E-Collar Training

dobe8 · 09-13-2008, 03:22 PM

This question is directed to those who have used e-collars or have experience training with them. I know that there are some that disagree with the use of them, however this post is not asking for opinions. Thank you.

I just bought innotek's 2-dog ultrasmart system. I plan on using for recall and off leash obedience. I would like some advice on training techniques to be sure I am starting out using it properly. Please share any or all you tips, thanks!

**Burns** · 09-13-2008, 03:35 PM

I do not disagree with the proper use of an ecollar, however, it is my understanding that the dog should have a strong groundwork of basic obedience skills before you start using an ecollar. The ecollar is not recommended to train these basic skills - it can be used to successfully proof these skills once the dog already knows them.

I don't know when you are planning on starting using it, but I see from your profile that your pup is 5 months old, which imo is way too young to start using an ecollar. I didn't start using one until my dog was close to 18 months old, when he already had a good understanding of obedience skills. I use it to proof off-leash recall after he started blowing off commands he knew. It can be very useful in a situation like this, but I don't think its fair to the dog to use an ecollar when it doesn't have a firm understanding of what you are asking it to do - i.e. when training a puppy. Puppy training should be very positive and should always set up the dog to succeed. Proofing commands with an ecollar comes way later

robinb · 09-13-2008, 03:43 PM

Hi dobe8,

I actually don't train with a e-collar. Rex wears his for off leash hiking as an insurance policy if we were to run into a wild animal and the prey drive kicked into overload. However, even running into deer his recall has stayed solid without me having to use the collar.

My dog prior to Rex, Baron did need to have his recalls proofed with the e-collar. I would only use the e-collar to proof an already fully understood command that for whatever reason the dog ignores, and distractions are fair game to put in the mix. And even with that I wouldn't use an e-collar for anything other than the recall or maybe the stay command, and I'd have to think about that one. I'd never use it for retrives or holding dumbbells etc.

I have horses and my dogs are never out with the horses without my escort, but I do teach the dogs with the e-collar to not to go running up to the horses. That's just something we do here when the dog is around a year old as I won't take the chance of an injury to a horse or dog by the dog running up to the horses. Fence running when the horses are in the adjoining field next to my dog yard is another time I would use the collar.

I sort of think of e-collars as for use in life threatening or life saving situations and solid recalls certainly falls into that category in my opinion.

Of all 4 of my dobes Rex and Baron both were high prey drive, but I probably did a lot better job with some early imprinting on the recalls with Rex, that might have been why Rex has stayed solid without any e-collar corrections.

**Luvbirds59** · 09-13-2008, 03:44 PM

IMO I would not use it for Training any dog. I feel that all other methods of getting a reliable recall should be exhausted first. I would also not use it on a puppy under a year old. It can ruin your dog and your relationship if not used properly.

If all methods fail to get a reliable recall,and the dog truly knows the command, then most of us use it as an *act of God* the dog does not know where the shock comes from, just that if they do not come when called....it just happens. It only takes a couple of hits for it to be 100% effective.

Carol
ox

dobe8 · 09-13-2008, 04:14 PM

I don't know why my profile doesn't update. I have a year old female and a two year old male. They both know all their obedience commands perfectly, they just choose to only listen when they please.

I intend to use the collar correctly. Thats is why I am asking for training techniques. Which I still have not yet received...I understand its a delicate process, I know you have to be careful, I know all the precautions.

I have exhausted all other training techniques. Recall is their worst. They consider it a game to run from me, even if I had steak in my hand. It can be very dangerous for them to act this way.

Like I said, I understand that some of you choose not to use it, this is not directed towards you.

poconogal · 09-13-2008, 04:22 PM

Duke was trained with an e-collar, a total of 9 commands. His e-collar is never used as a correction, however. Instead, it is set very low (we have Dogtra and its usually on 30-40; I've tested it on myself, it amounts to a little buzz/tickle) on my arm. It is used as an attention getter only, when a command is spoken. So, when he is told sit, he gets a simultaneous nick, so that he pays attention to the WORD sit, or -- leave it/nick simultaneously, and he leaves it, and so on. It is very effective for off-leash on our 26 acres. We have 100% recall. He has spotted deer, started after them, we called to him Come/nick and he turned around on a dime and returned. We also have a PAGE button, which I use when I let him out front to go potty. I watch from the front steps, he does his business and when he's done I can page him, which only vibrates the collar. I don't even have to speak, I page, and he comes zooming back to me. Of course, remember that I am on 26 acres, off a private road, we have no fences, but neither do I have neighbors close by and there's certainly no traffic. The word NO is never used, as his training is just the 9 commands, no corrections and using NO is a correction. With his 9 commands, we have no need for using NO. After the e-collar training was in place for awhile, he began getting commands without the use of the collar, which is the ultimate goal. But for off-leash recall, I think I will always use it, its an extra bit of insurance. One thing I've read recently though, is that before beginning with an e-collar, the collar itself should be worn by the dog for at least 2 weeks prior to the start of training, to avoid having the dog become collar smart. Whether that actually works in practice though, I have no idea.

robinb · 09-13-2008, 04:30 PM

There are several ways to use it and hopefully other's will chime in. How I have handled a similiar situation is to give your recall command 'come' or 'here' or whatever you use, if the dog doesn't immediately turn and come to you, then nick him with the collar, make sure you are not nicking after the turn. When he gets back to you reward big time with a treat and happy happy face. I'm not familiar with the levels on your collar or the hardness of your dog so I'd say start at the mid-level for a guess. But that's just a guess.

With that said, again make sure that your dog knows how to turn it off, that he fully understands the recall command.

Now hopefully other's will chime in as I said there are other methods with the collar that also work.

Yes, dogs do become collar smart so they need to wear the collar lots.

poconogal · 09-13-2008, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobe8

I don't know why my profile doesn't update. I have a year old female and a two year old male. They both know all their obedience commands perfectly, they just choose to only listen when they please.

I intend to use the collar correctly. Thats is why I am asking for training techniques. Which I still have not yet received...I understand its a delicate process, I know you have to be careful, I know all the precautions.

I have exhausted all other training techniques. Recall is their worst. They consider it a game to run from me, even if I had steak in my hand. It can be very dangerous for them to act this way.

Like I said, I understand that some of you choose not to use it, this is not directed towards you.

I posted my previous response before I read your post, above. Sounds exactly like what Duke used to do. We were totally on ignore, could not even get his attention. He was a 10 mo. old rescue WILD BOY when we got him and we needed some control and FAST. The e-collar worked wonderfully, I highly recommend it for your situation and I believe it would benefit you to use it as it is used with Duke, as an attention-getter for a spoken command. For come, I'd use a long rope, say "come" with simultaneous nick, and then use the rope to reel 'em in. Every command word you use, nick at the same time it is spoken. One thing that is important is to start with the collar set as low as possible and when you see that he/she is listening, the level that gets his or her attention, that is the level that you would use, unless there are distractions. In those instances, you would raise the setting some. The other time to raise the setting would be if your dog is not sitting when told, ignoring you completely. Then raising the setting is what helps to get them to pay attention to the command.

Oh, one other thing. Duke is given a command, i.e., sit with a nick, and then given a few seconds to comply. If he does not sit, he is told sit again, with the simultaneous nick. After a few seconds, if he still does not sit, he is then told, sit/nick sit/nick sit/nick, and keep going, in quick succession, sit with simultaneous nicks (you may have to slowly raise the setting), until he does sit, sort of the way you would tap someone on the shoulder to get their attention and if they pay you no mind, you'd tap tap tap tap until they finally turn around.

www.leerburg. com I believe has a video of training technique to use with e-collars as well. I don't know if it is the same technique as was used with Duke though.

dobe8 · 09-13-2008, 04:39 PM

THANK YOU!! That is exactly the helpful advice i was looking for!

**Burns** · 09-13-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobe8

I don't know why my profile doesn't update. I have a year old female and a two year old male.

It doesn't update automatically - you have to go into your profiles options and change their ages in those fields.