILY, I have only needed a vet maybe 3 times, in the last about the last 15 years. ( not counting rabies shots). I do my shots, teeth cleaning if they start getting tarter, and i have a 14 yr daughter, and 16 yr old mother chihuahua, that only ever needed a vet to be spayed. NEVER needed one to this day, and they still race around the living room like they were 4 months old!! Anyway, yea, i wasnt looking for a CREAM with white markings dobie, (i thought the dogs that were ACTUALLY snow white in color were whites) that was just the first one that needed a new home, and had the temperment to fit in our family. our family sticks together, we get fat together and we get skinny together, we all manage, we all make sure you know?? Thats what tight familys do, and we ALL consider our pets are our kids, and they are with us as long as they live. well, i did have to sell my horse last year, but My family is VERY blessed. And if it DID come down to it, and she was MORE than I could $$ handle, I would place her in a home that would be MORE suited to her special needs, and would also love her. i would also be GREATFUL for the time she is with me, and all she taught me, just like I do with any rescues or fosters that come into my life! ANYWAY, yea, i cant wait to learn more about my new buddy, and watch her blossom in training, and stuff. When do they stop growing? and do they get their bulk after a few adult years, or when they outgrow the 'teenager" stage? Well wish me luck with her, she is a wonderful furkid, REALLY smart, and a joy to have around. I cant wait to discover more of her story, as I spend time with her, and watch her reactions to things. i will try to get pics up as soon as I can, but in not really good at it.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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And if it DID come down to it, and she was MORE than I could $$ handle, I would place her in a home that would be MORE suited to her special needs, and would also love her.
Truly, I am not trying to be mean here - if you care about this dog, and I think that you do, do that now. Today. Yesterday.

I am sure that your family is great, tight, loving, etc., but that is so, so, so beside the point when you are taking on a dog that you know going in will be special needs with the plan to get rid of her if she gets to be a challenge. She will. And then she'll be attached to you and shuffled around to yet another home, presumably with health issues on top of it by then.

There is nothing about that that is fair to this dog. Absolutely nothing.

If your general plan for vet care is to go there for rabies vaccines and emergency care, you are not the right home for this dog - or any doberman, but never, ever an albino.

A doberman requires preventative testing that will blow your mind, and that goes double for an albino. She needs on at minimum a yearly basis, a thyroid test, an echo and Holter - heart tests. The cost of those things is extremely high, and that is baseline preventative testing. That is not treatment.

From your post I gather that you have at least two other dogs. Love them, enjoy them, and get this girl into a reputable doberman rescue that can give her the care that she needs.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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and my other i want to get a son out of before he gets old. .
Please, please don't become another BYB contributing to all the dogs dying in shelters.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:00 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Please, please don't become another BYB contributing to all the dogs dying in shelters.
Glad someone addressed that. I really just didn't even know where to begin.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Truly, I am not trying to be mean here - if you care about this dog, and I think that you do, do that now. Today. Yesterday.

I am sure that your family is great, tight, loving, etc., but that is so, so, so beside the point when you are taking on a dog that you know going in will be special needs with the plan to get rid of her if she gets to be a challenge. She will. And then she'll be attached to you and shuffled around to yet another home, presumably with health issues on top of it by then.

There is nothing about that that is fair to this dog. Absolutely nothing.

If your general plan for vet care is to go there for rabies vaccines and emergency care, you are not the right home for this dog - or any doberman, but never, ever an albino.

A doberman requires preventative testing that will blow your mind, and that goes double for an albino. She needs on at minimum a yearly basis, a thyroid test, an echo and Holter - heart tests. The cost of those things is extremely high, and that is baseline preventative testing. That is not treatment.

From your post I gather that you have at least two other dogs. Love them, enjoy them, and get this girl into a reputable doberman rescue that can give her the care that she needs.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with the idea of required yearly holters, echos and thyroid tests for a spayed pet. I test for thyroid if they are showing symptoms and if they need an echo or holter because they come down with cardio they will get them. I also cannot think of one thing that albino needs to be tested for that a standard colored dog does not nor do I think they need double the amount of testing.


To the OP I do find it extemely sad and disheartening that for all your proclaimed talk of being active in rescue your own dog is intact and you wish to breed him. A quick petfinder search in my area shows 8500 available boxers and boxer mixes for adoption. Hell even Illinois Doberman rescue has a boxer for adoption.
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:08 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Welcome from nyc. Dobermans fully mature physically at 3 years of age, as for memtal maturity......could be never. Good luck albino doberman they can be a challange.
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:45 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dobejazz View Post
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with the idea of required yearly holters, echos and thyroid tests for a spayed pet. I test for thyroid if they are showing symptoms and if they need an echo or holter because they come down with cardio they will get them. I also cannot think of one thing that albino needs to be tested for that a standard colored dog does not nor do I think they need double the amount of testing.
Dobejazz, fair enough. I had pulled recommended testing from a thread in Doberman Health (What tests/exams need to be done on an annual basis?) when I was making a list of what needed to be done annually for Java. Also, don't mean to suggest that an albino requires additional testing (I probably worded that wrong, it had been a long day of holiday baking), but rather that the overall healthcare of an albino may exceed even the standard amount for a doberman.

So to clarify for the OP, I don't think that there is a universally agreed-upon testing/healthcare protocol, but testing is needed, and personally I would err on the side of frequent testing with a dog who hasn't come from a reputable breeder who has health tested the dog's ancestors (as mine also is). However, whatever testing protocol you decide on (and there is certainly boatloads of flexibility in which tests you opt for, starting when, and how often), the cost is going to add up. I don't get the impression from your posts that you are financially prepared to take responsibility for the lifetime of care that this dog will need. If you are indeed affiliated with rescue, I think that you will recognize the logic that every dog is not right for everyone, and good people often end up with dogs that they are not prepared to care for.
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:48 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Thanks for the feedback. OK well, i dont PLAN on getting rid of her if she becomes a challenge, or I NEVER would have got an UNTRAINED teen! But MOST avarage ppl, have a financial limit,somthing other people, fortunatly for them, dont understand....... And my Boxer i want to get a pup from SOMEDAY, he is my trained assistance dog. LOL Iv had him 4 yrs now, and havnt found a nice enough girl to breed him with YET, so its NOT like ima let him breed WATEVER runs down the street. And I got him, as a victem of forclosure, wen someone let him and his buddy loose after they lost thier home and moved away. I have no pappers on him, but the couple of show judges that have seen him, say his conformation is GREAT, and have asked if he has papers.......so....yea. But I DO appriciate the passion you BIG breeders have for your breed. Thing is, MOST of us these days are from a NOT so fancy or privaledged life. But we manage to keep bills paid, and pantry stocked, even if we cant affoard a motor home, for "show weekends", or dont have thousands in the bank, ( if anything at all), but we can keep our pets healthy, loved, and they are our family, as much as yours are. I know USUALLY, wen i see a Dobie, Pit or Rottie in a yard, they are YARD dogs, not sleeping on thier owners beds every nite, like mine do. And the owners are AWAY working LONG hours, to have the expensive cars, homes, horses and DOGS, that they glance at on the way in and out the door. Even if they call the vet for every flea they find, are they TRULY a better home? A better pack for thier pets? As far as I know, a dog and most living creatures would rather have a full belly, and be family, IN the house, than a thousand trips to the vet, and a nice big cage with air conditioning in someones "million dollar" kennel. .............but i DO have another question, i never knew Dobies to be OVERBRED, like Chihuahuas, pits, ect, because Dobies are not EASY to find on every street. But even THOSE breeds, dont have more than a couple of issues, in general,. So how come, as a mostly, CAREFULLY kept breed, do Dobies have so MANY health related issues these days?? Seems like they were healthier overall "back in the day", but you guys have REALLY been CAREFUL with everything as far as I can tell.. I always though of them as a STURDIER breed. Did Dobies have all these issues 30-40 yrs ago, and most average ppl didnt realize?? I TRULY admire todays Dobie they are a BEAUTIFUL, regal animal. THANK YOU to all the dedicated breeders, old time and new. And again, THANKS to all who have replied, I am learning ALOT on this forum.

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Old 11-22-2012, 05:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porshas Mom View Post
And my Boxer i want to get a pup from SOMEDAY, he is my trained assistance dog. LOL Iv had him 4 yrs now, and havnt found a nice enough girl to breed him with YET, so its NOT like ima let him breed WATEVER runs down the street.
Please, please don't do that. There are a lot lot lot of people out there that believe that their dog is so great and breed them. Thank you rescue shelters for taking so many of those in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porshas Mom View Post
I have no pappers on him, but the couple of show judges that have seen him, say his conformation is GREAT, and have asked if he has papers.......so....yea.
If you are not showing your dog you should not be breeding your dog. Without showing you have no proof that your dog is actually good at doing what he/the breed is intended to do. In addition to this, you should look into all of the health testing that must be done before responsibly breeding a boxer.

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Originally Posted by Porshas Mom View Post
But I DO appriciate the passion you BIG breeders have for your breed.
Most of us here, aren't actually breeders. We're regular pet owners like you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porshas Mom View Post
So how come, as a mostly, CAREFULLY kept breed, do Dobies have so MANY health related issues these days??

Seems like they were healthier overall "back in the day", but you guys have REALLY been CAREFUL with everything as far as I can tell.. I always though of them as a STURDIER breed. Did Dobies have all these issues 30-40 yrs ago, and most average ppl didnt realize??
I hope someone else can chime in with an answer to this one, as I don't feel I'm well educated enough on the subject to give a good answer.

Also, paragaphs are your friend .
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:48 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks for the feedback. OK well, i dont PLAN on getting rid of her if she becomes a challenge, or I NEVER would have got an UNTRAINED teen! But MOST avarage ppl, have a financial limit,somthing other people, fortunatly for them, dont understand.......
Yes, lots of us do have financial limits. I had to take money out of my kids' savings accounts to take my 12 year old Rattie to the vet last week, due to an injury (he sprained his neck). I still need to get my GSD spayed, some of my cats need their rabies shots...

And my Boxer i want to get a pup from SOMEDAY, he is my trained assistance dog. LOL Iv had him 4 yrs now, and havnt found a nice enough girl to breed him with YET, so its NOT like ima let him breed WATEVER runs down the street. And I got him, as a victem of forclosure, wen someone let him and his buddy loose after they lost thier home and moved away. I have no pappers on him, but the couple of show judges that have seen him, say his conformation is GREAT, and have asked if he has papers.......so....yea.
Sorry, but no papers is a good enough reason not to breed him. Also, you want one puppy. What would happen to the other puppies in the litter? Who would be resposible for them? Other people here have intact, registered and titled males as service dogs, and don't intend to breed them.

But I DO appriciate the passion you BIG breeders have for your breed. Thing is, MOST of us these days are from a NOT so fancy or privaledged life. But we manage to keep bills paid, and pantry stocked, even if we cant affoard a motor home, for "show weekends", or dont have thousands in the bank, ( if anything at all), but we can keep our pets healthy, loved, and they are our family, as much as yours are.
Not one person who has posted on this thread is a breeder, big or otherwise. At least three of us own rescues, and one is an active rescue volunteer.

I know USUALLY, wen i see a Dobie, Pit or Rottie in a yard, they are YARD dogs, not sleeping on thier owners beds every nite, like mine do. And the owners are AWAY working LONG hours, to have the expensive cars, homes, horses and DOGS, that they glance at on the way in and out the door. Even if they call the vet for every flea they find, are they TRULY a better home? A better pack for thier pets? As far as I know, a dog and most living creatures would rather have a full belly, and be family, IN the house, than a thousand trips to the vet, and a nice big cage with air conditioning in someones "million dollar" kennel.
Yeah, well, there are lousy owners at all levels of society, I'll grant you that.

.............but i DO have another question, i never knew Dobies to be OVERBRED, like Chihuahuas, pits, ect, because Dobies are not EASY to find on every street. But even THOSE breeds, dont have more than a couple of issues, in general,. So how come, as a mostly, CAREFULLY kept breed, do Dobies have so MANY health related issues these days?? Seems like they were healthier overall "back in the day", but you guys have REALLY been CAREFUL with everything as far as I can tell.. I always though of them as a STURDIER breed. Did Dobies have all these issues 30-40 yrs ago, and most average ppl didnt realize??
The curse of any breed is to become popular. And yes, Dobes have their share of health problems, made worse by indescriminate breeding. Ask any knowledgable Dobe person about greeders and puppymills, and you're likely to hear more than you'd ever want to know about them. There is one very large kennel in PA (well known to the rescue community) that breeds literally hundreds of puppies a year.

I TRULY admire todays Dobie they are a BEAUTIFUL, regal animal. THANK YOU to all the dedicated breeders, old time and new. And again, THANKS to all who have replied, I am learning ALOT on this forum.
Please, do stick around and learn all you can about Dobes. They are great dogs.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:44 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
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OK well, i dont PLAN on getting rid of her if she becomes a challenge, or I NEVER would have got an UNTRAINED teen!
From your previous post:

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Originally Posted by Porshas Mom View Post
And if it DID come down to it, and she was MORE than I could $$ handle, I would place her in a home that would be MORE suited to her special needs, and would also love her.
When I say "if she becomes a challenge," I do not mean a behavioral challenge. Not that that may not be somewhat of a concern, but I do think that years as a pet owner count for at least something in terms of whether you can train a new dog, and I know nothing about your capabilities there. All the experience and good intentions in the world are just not substitutes for proper health care. Please believe, I have no doubt at all that your intentions are entirely good. I really admire your through-thick-and-thin attitude toward your family, and I do not mean any of this as a personal attack. That said - not everyone is the right fit for every dog, and this sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

Quote:
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But MOST avarage ppl, have a financial limit,somthing other people, fortunatly for them, dont understand.......
And on the contrary - I am a college student with zero family support. I was raised dirt poor. I'm not now, nor have I ever been, wealthy. There is very much a financial limit. However, I believe strongly that pets are a luxury, not a right, and they did not ask to be brought into a situation where they may end up having an emergency or serious illness and their caretaker had no plan for that. Do I think that every dog needs ultra-plush kennels, beds, the best of the best food? No. It'd be nice, but I agree with you that a warm, loving home is more important than that. Where we differ is that I believe that having a dog - any dog, but in particular a breed prone to myriad health issues - who may bloat, who may be vWD affected and be seriously hurt by a cut that may not be serious for another dog, have an internal blockage, the list goes on...and end up suffering, euthanized, or ripped from that warm, loving home because their owner was unprepared for that situation, is wrong. It isn't fair. The dog doesn't get a say in where it lives...it's up to us to not take on something that we are not prepared to be fully responsible for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porshas Mom View Post
But I DO appriciate the passion you BIG breeders have for your breed. Thing is, MOST of us these days are from a NOT so fancy or privaledged life. But we manage to keep bills paid, and pantry stocked, even if we cant affoard a motor home, for "show weekends", or dont have thousands in the bank, ( if anything at all), but we can keep our pets healthy, loved, and they are our family, as much as yours are. I know USUALLY, wen i see a Dobie, Pit or Rottie in a yard, they are YARD dogs, not sleeping on thier owners beds every nite, like mine do. And the owners are AWAY working LONG hours, to have the expensive cars, homes, horses and DOGS, that they glance at on the way in and out the door. Even if they call the vet for every flea they find, are they TRULY a better home? A better pack for thier pets? As far as I know, a dog and most living creatures would rather have a full belly, and be family, IN the house, than a thousand trips to the vet, and a nice big cage with air conditioning in someones "million dollar" kennel. .............
You make a great case for why it's fine to own a dog without a "million dollar" home, but absolutely none for why you should be breeding. Would you want your doctor to say "Well, I don't have any particular training and I've never demonstrated that I know how to do this well, but why shouldn't I perform surgery on you?" It boggles my mind that in one post you are thanking "dedicated" breeders and breeding a dog that has met absolutely no criteria that would make him acceptable to breed. Breeding dogs reputably is work. It is an incredible amount of responsibility to bring lives into this world and know that your knowledge of and accountability for everything - in health, temperament, and confirmation - will directly relate to their quality of life for the next decade and a half. It takes a great deal of preparedness to be willing and able to take back into your home each and every life you create in the event that their new owner should be unable to keep them. Breeding reputably is about so unbelievably much more than confirmation. People devote their lives to improving, preserving, and bettering their breeds, and it is incredibly insulting to them to say that anyone who loves their dog should be breeding it.
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:24 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Brianne29, and everyon1, THANK YOU. VERY WEL put on ALOT of points you have made. REALLY showing me points to think about. I have just wanted a dobie for SO LONG, and finally found a young dog i could actually affoard, even knowing there could be a few issues. I was NEVER TOLD,, nor read up on ENOUGH, about these albino dogs. I TRULY thought the breed was a VERY HARDY breed, and had NO idea there were SO many issues Tho I Do know a little, and DO know white Dobies have issues. I was actually hoping for a black. I may not be the RIGHT home for her in the long run, but am WAY better than the last. At least she is getting trained here, and going ALOT of places with me, getting socialized, no matter how long she is with me.. Better my home than ppl she literally DRUG around on a leash, out of control, or a shelter or rescue in a year when she got out of control totally and somthing happened. Guess it just depends how you look at it. But ill do my best to make sure she is a healthy, happy, well mannered furkid..
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Greetings from Long Island, NY, and Welcome to DT.

I think, it's great you've come to the right place, You can take full advantage of what is here, and soak up the years of experience, and knowledge, gather up support when you need it.
Looking forward to hearing how things are coming along for you. :-)
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:20 PM   #25 (permalink)
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If this dobe was indeed originally adopted from a rescue, you need to try and get in contact with that rescue, especially if she is from a Doberman rescue. Rescues have legal binding adoption contracts that state the dog must be returned to them if the adopter cannot keep it for whatever reason. I would ask the original owner if she signed an adoption contract and ask for the name of the rescue where she got the dobe from.
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