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Old 11-26-2012, 07:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Prong Collar

ok, I know this has been discussed almost to death, but I am terrible with search features

I have decided to try a prong collar on my dobe and on my gsp, for totally separate reasons, she is not quite leash aggressive but acts like a fool sometimes , sometimes acts aggressive and sometimes does nothing and ignores the other dogs , he is a bad bad puller

what are the best articles or videos on how to fit a prong collar, some of the info is so conflicting

also what brand/ style do you think is best and why?

thank you so much for indulging my questions

Kat
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Leerburg Dog Training | How to Fit a Prong Collar
As for brand, I prefer Herm Sprenger
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Before going for the prong collar, why not trying the gentle leader (face leash).

This was disccused in this forum
face leash, dog - Bing Images.

After tried w/ several brand, I use Master Control brand (made in Germany), size:4, cost me US$17 here. Material is strong but soft, also has the safety lock.
I put it on her for 4 days (24H) to get her used for it, before start walking her outside.
Then only put it on whenever we walk outside. She'll sit,giving her face, whenever I bring the gentle leader.

Tips:
- change direction and walking without patron until she follows
- always STOP and refuse to move whenever she pulled
- only cont the walk after she calms (breath normally, not in hunting mode) by simply walking without any voice/tap command (let her learn to pay full attention)
- always drain her energy with jogging after the walk (I learned that the build up energy stressed out my dobbi and make her hard to be controlled on the next walk)

It only took me 2 weeks to get my dobbi walking and jogging in heel position with it. No more pulling (she is 38 kilos).

And it's been awhile I can cycling safely with her running in full speed or jog on-leash (plain collar) without pulling.

Still cont to use it on our walk to control her from chasing a cat.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I use an easy walk harness- best thing ever! less neck pulling and it corrects behavior without pinching. Althought, Rou keeps growing out his, if fitted to an adult things may get better. But be warned- they know when it is off and when it is not
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I used a gentle leader harness for several months while Duke was a small pup. Maybe it's human error, but I wasn't able to correct mistakes, only to hinder him from using his full strength to pull me forward.

However, when I have inexperienced family members that volunteer to walk him, I put the harness on and not the prong collar.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Agree, Instant Noodle, Gentle leaders don't provide any corrections. They do make it easier for the owner to control a dog- where the head goes, the rest of the body has to follow. It's sort of like using a halter on a horse. They're real good for folks who don't know how to use a prong collar properly and who need a gentle, easy way to keep a dog from towing them down the street. Use those head collars with caution also. On longer necked breeds, and breeds prone to spinal issues (like Wobblers in our Dobermans), Gentle Leaders can be risky because you are pulling the dog's head and neck out of alignment. If you try to correct the dog with a sharp yank or jerk on a head collar, you could injure the dog's neck. And yeah, that's not how they're supposed to be used, but I see people walking their dogs here all the time, jerking away at a head collar and pulling the dog's head up and to the side sharply.

I'm more of a fan of prong collars than gentle leaders for actually training a dog, to be honest. I use it as a tool to get the dog trained, and then go to a greyhound style martingale collar (both my Dobes know/knew how to pull backwards out of a buckle collar) once they're walking nicely on lead. I did try a no-pull harness with Griffin after I found out he has wobblers, but those things put pressure on the dog's shoulders and torque the body to the side. It made him lose his balance and trip, so we're just using a regular harness. I'm guessing they probably work for a dog with no balance problems, but again, I don't see where you're actually teaching the dog to not pull. Like the gentle leaders, the no-pull harnesses seem to just take away the dog's ability to pull.

The Leerburg article is a good one, although I don't tend to fit my prong collars up quite as high as they do on the dog's neck. That was too harsh of a correction for most of my dogs. And I've had Herm Springers too, solid quality and they last forever.

Last edited by River; 11-27-2012 at 09:58 AM..
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:30 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I used an ez-walk or whatever it was called chest harness. It's a harness you fit to the dog and then the leash attaches to a d-ring in the middle of the chest. It worked alright.

I do not like the head harnesses (gentle leader, halti, etc)! First, I've only ever seen ONE dog who looked truly comfortable in one. But mostly, it's hard on the dog's necks. This breed is prone to spinal issues and a dog who is pulling forward and getting yanked back by his head is going to suffer some. Just a thought.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:04 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I do prefer harnesses but I would NOT use a harness on a possibly reactive dog. I don't think you have enough head control. I'd use the GL or prong if the head collars worried me. I'd also get a good trainer to show me how to desensitize the dog to whatever is making the dog possibly reactive
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:07 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I think it should be considered that torquing of the C1 is common in dogs who wear Gentle Leaders or head haltis of some sort. And Dobermans are prone to Wobblers. I personally won't put a head halti on any Dobe of mine. Why increase risk of damage to the neck when we don't *know* for certain the causes of Wobblers?

Anyhoo, I'd recommend talking with a trainer if you can about use of a prong. A lot of people just stick the collar on their dogs and they have no idea how to use it effectively.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burbank View Post
ok, I know this has been discussed almost to death, but I am terrible with search features

I have decided to try a prong collar on my dobe and on my gsp, for totally separate reasons, she is not quite leash aggressive but acts like a fool sometimes , sometimes acts aggressive and sometimes does nothing and ignores the other dogs , he is a bad bad puller

what are the best articles or videos on how to fit a prong collar, some of the info is so conflicting

also what brand/ style do you think is best and why?

thank you so much for indulging my questions

Kat
Why don't you train loose leash walking and work on behavior modification? That way you aren't relying on any sort of crutch, whether it be a prong or head halter. There is plenty of information on these topics on the Internet.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
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If used correctly, a prong can be very effective. There are just a lot of people who use them incorrectly. I still use one if I feel like I need more control in public settings. Its easier on the neck than a choke.

I would never use a head harness because of the problems Dobermans can have with their necks and Wobblers. I tried an easy-walk harness but it doesn't work great and I didn't feel like I had as much control as I wanted in public settings.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Why don't you train loose leash walking and work on behavior modification? That way you aren't relying on any sort of crutch, whether it be a prong or head halter. There is plenty of information on these topics on the Internet.
prongs are effective training tools if used correctly, though.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Also make sure you use a back up method incase the prong collar comes off. Esp with a reactive dog.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:43 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Just be aware that a prong collar can make reactivity or leash aggression worse. Perhaps a trainer to work with you instead? I recommend people find trainers here: Search for Professionals
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:48 PM   #15 (permalink)
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a few things, I do plan on using a back up collar with the prongs, I have seen first hand what can happen when they get out (ever see a great dane running for joy in a public library?)

While I do not have prong collar experience I do have a very good understanding of less is more and very use to using a chain over the nose with a horse for either bad behavior or letting it be neutral if not needed and no nagging, and for those that need very little using two leads so it can be totally neutral till needed, I know the tools are not the same but I feel a good bit of the theory is

and I hope the end result will be to be able to use just a standard martingale collar with some verbal correction and positive praise for ignoring the other dogs

both dogs do have some experience in the "choke" collar properly adjusted but I feel that they do not release fast enough for my liking, and they both know how to walk on a lead with slack, till "something really cool" distracts them

we are doing some clicker training with Remy, but Kahlua is terrified of the clicker so we will need to work on that but she has responded well while walking to be told to come on with a short lead and walking away and being praised when leaving in a calm manner

she has also responded well (and I may get some flack for this) but being reeled in and given a small tap on the rump and a verbal correction, she gets kinda of a well dang look and sulks away from the distraction, so I am hoping that the collar will help her correct herself

and lastly, she has been in a flat collar with a buckle and has learned how to suck back (her standard mo) and has slipped it twice, we need a change

so does anyone know where to get a martingale collar that can be adjusted by a buckle and not the more common slide? Remy has managed to unbuckle her collar and will loosen the slide far to easily in play

so sorry for the novel
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:24 AM   #16 (permalink)
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prongs are effective training tools if used correctly, though.
I am aware of that, however it's still a crutch in my opinion. You don't need a prong to train effectively, plus if you are still using one every walk how has it been an effective training tool? I prefer to train loose leash walking w/o a prong and would never use one for reactivity.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:07 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Just be aware that a prong collar can make reactivity or leash aggression worse. Perhaps a trainer to work with you instead? I recommend people find trainers here: Search for Professionals
Completely agree, I used a prong on my oldest girl Ellie a few years back who is reactive around other dogs. It worked like magic at stopping her pulling but greatly increased her reactivity. I think as others have said its a great tool if used correctly and on the right dog.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:43 AM   #18 (permalink)
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My absolute favorite martingale/limited slip collars are from Andrea at Dogs Art (dogs-art Home). Shanoa slipped her collar on me once so I ordered a custom limited slip from Andrea and it's never happened again. They are super high quality - leather, with a ribbon front (you can choose from her ribbons or she will do custom for you if you want to mail her a ribbon). Not expensive, either. I love my collars from Andrea.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:08 AM   #19 (permalink)
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For Kahlua, try using a word if the sound of the click terrifies her. Or you can use a ballpoint pen that clicks. It's a softer sound. I use the word yes for my marker word.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:35 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I like to switch it up.
Sometimes I walk Lexi with her flat collar on a long retractable leash, sometimes with the prong collar on a 5 foot leash.

If I'm in a more public area she gets the prong. I do have issues with her shaking it lower down her neck, so I am always adjusting it back to the right spot.

I used a gentle leader for a brief period but I didn't like how it twisted her neck if she wasn't paying attention and hit the end of the leash. I also didn't like how she was always rubbing her face on or between my legs!
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:01 AM   #21 (permalink)
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If you are still searching for a prong, check out EliteK9.com. Hope this helps.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
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just a small update

she has been doing pretty well on the prong collar, we bought a herm sprenger for both of them

it doesn't stop her from acting a fool, but it does keep her from a full blow up because she gets a correction that breaks her silliness, she can't suck back out of it and when I tell her to "come on" she does,

for the dogs that she is just silly about, she almost ignores them now and will come on and leave them

for those that she is more aggressive to she will jump up and down in place, bite at the leash but will come on when told, and may turn back to look at them but will keep walking and not lunge at them

she and Remy went with us to family for Christmas and there were 2 other dogs, she did really well outside and in meeting the new dogs, no lunging and attacking during the meet and greet outside, but she did resort to her personal space issues inside and snapped at the other dogs a few times while laying down

her behavior there vs home almost makes me wonder if she is more territorial than true reactive, or maybe a bit of both
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:11 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Prongs should not be used to give a correction you do not use a prong like a choke chain prongs are self correcting the dog gives it self a correction. Example: Out walking a dog dog sees another dog starts to pull you do an about turn dog not paying attention to you dog gets a correction because he/she is not paying attention to its owner. Owner has not done anything but go a different direction dog should learn really quick if he/she does not want pinched better pay attention to mom or dad. Always have a back up collar on when using a prong I use a light nylon choke type collar just for back up in case the prong opens.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:27 PM   #24 (permalink)
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they have a lovely bright pink nylon choke as their back-up
maybe correction was a bad word, more of a well crap lunging at the other dog was mighty uncomfortable maybe I just want to stand here instead
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