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Old 12-26-2012, 02:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Training puppy to sit while showing in conformation?

Hi folks,
Not sure if this is the best place to post this but I was wondering if anyone can help me with a few questions about "showing" my future dobe.
I'm getting my male puppy in 7 weeks. My breeder said that if I plan on showing my dog that the way I go about training him will be different from if I was just training my pet.
For example, the command "sit" should never be taught. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? What things do I need to know going into this? I'm planning on getting a trainer to start out with so maybe they can give me some pointers but in the meantime I would greatly appreciate any information.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:00 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Hi Navid, welcome to the forum If you create a new thread, you will get a much better responce.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by navid_kanani@hotmail.com View Post
Hi folks,
Not sure if this is the best place to post this but I was wondering if anyone can help me with a few questions about "showing" my future dobe.
I'm getting my male puppy in 7 weeks. My breeder said that if I plan on showing my dog that the way I go about training him will be different from if I was just training my pet.
For example, the command "sit" should never be taught. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? What things do I need to know going into this? I'm planning on getting a trainer to start out with so maybe they can give me some pointers but in the meantime I would greatly appreciate any information.
You can teach sit, you just don't want to teach the dog to sit when you come to a stop on a heel and you want to be careful of what hand signals you use for it.

... I can't think of a single show dog I've ever met that didn't know "sit". :/
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:27 AM   #4 (permalink)
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i would talk to the breeder about finding a good trainer/handler in your area to work with you and the dog.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't get the concept of "not teaching" a dog to sit. #1 if you can teach a dog to sit, one can surely teach a dog to stand. #2 your dog is going to sit anyway.
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adara View Post
I don't get the concept of "not teaching" a dog to sit. #1 if you can teach a dog to sit, one can surely teach a dog to stand. #2 your dog is going to sit anyway.
I apologize for the brain fart. Haha

Obviously I can teach my pup to sit and stand. I just have to train it so that it doesn't sit when i don't want him to.

I'm just trying to get some info on basic conformation training because I have no experience in it and this forum is such a wonderful resource. I will do some more exploring on the site for more info.

Thanks everyone.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't get the concept of "not teaching" a dog to sit. #1 if you can teach a dog to sit, one can surely teach a dog to stand. #2 your dog is going to sit anyway.
Most obedience training today is done with positive reinforcement using food as a reward. In the show ring handlers use food, as bait, to gain the attention of the dog. Should the dog associate food with sit while the judge is doing their examination and dog decides to sit, the dog is then disqualified. Not so good of a response in the show ring. A waste of show fees, and handler fees.

I only know this as when our show bitch was a puppy I proudly took her to puppy dog school. The first thing they teach is to use the command sit and hold food over and behind the dogs head so that they look up at the food and then naturally sit. When I showed my breeder this neat new trick she nearly took my head off. We had to then teach my puppy not to sit for food.....She, the puppy, is now a Champion and will sit on command without food, with a clenched fist, as a hand signal. She seems to know the difference when she is strutting her stuff in the conformation ring when she was completing her Championship, and now working on her Grand Champion designation........Silly me, a lesson well learned.......Hope this helps.

Last edited by saw1212; 12-26-2012 at 05:42 PM..
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:54 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I didn't know a dog can be disqualified for sitting during the examination over in the US? It's not desirable over here in the UK, but you wouldn't get chucked out for it. In Europe, they ask you to sit your dog for teeth.

Anyway, I've always been told to teach sit after you teach stand, and ask for lots of stands for treats rather than doing 'sit' all the time like pet owners generally do. Also when you use different collars and leads for different activities, they get to know what kind of behaviour you expect when wearing that equipment.

Ring craft classes can be so helpful
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
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To start don't let him sit with his show collar on. The show collar is really thin and always kept up tauntly under their chin. Obedience collar is loose hanging resting on their shoulders. They learn the difference fairly easily. My puppy has known sit since she was 9 weeks old, never once had been stacked until handling class until last week. She didn't sit once, but I never told her sit. :p

One of my pet peeves is dogs having no manners because "they're a show dog." They still need to know sit, come, not to jump, etc.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:31 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Most obedience training today is done with positive reinforcement using food as a reward. In the show ring handlers use food, as bait, to gain the attention of the dog. Should the dog associate food with sit while the judge is doing their examination and dog decides to sit, the dog is then disqualified. Not so good of a response in the show ring. A waste of show fees, and handler fees.

.
Um, your dog is not disqualified for sitting. Who told you that?? I took a 4 point major in the Vizsla ring with a puppy from the 6-9 class. How well behaved do you think he was?

My Vizsla is in the top 20. He knows how to sit. His first command was to sit. If one can teach sit, WHY can't one teach stand? I don't get that concept. Sorry if i wasn't clear.

I'm pretty stubborn and obstinate and if my breeder said I couldn't teach sit, I'd ask why and want to know why they weren't capable of teaching stand. NONE of my handlers have had an issue with my dogs knowing how to sit, including Dobe handlers.

I've know had 4 Vizslas do/going to do conformation and 3 Dobes. Every single one was taught sit first as their first command with food. Same kind of food for conformation. I then taught them stand. And all a handler has to do is step into a dog who is sititing and VOILA the dog stands up!
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I didn't know a dog can be disqualified for sitting during the examination over in the US? It's not desirable over here in the UK, but you wouldn't get chucked out for it. In Europe, they ask you to sit your dog for teeth.

You do not get disqualified if your dog sits. If your dog freaks out and can't be examined, you might This person is misinformed or miscommunicated.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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From my first show Dobe (born in 1959) to my most recent Champion (who is now 7 and has titles in Obedience, Rally and Agility) I teach them all to sit, stand and down--and STAY in those positions as soon as they come home the first time.

But the default command is always "Stand"--that's what they do if I don't give any other command. I teach Novice and Open obedience exercises to the dogs while they are showing in Conformation but I teach heeling with no automatic sit. It takes about a week of adding that to their skills in Obedience after they become champions to learn it well enough to compete in Obedience.

I've also had dogs who simply learned that a show collar meant you didn't sit and an Obedience collar mean you did. More than one of my Champion Dobes have also had Novice titles in Rally and Obedience before they finished in the conformation ring.

They are certainly plenty smart enough to figure it out.

I just don't make a point of telling their breeder/handler exactly what training they have--she learned on the first dog she showed for me that he knew the "stand" command and has assumed that all of the rest of them do too.

Seems to work fine for her and them.

Oh yeah, and if I take them to classes I just tell the trainer that the dog is not going to learn or do an automatic sit while heeling. I've only had one trainer who said if I didnt want to train the dog her way that I shouldn't take the class (we didn't) but it's not been a problem with any of the other trainers.

Last edited by dobebug; 12-27-2012 at 03:43 PM..
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Like others who have posted, I also taught my conformation dog to sit. But she equally know stand. I probably work both equally and teaching stand/stay as a puppy was major emphasis. I never, ever let her sit with her show collar on and there is a very clear distinction in expectations based on what collar she is wearing. She is still showing in breed ring and also has obedience and rally titles. We literally ran from the breed ring to compete in OB and rally without problem. I do teach an auto sit when heeling but can understand why some don't. I have a new show/performance puppy (Aussie this time not Dobe) and am training her the same way...
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Both of mine are actively showing in conformation and are obedience trained including the automatic sit. Both will begin competing in Obedience in 2013.

It is really very simple. I do no obedience work with the show collar/lead. I do not give obedience commands in the show ring. Commands for the show ring are "show dog", "stand", "stay", "step", "back", "lets go", and "head". I have never had a dog sit in the show ring unless told to.

My dog's do not move around the ring in the heel position and they don't pull. They will use a much lead as the handler gives them and keep pace with the handler.

No reason not to teach your dog the automatic sit. When training for show, when you stop, simply say "stand", and use a different collar/lead for show and obedience.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Welcome to the forum, most breeders encourage the owners never to teach their dog to sit for fear they believe it can be a permanent habit in the ring. Well dobes are pretty smart and they can distinguish simple things, Kratos went to puppy kindergarden before he went to handling class and never once did he sit. Kratos knows the difference between his regular/ obedience collar and a show lead. He never sits in the ring when I place that lead on him he knows what to do. So I guess just dot teach him to sit while on a show lead and when correcting in a show dont pull up on the lead too hard and your pup shouldnt have a issue with sitting in the ring.


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