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Old 01-18-2013, 09:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation Help. It keeps getting worse.

Hey guys, I have been on this site a tonne before and you guys always have great information. But I'm really stumped on this one.

In my house we have a 2yr border collie. and my new 5mth old doberman.

When we got him at 2 months we had the typical problems, housetraining, but nothing major. Myself and my girlfriend made sure to spend a great deal of time working with him. Housetraining, 'harrassing' him while eating to teach discipline, a variety of training techniques. and he had no problems. starting going outside properly, didn't bark, and was a phenomenal pup. However this last month is when the real fun has been starting

He now will piss right infront of us, if he is outside he will go. but if inside the house he will squat in the kitchen for us to see him pee. In the yard he had "his" corner to do business in. He now shits all over the yard including the doorstep. He has entered a huge rebelious stage and its hard. In our house with the bordercollie they will fight tooth and nail until seperated or until tired. But with any other dog there is no problem whatsoever.

I know that dobermans are bar none the hardest pups to raise, but if anyone else has encountered similar problems. any advice would be great.
Thank you guys.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Help. It keeps getting worse.

Is the border collie male also? It sounds like the dobe is trying to exert dominance. It will probably only get worse as he ages. I would consult a trainer ASAP if you don't want your BC getting seriously hurt.


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Old 01-18-2013, 09:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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At 5 months I really doubt the"rebellious behavior" is due to his age. Were he 8-12 months I would be with you on that. It sounds like he needs more fun activities and bonding with you and your girlfriend and for you to then both work with him in a positive way. Honestly if you're having such a difficult time now you may consider rehoming your puppy especially if your two dogs are already fighting. It's only going to be uphill from here, so you're going to really have to want it to work and give it your all for it to work. Best luck.

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Old 01-19-2013, 12:44 AM   #4 (permalink)
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" 'harrassing' him while eating to teach discipline, a variety of training techniques. and he had no problems. starting going outside properly, didn't " This is very old school training methods frowned upon now days. Are both your dogs male ? Please read up on male on male aggression in Doberman's. I do think your pup is a bit young yet for that problem Doberman's play extremely rough when they play. They stay puppies until about 2-3 years of age they have a puppy hood also go though a teen age period which can be trying for humans. The best way to train is positive methods treats & praise, it would be helpful if you can go to a class with you pup it helps with the bonding and teaches both of you how to do obedience. The house breaking problem he may have a UTI ( Urinary Tract Infection) they are painful and it will de-rail house breaking. Do you ask him if he needs to go outside ? I bet you no longer go with him you just let him out so you have no idea if he goes or not. This will work for any age pup or dog I have used it for years.
House breaking 101 :
If you take them out on about a 6 ft leash it helps keep them focused tell them go potty ,hurry up or what ever words you want to use just use the same words each time. Stand in one spot let them go all around you till they find the spot then Praise like it is the greatest thing you ever saw. If they do not go in about 20 minutes go back in and crate them or tie them to you them go back out in about 30 minutes.pups need to go out after naps,playing, eating & drinking 1st thing in the morning last thing at night depending on the age of the pup you may need to take them out at night too. Always use a pet urine enzyme to clean up all traces of urine or feces you can use a black light to find all traces. It takes about 3-6 months of contestant training to house break a pup the more accidents they have the longer it takes. Hang a bell on the door you go out you ring it until the pup gets the idea how to ring it yes sometimes they ring it to go look at a squirrel but its a phase they go though you just have to go though it with them. Do not forget to praise each time they go to reinforce the potty training. If you are consistent you will also have a pup/dog that will go potty on command comes in handy when it rains,snow, is icy, on a trip at night . People will think you are a amazing trainer too. Good Luck with your new baby.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:28 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Help. It keeps getting worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanPoitras87 View Post
Hey guys, I have been on this site a tonne before and you guys always have great information. But I'm really stumped on this one.

In my house we have a 2yr border collie. and my new 5mth old doberman.

When we got him at 2 months we had the typical problems, housetraining, but nothing major. Myself and my girlfriend made sure to spend a great deal of time working with him. Housetraining, 'harrassing' him while eating to teach discipline, a variety of training techniques. and he had no problems. starting going outside properly, didn't bark, and was a phenomenal pup. However this last month is when the real fun has been starting

He now will piss right infront of us, if he is outside he will go. but if inside the house he will squat in the kitchen for us to see him pee. In the yard he had "his" corner to do business in. He now shits all over the yard including the doorstep. He has entered a huge rebelious stage and its hard. In our house with the bordercollie they will fight tooth and nail until seperated or until tired. But with any other dog there is no problem whatsoever.

I know that dobermans are bar none the hardest pups to raise, but if anyone else has encountered similar problems. any advice would be great.
Thank you guys.
Just a couple of observations.

How do you know the two will fight until tired?

I've had ohhhh about 10-12 dogs in my adult life, five of them Dobermans, only one has been difficult to raise.


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Old 01-19-2013, 05:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Dogs do not fight until they are tired. Dogs PLAY until they are tired.

Dogs do not eliminate inappropriately for any sort of nefarious reason... not out of rebellion, not for revenge, not for any one of the many reasons people claim as a means to shift the responsibility for the behavior on to the dog instead of where it belongs... on the person. Dogs eliminate inappropriately out of confusion... they are not as clear on the concept as people think they are. Dogs eliminate inappropriately because people do not do the things required to make sure that they can be successful. Sometimes, dogs eliminate inappropriately for medical reasons.

Your pup is not completely housebroken, yet. Instead of making him out to be at fault, do what YOU need to do! Be more alert to signs he needs to eliminate, and get him out. Go outside with him, and acknowledge and reward correct behavior. If he is eliminating in the wrong part of the yard, take him to the correct place and reward success. Notice when he has played hard and gotten a big drink... he will have to urinate soon! Do NOT punish mistakes on his part... they are mistakes on YOUR part... clean up, move on, resolve to do better yourself.

Watch following what you read. There are multitudes of training philosophies... many of them will get you from here to there, but picking bits and pieces from this and that will often result in huge confusion if there is conflict between methods. Stop harrassing your pup to instill tolerance!

Raising a Doberman puppy is a joy... or, it should be. If you approach it as a herculean task or an unpleasant task... that is what it will be, to you. If you are not having fun, there is something wrong with your relationship with your pup... and, it probably ain't his fault. Bitching about your pup's behavior is simply non-productive... rather, figure out how you can change YOUR behavior to turn things around.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanPoitras87 View Post

He now will piss right infront of us, if he is outside he will go. but if inside the house he will squat in the kitchen for us to see him pee.

Two things

1) Have you checked to see if he has a UTI - just to rule out the possibility?
Sometimes there are no other signs other than lots of peeing if its early enough in the infection. This is what happened with Angus - he had been house trained for a couple of months and then all of a sudden started he peeing everywhere in the house - no other signs to let us know it was a UTI. But sure enough, took him to the vet w/ a urine sample, and voila... UTI. We're only a couple of days into treatment, and already peeing in the house has stopped.

2) If you're 100% its not a UTI, I'd be going back to puppy basics and putting him on a leash and accompanying him out to his "spot", then praising him when he's done. If he doesn't go, and you think he'll be peeing once he gets into the house, put him into the crate for 4 minutes and then back outside with you until he pees outside. Don't give him the chance to pee in the house. If he's going to act like a 12 week old puppy, that's how you've got to treat him...
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:35 AM   #8 (permalink)
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There are some realistic suggestions about the peeing problem--I'd have had him in to see the vet about it as soon as it started--so I'd deal with that first.

And it's oh, so very true that dogs don't do things like pee in front of you just so you see him--UTI's not evil motives (that aren't really any part of canine behavior) are more likely to be the cause of all that inappropriate urination.

If you want him to poop in a particular place in your yard be prepared to keep taking to the spot for more than two or three months. But having had to deal with dogs who were trained in this fashion I'll warn you that this can backfire big time. People who have so trained their dogs like often end up with dogs who think they should never pee or poop anyplace except that one place in their yard. They often end up with a dog who they can't take on vacation or board if they need to because the dog will literally make them selves sick trying to wait to go home to go potty.

And for heavens sake there is no need to "harrass" your puppy while he's eating to teach him discipline. Give him his food and leave him alone while he eats. Dogs who actually have a problem with excess posessiveness can be taught in other ways to relinquish control of the food bowl to you if it's necessary. Dogs who guard food, toys etc are actually in the minority and many of them only guard from other dogs anyway.

Be a little more reasonable in your expectations.

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