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Two Parter

4K views 34 replies 10 participants last post by  Beaumont67 
#1 ·
So I have a two part question in need of some tips.

Part 1: I need suggestions on places to take Jack (8 months) where he could run. We're still working on heel and recall, as he can still be a stubborn puppy. In no way do we want him off leash yet. I don't know how I feel about dog parks, and I know tennis courts are a bad idea. He can be slightly reactive, not aggressive, just wants to run to every other dog to say hi and play. So if he sees a dog, he's running. Any one have suggestions? I have a 50 foot make shift lead that I use, but don't feel that's very sufficient. I was brainstorming, outdoor basketball courts? Something preferably gated. Thanks.

Part two: Does anyone's dobe ever force themselves to stay awake, when you know they're tired and in need of a nap? Jack will lay down or put his head on our laps for scratches, start to fall asleep and then get up to continue to play. It can be after playing and training in the yard, 3 long walks, and more training in the house, he'll still force himself to stay awake. Like an infant. After so long we'll put him in his crate, and he's sound asleep in seconds. Any ways to get him to understand that he can nap in his bed, on the couch with us, etc.?

Thanks in advance for tips and advice. And here's a pic of our handsome boy at 8 months and 76 lbs.




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#2 ·
My goodness he's huge! My boy is 11 months and he just hit 70 lbs! Oh and he is super handsome!

An awesome place to go for a gated play area is a baseball field. Nothing but grass and dirt for lower impact exercise on those joints! It would also be a good place to work on recall using that long lead you've crafted.

As far as part 2, my boy does the exact same thing! He'll play til he's ready to collapse, then jump on the couch and start to fall asleep. Then he'll stop himself and start whining for attention and if he doesn't get any he tries to get up and bark to initiate playtime again. The problem is if I give him attention he won't fall asleep, so what I do is just get up and do something, anything besides pay attention to him. If he sees I'm busy he'll just chill on the couch and fall asleep, then I come join him for some cuddles. :grin2:
 
#3 ·
Yes he is a big boy. Vet is anticipating 100+. [emoji15] those are great ideas! Although I'm not sure if there's any fully gated baseball diamonds in my area. I will definitely attempt the no attention when he's tired. Although he usually just follows me around. Definition of Velcro this guy is. Thanks for the ideas. All others are welcome!


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#4 ·
First off, he is SO cute... so sweet looking! Love him! That being said, I know exactly what you are going through. Do you have any sports parks nearby? I will take the dogs to the football fields to run around, they're fenced in and plenty of room. Occasionally you will see other people with dogs out there, but not near the frequency of a dog park and there are multiple fields so if one is occupied you can just go to another.

Young boys. Gotta love em! Mine is also the typical Velcro type, if I move no matter if he is dead asleep or how insignificant of a distance I am walking, he is awake and right there with me. Then once he is awake, guess what? He thinks it's play time of course! It makes me very reluctant at times to get out of bed for any reason hehe. I've found in these instances bones are my (our) best friend, as he is normally content to lay down and chew on his bone til he passes out. However sometimes he will be very generous and decide to share his bone with me by plopping it in my face, at which point I have to pretend to gnaw on it and give it back. A certain level of ignorance is needed because the more I participate the more he continues!

I also have a bigger boy, I haven't weighed him recently but he is at least 90 lbs at 14 months, and I've heard these dogs don't stop growing til they are around 3. Love him!
 
#6 ·
Following this thread, since I have the same issue with my big guy.
Those of you who use baseball diamonds... have you ever gotten in trouble for have your dog in there? There is an elementary school at the top of my street with a full enclosed baseball diamond and walking track that I would love to play chuck it in, but I'm worried someone would call the cops on me or something.
 
#8 ·
Hey Atomic..... it is the dog pee and poop that they are worried about. Even if you clean up after your pup, residual nasty stuff is left behind. Picture your kid sliding after a soccer ball through a spot where a dog had defecated a few hours ago. Dogs also destroy the turf when the field is either muddy or overly dry.

On the "dog safety" side, most sports fields are heavily fertilized during the season. I don't know about your dogs, but mine truly think that they are ruminants and that grass is a necessary food group LOL. Ingested fertilizer can pose serious health issues.

John
Portland OR
 
#9 · (Edited)
Does he have a long down stay, or go to place command?

My teacher threw us into the deep end right away with the long casual stay--no working our way up to it bit by bit. Kip was about 11 months but really had only had backyard training; he knew the moves but for the stay it was just a matter of me saying “stay", walking away a short distance, waiting a minute or so and going right back to release him.

Her method? She said to put him in a down stay right beside me, maybe while I was eating dinner, and make sure he stayed down--for 30 minutes by the clock! Step on the leash, put him back down immediately EVERY time he tried to get up, whatever I had to do to enforce the down stay. Train him that way maybe once a day or so.

I was a little bit “I don’t know about that, sounds extreme” but I tried it. It didn’t seem to really stress Kip (after the first day or two.) And he had that long stay down within a few days (of course I think he’s brilliant.)

The point of this looong story is that he relaxed enough that he wasn’t just staring at me waiting for a release signal. He just sacked out and did whatever (put his head down, licked himself, etc); so long as he stayed put in a down position that was fine. (Of course, if you’re going to do obedience competition training with him, you might want to use a different signal or command with him for the official "don’t move stay" that requires absolute freeze with attention to the owner, so he wouldn’t do too much extraneous moving around, I suppose.)

Anyway--the REAL point is that---maybe “perhaps" if he has learned a long stay to that degree, he’ll give up and go to sleep like you want him to instead of forcing himself to stay up. I *think* he’s old to get it, or you might want to wait a month or two. It’s nice to have that kind of stay too--if you’re out walking and want stop and talk to someone, or if you have to stand in a line for a while at the cashier register, for example.
 
#10 ·
That is true john, not that it takes a genius LOL but I have no kids and didn't think about it. You mean not everywhere revolves around the dogs? Pah! :grin2:

If your dog is an avid grazer like mine the fertilizer is another thing to consider as mentioned, though when I take mine to the field they are too preoccupied with running around to bother with the grass. And they seem more attracted to the long spindly blades as opposed to the short manicured ones.

Good idea melbrod, I think I might try that with mine. Though he already is pretty astute as far as laying down next to me while I'm eating!
 
#11 ·
One trick I used to use with my reactive dog was to use a dog park after dark (still do this sometimes). I'd put a reflective vest and light up collar on her, get a high powered flashlight for myself, and wait until SUPER dark, then go. Dog park would be empty, and we would use it as our solo park. Obviously a bit of risk, but everything is. Worked for us.

In terms of your dog not settling, he sounds like the type of dog who doesn't know how to self settle, and needs how to learn. I would personally do a modified version of the "sit on the dog" exercise. The way I do it is to leash up the dog so he has enough leash to comfortably lie down and not go very far. I often put down a dog bed or mat. You want him to not be able to slip out of the collar/leash. He should have enough leash to be able to put his head down and rest, but not wander. Then you simply sit down on the leash, pick up a book, laptop, whatever you're going to do for the next 30 minutes and ignore the dog, whatever he does. You don't talk to him, you don't respond, no matter what he does. He has to learn to just...BE. To relax, to settle himself down. I found it to be very useful. I did it a couple of times a week. You can also take it "on the road", so to speak, and practice in more distracting places, like a park, once he's learned to do this.

The original exercise was rooted in some outdated training theories, but the actual practice I have found very helpful, especially for dogs that don't seem to have a built in "settle." Your mileage may vary.
 
#13 ·
Idk what you can do for the first part, but the second I say it's best to just let him sleep when he finally decides to just give up.
You can acknowledge him for a moment, but ignore him for the rest of the time. If he knows he will get play time or attention of any kind, he will keep fighting it.
 
#14 · (Edited)
So we've been trying to keep him in his bed or on the couch next to us with a short 1.5' leash, ignoring him. He's so tired that he'll begin to doze off, but then it's like a light switch, like a "wait..if I sleep then I can't play!" Up and ready to go. We haven't been letting him go, but when he settles, he lays on the couch with his head draped off the couch, ready to jump off with any slack. He's a nutcase I swear. But we got him to lay there for a while and just kind of relax I guess. Maybe a little at a time will start to condition him. I'm hoping this works. Do they calm a bit as they age? He NEVER sits still, unless he has a bully stick. Any other tips are great. Thanks guys.


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#15 ·
Hmm.. idk about this 'forcing him the lay down' stuff. I mean to each their own.

Perhaps you all could try getting him used to not being in the same room as you all. Put up a child's gate to keep him out of the front room. If he can get used to the fact that he can't always have access to play, but can still see you all, then eventually he'll get bored enough to sleep, instead of fight it like a 2 year old toddler.
 
#16 ·
Is he crate trained?
 
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#17 ·
Yes. He is in his crate at night and when we are not home. At least until he is a little better behaved. After long days, he'll start to zonk out, so we know he's tired. But then he'll force himself awake, grab a toy and bring it by us, or start mouthing me or my wife to play. (Only does the mouthing when he's exhausted.) Yesterday morning, we went on a 20 minute walk, then played at the park (on his 50ft lead) for an hour, did training while walking and at the park and when we got home, he comes and rests his head on our laps, takes scratches with eyes completely closed. Then he'll lay on the couch for a minute, head up just relaxing, and then boom mouthing, barking, talking, just wants to play. We put him in his crate and he is out like a light in minutes. No whining, nothing. Straight to sleep. So we're like whyyyy can't you just nap on the couch? We would love to cuddle but he just ALWAYS wants to play. Non-stop, maybe he has ADHD? [emoji23]


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#20 ·
Not saying that you aren't, but when he does settle down even if just for a minute, the second he lays down and lets out that sigh tell him what a good boy he is and give him lovin. At this point he might be getting more satisfaction from being restless and bugging you into a possible kind of attention, and may be lacking incentive to settle down.

He is still a pest at times but for mine I ignore him when he should not be bothersome and when he does give up and lays down he gets a good massage and sweet coos from his mama, me! He loves his ears rubbed all over especially. I have to be deliberate though and make sure I don't pet him TOO enthusiastically as this can also be construed as an invitation to play from a forward minded young boy :laugh:
 
#21 ·
Not saying that you aren't, but when he does settle down even if just for a minute, the second he lays down and lets out that sigh tell him what a good boy he is and give him lovin. At this point he might be getting more satisfaction from being restless and bugging you into a possible kind of attention, and may be lacking incentive to settle down.



He is still a pest at times but for mine I ignore him when he should not be bothersome and when he does give up and lays down he gets a good massage and sweet coos from his mama, me! He loves his ears rubbed all over especially. I have to be deliberate though and make sure I don't pet him TOO enthusiastically as this can also be construed as an invitation to play from a forward minded young boy :laugh:


This does make sense! As I'm his biggest playmate I always give into him. He's just such a sweet boy and I can't help it. He did just lay for about 5 minutes yawned and put his head down and I did praise big time. Thanks again!


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#22 ·
I know what you mean, it's hard to say no to a face like that :grin2:. In the beginning when he would lay down after being bothersome my first instinct was oh great! He's laying down finally! Let's make sure I don't move an inch lest he think it's time to play again. But the more I thought about it, any other kind of positive behavior you want to reinforce comes with a reward of some kind, and he's not getting a biscuit every time he settles down so he gets a good pet down instead. Let us know if he improves, and please more photos as he is precious :laugh:!
 
#26 ·
Update! Almost had it! After 2 walks, an hour at the park, and training in the yard, Jack couldn't do anything more than stand in front of me, and in front of the tv of course, and rest his head on my lap falling asleep while standing. He then jumped on the couch and laid down! Eyes closed, although his head was still up. It was maybe 5-10 minutes of voluntary chill time. I was scratching him and kept saying "good settle," but soon he was up, grabbed his rope, and jammed it in my lap. Needless to say, we might be getting somewhere...? Thoughts?


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#27 ·
Sounds like an improvement! :grin2: although being tired helped, even laying on the couch voluntarily for a short amount of time (even despite the workout) was significant enough for you to post an update. I think that in itself proves he is getting better!

Mine will be standing in front of me whining to play, but at the same time can barely keep his eyes open. Boys! After a few minutes he's learned it's better off to just chill as he should be.
 
#28 ·
I would actually recommend NOT touching or talking to him when he finally rests. For some dogs, any interaction or touching is a signal to GET UP AND GO GO GO! You might be interfering with his ability to settle and rest if you are interacting with him in any way once he does finally start to settle down and sleep. He may be like some people - for me, I'm a fairly light sleeper...if people touch me or talk to me, or whatever, I'm AWAKE! So it would really bug me to have someone try to touch me, even gently, when I'm sleeping :) I would try just leaving him alone and letting him rest...there's a reason for the phrase "let sleeping dogs lie."
 
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#29 ·
I can see what you're saying MeadowCat, for me and Brinks I've noticed a positive improvement if I acknowledge he is being a "good boy" and quietly stroke him once he lays down. I make sure it's very subtle so he doesn't (easily) misconstrue it into a cue for activity, but definitely knows he is doing the right thing. I also don't continue on for a long time. But all dogs are different, and as a result different approaches are key! I can certainly identify with yours.
 
#31 ·
Update. This is how it goes now. He settles a bit, lays in the kitchen, sits calmly on the couch, but still not much napping outside of crate. This is our current situation. I think we're making progress.
you can see how sleepy he looks.


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#32 ·
Does he wear a prong in the house all the time? Not anti-prong, but they should really only be on while training. It would be hard for a dog to relax and nap in one. He should really only be in a flat buckle collar or martingale or something similar when you aren't actively training.
 
#33 ·
I second what MeadowCat said, mine gets excited when he wears the prong because he associates it with walks and doing fun things, I imagine if I left it on it would make it ten times more difficult to get him to settle because he would be expecting to go do something.

On another note, he is still looking oh so cute.
 
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