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Old 12-07-2012, 09:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Training "Shake"?

Nondobe training question.

Titan is a fantastic dog and is usually super fun to train with. He gets nearly everything I teach him very quickly and he's quite responsive and waits for my signal to release the behavior. Teaching him not to doordash, for instance, only took a few tries of sitstay + door doesn't open unless your butt is on the floor, and he maintains this behavior reliably now.

I do have some problems teaching him things that his owner, for better or for worse, whether intentionally or not, is teaching him the opposite of. Trying to get him not to jump is a struggle because she still rewards him for jumping onto her even though she complains about it and asks why I haven't taught him not to do that yet. Of course, he doesn't jump on ME

This is the summary of what usually happens when I try to get him to shake. I used to pick up his foot manually, but we've progressed slightly farther than that.

Me: Titan, shake.
Titan: ...
Titan: ...
Titan: ...
Titan: ...
Titan: ...
Titan: ...
Titan: ...
Titan: ...
Titan: ...foot?

And he doesn't offer it, he just slightly lifts it off the ground like he does when he wants to be released from a sitstay, so I can't tell if he's stressed because he's confused and doesn't know what I want, or if he has to seriously puzzle through the idea that I want his foot. I do reward him for at least lifting his foot and I hold it and repeat shake and reward before trying again.

Am I going about this the wrong way? Would there be any specific reason he would be adverse to giving me his foot? Or is it perhaps a case of his owner inadvertently telling him that shake is a bad thing? We've been working on this since the summer and he is just not progressing past that.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Have you tried luring him with a treat? What me trainer does is have the dog in a sit, and show him a treat. Hold it just above nose level, and let the dog try to reach for it, but close your hand over it, so they can't get to it. After a few tries to get the treat, the dog will usually try to paw the treat out of your hand. When that happens, click (or otherwise mark), and give the treat. Repeat a few more times, until the dog is consistantly touching your hand to get the treat, then start pairing the cue word to the action.

If he really just won't touch your hand, go back and mark for any upward movement of his foot. Eventually, you can work that into shake, high five, wave, etc.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'd stopped using treats when I discovered he was going "meh" at them, even tasty things like pieces of meat and cheese. He gets significantly more excited about praise and petting than any food I've thrown at him. He's also ridiculously fat because his owner freefeeds him IAMS. He's got zip interest in food, even when offered he'll take it but most likely he'll spit it right out. Even hot dogs! He has nonexistent prey and ball drive too, go figure. This dog feeds off of attention.

He won't touch my hand for anything, nor will he offer his feet for anything. It's a struggle to get him still enough for nail trimming and he cries during.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If it's a struggle for nail trims, is he opposed to getting his feet handled? First I'd make sure he was ok with that.

I've only taught 2 of my dogs to shake and I shaped them with a clicker. They both offered a slight lift of the paw when they sat though. As soon as they did it, I clicked and gave a treat. They soon learned that it meant they got food and I'd up the criteria and what until they lifted it higher. I can't tell how often you are saying shake

I don't repeat commands over and over. And I don't "name" them until the dog is doing the command. Shake shake shake shake might mean to him oh I do it the 4th time, etc. rather than the first time.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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training "shake"? My answer is don't do it

Honestly, it is the only thing I have taught any dog that I slightly regret!
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Here are some quick videos on shaping Shake. Envy has NEVER done any shaping training so she's a bit slow to offer responses


shake 1 - YouTube

Here I move to get her to put her foot back down so we can start again
shake 2 - YouTube


She is starting to get it here.
shake3 - YouTube
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Your dog will appreciate treats more being hungry! He will eventually be hungry enough and will not deny the food.

I used the method that rosemary pointed out.
Closed my hand over the treat and waited for her to paw at my hand, in which I marked the behaviour with the clicker and gave her the treat.

This lead to A LOT of pawing at me, so you'll want to associate a word to it soon after so he does it on command only.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmit View Post
training "shake"? My answer is don't do it

Honestly, it is the only thing I have taught any dog that I slightly regret!
The other ones are turning lights on/off or close a door (to teach them they control the noise). High 5 and shake are evil. I now get the kitchen doors closed on me when I am putting stuff away. Of course the trick is to close the door as hard as you can so it makes a really loud noise.
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