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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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Submissive peeing?!?

My 6 month old female Dobe will pee on the floor when you call her over to you. We've been working with her on this (getting down to her level, petting her, soft voices) but nothing seems to be working. I know that she does this to appease me (she's showing me that she looks at me as the dominant one) but I'm wondering if anyone has any tips on how to get her to stop? Will she eventually grow out of this? We got her when she was 7 weeks old from a good reputable breeder. She's had regular vet visits, up to date on all vaccines and no Health problems. Submissive peeing?!?-imageuploadedbypg-free1353711493.710149.jpg


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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 07:43 PM
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Some dogs "just do it" - you can work on things like changing the routine when she does it. Do any of the dogs in her line do it? Most dogs tend to grow out of it. But a few don't. Bithces britches can help keep the floor dry if that's an issue but it won't "fix" the issue.

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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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I honestly have contacted the breeder about it as its not a huge issue, she's gotten better with it. I was just curious.


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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 08:13 PM
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Just a thought, don't call her...no talking.
Walk up and clip on a leash, and head outside without before you thak to her.
- our pup did this for 2 weeks, so we never spoke or let her feet touch the floor, coming off our sons bed, in the morning...soon the excitment, became normal and inside pee eliminated

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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 09:21 PM
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I got a phone call from my boy's breeder when he was in the air flying to me... "Oh! By the way, don't look at him or talk to him when you get up in the morning... just get outside!" He peed all down my nightgown the next morning LOL! He had a pretty severe issue with submissive urination that was being made much more severe by a minor urinary tract infection. It didn't occur to me to have him tested for a UTI because I assumed all the issues I was seeing were due to the submissive dealie. Once he was diagnosed and treated for the UTI, the other issue became much more manageble and he eventually grew out of it altogether. Just a thought...
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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I've had her tested for uti and tests all came back normal. My vet is the one who told me it was submissive peeing and that we should try all that I said in the first posting.


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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaumont67 View Post
Just a thought, don't call her...no talking.
Walk up and clip on a leash, and head outside without before you thak to her.
- our pup did this for 2 weeks, so we never spoke or let her feet touch the floor, coming off our sons bed, in the morning...soon the excitment, became normal and inside pee eliminated
It's not accidents.... She is crate trained and fully potty trained. First thing in the morning she is let out and goes potty outdoors.when she is indoors with our family She will stand by the door and paw at it to let us know she needs to go potty or when she just wants out. She pees when you call her to play or to pet her its called submissive peeing not potty accidents.


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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 12:01 AM
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I have had that problem with Patches my Dachshund she is 6 years old still does it when she gets excited.Its best to ignore them do not think it has much to do with dominance,or submission.I would not talk to her,or pet her might encourage it.Good Luck
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 12:23 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Patches Mom View Post
I have had that problem with Patches my Dachshund she is 6 years old still does it when she gets excited.Its best to ignore them do not think it has much to do with dominance,or submission.I would not talk to her,or pet her might encourage it.Good Luck
I guess I'm not being very clear. The peeing has nothing to do with potty training or being excited, she doesn't do it when other people come into our house and she doesn't do it when we walk into our house or leave, she only does it when my husband and I call her over to us to scold her or sometimes when we want to pet her. It is a submissive thing as my vet has seen it and told us why she was doing it. She does it to appease us to show us that she knows we are the dominates in "our pack" it's like what wolves do to show their submissiveness to higher up leaders in the pack.
We have ignored it and also tried what our vet told us and she still does it.... Not as much as she use to but she still does it. Just thought I'd ask to see if there was anything else we could try.


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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubyRed12 View Post
I guess I'm not being very clear. The peeing has nothing to do with potty training or being excited, she doesn't do it when other people come into our house and she doesn't do it when we walk into our house or leave, she only does it when my husband and I call her over to us to scold her or sometimes when we want to pet her. It is a submissive thing as my vet has seen it and told us why she was doing it. She does it to appease us to show us that she knows we are the dominates in "our pack" it's like what wolves do to show their submissiveness to higher up leaders in the pack.
We have ignored it and also tried what our vet told us and she still does it.... Not as much as she use to but she still does it. Just thought I'd ask to see if there was anything else we could try.


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Have you tried NOT CALLING HER TO YOU IN ORDER TO SCOLD HER????????????
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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Have you tried NOT CALLING HER TO YOU IN ORDER TO SCOLD HER????????????
How would I scold her than?????? She will never learn that certain behavior is not acceptable if I didn't scold her. All we have to do is call her by her full name "ruby red" and she knows she's done something wrong and begins peeing. Again a submissive behavior.


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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 12:38 AM
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Now correct me if I'm wrong but if you are calling her to you and when she comes to you. THEN you scold her. I would think there is a good chance she is associating coming to you as something bad. She might think you are scolding her for coming to you. That could be very confusing for a pup.
It sounds like you might need to work on her confidence levels. A trainer (to train you) would be a great idea. Or even a book is a good place to start. We went the trainer route but I'm sure others have great book recommendations. Our boy is very sensitive and having a trainer can be such a godsend.
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
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Now correct me if I'm wrong but if you are calling her to you and when she comes to you. THEN you scold her. I would think there is a good chance she is associating coming to you as something bad. She might think you are scolding her for coming to you. That could be very confusing for a pup.
It sounds like you might need to work on her confidence levels. A trainer (to train you) would be a great idea. Or even a book is a good place to start. We went the trainer route but I'm sure others have great book recommendations. Our boy is very sensitive and having a trainer can be such a godsend.
Thank you. You know I never thought about her associating it that way. But what I don't get is when we call her by just "ruby" she's fine but when we use "ruby red" she does it. I will look into a trainer.


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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubyRed12 View Post
Thank you. You know I never thought about her associating it that way. But what I don't get is when we call her by just "ruby" she's fine but when we use "ruby red" she does it. I will look into a trainer.


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She might associate that full name with her being in trouble. When my mom used my full named to call me out of my room as a teenager I knew I had done something wrong! (also, my mom had a certain tone of voice that would stop me dead in my tracks.) It could be as simple as that.

There are a lot of great threads on here with training methods and how to find a trainer who uses those methods. Not everything works for every dog or every human but you'll find one that will. I promise. Plus, it's totally worth it.
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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 01:10 AM
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Even if it does not seem to you that your tone is overly harsh or threatening, it is. You have a very soft puppy, and the amount of negative in your voice is excessive for her.

With a pup this age, I do not want to scold for misbehavior, I want to supervise well enough that I see the idea of the misbehavior before it happens, and give a little "Ah! Ah!" telling the pup to not even go there. A very light voice is all that you need.

I tell my students in class to not call their pups for ANYTHING that is not the best thing, ever, for pups. To obey a come command should guarantee that good things are gonna happen. What you are doing is pretty much guaranteed to teach her that coming is a bad thing... and, she will (sensibly and reasonably!) quit coming. If you MUST scold her (and, this particular pup I probably would not), you go to her to scold her... and, again, a very light voice and very brief.

I would quit calling her at all except to play and give her a treat and do wonderful things. I would quit using her full name. She is telling you the only way she can that she is scared of you... she is asking the only way that she can for you to please not be harsh or angry with her. Pay more attention to what she is saying!

You have a particularly soft and sensitive puppy. My first Doberman was like this, and they require very thoughtful and careful raising. It is very easy to ruin a pup like this.
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 01:24 AM
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Great advice above.. Pick a new way of handling things (new saying, ah ah vs calling her name) and use a softer tone. If she's done something wrong just get up and stop it and redirect her attention. Normally submissive peeing goes away with age as hard as it is, ignore it, don't stare down your pup and don't be loud or aggressive. All positive confident building interaction.


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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 01:30 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks ill try it


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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-24-2012, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
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How would I scold her than?????? She will never learn that certain behavior is not acceptable if I didn't scold her. All we have to do is call her by her full name "ruby red" and she knows she's done something wrong and begins peeing. Again a submissive behavior.


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Additionally, I tell folks in class to try to NOT use a dog's name for anything negative at all... I use the dog's name as an attention command, so that when I say "Fluffy!" (brightly, and in a friendly tone) what I want is for Fluffy to immediately look at me with a "Yes, Boss!" expression. I precede any command with the dog's name, and I do not want to attach bad ju-ju to commands...
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-30-2012, 10:01 AM
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You are truly blessed with a sensitive pup where a slight tone change is all thats needed for a correction. McTag is right, the upbringing is touchy and actions need to be well thought in advance but the final outcome is beautiful. You have a dog that will respond to a look or touch if trained properly. I had a female like that and life with her was so good!

Now I have a hard headed male, that with a 2 x 4 you might get his attention.

good luck you lucky devil
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-30-2012, 10:47 AM
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You should nver call a dog to you to scold them. Then they can't trust you hence you are aggravating the problem by enforcing the very thing you want to correct.

With puppies it is very important to keep everything positive. So every time you call her if she has good food motivation reward her not scold her. Why would hse want to come to someone who going to scold her. Keep everything postive with her and build her confidence. If she pees - she pees - just praise her for coming and then clean it up. You show your dispelasure and so she has to pee and submit because she feels threatened. Hope that makes sense. Build a positive bond.

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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-30-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubyRed12 View Post
I guess I'm not being very clear. The peeing has nothing to do with potty training or being excited, she doesn't do it when other people come into our house and she doesn't do it when we walk into our house or leave, she only does it when my husband and I call her over to us to scold her or sometimes when we want to pet her. It is a submissive thing as my vet has seen it and told us why she was doing it. She does it to appease us to show us that she knows we are the dominates in "our pack" it's like what wolves do to show their submissiveness to higher up leaders in the pack.
We have ignored it and also tried what our vet told us and she still does it.... Not as much as she use to but she still does it. Just thought I'd ask to see if there was anything else we could try.


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To the part I bolded, dogs are not wolves. That whole "alpha" or "pack" mentality is old school and no longer considered scientifically accurate. Like others have said, she is peeing because she is anticipating being scolded and is unsure as to why.
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-30-2012, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaumont67 View Post
Just a thought, don't call her...no talking.
Walk up and clip on a leash, and head outside without before you thak to her.
- our pup did this for 2 weeks, so we never spoke or let her feet touch the floor, coming off our sons bed, in the morning...soon the excitment, became normal and inside pee eliminated
I would like to add to this not to look directly at her. Also walk casually over give her small treat and walk away. Eventually walk part way and as she approaches give the treat until eventually say her name and give treat. Slowly increase the demands while still not looking directly at her. Less getting down and reassuring and more casual ignoring. Unfortunately making a fuss of any sort and patting and reassuring tells her she is doing the right thing. Less attention at the time it usually happens should help her relax.
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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-30-2012, 03:05 PM
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my male did this for a few weeks it soon stopped!
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Try getting and applying "The Power of Positive Dog Training" by Pat Miller. It is a really good book. The Power of Positive Dog Training: Pat Miller, Jean Donaldson: 9780764536090: Amazon.com: Books

Also, "On Talking Terms With Dogs: Calming Signals" by Turid Rugass, will help you understand what your dog is trying to communicate to you. On Talking Terms With Dogs: Calming Signals: Turid Rugaas: 9781929242368: Amazon.com: Books

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