poconogal

Positively not true. Being one of the folks who say sit with a simultaneous nick, I am saying to Duke - hey Duke, pay attention to this word - SIT. When used as an ATTENTION GETTER only, as my dog was trained, it is merely a slight buzz, on a very low setting. It says to the dog PAY ATTENTION TO THIS WORD - Sit -- it gets his attention, that's all. At no time is my dog in pain, I would NEVER use any method that inflicts pain on an animal. As I stated in my previous posts, Duke's e-collar is never used as a correction, either. I have tested the collar on my inner arm, it buzzes and tickles me, that's how low the setting is. He is also trained to respond to the pager, which only vibrates the collar, he will come when paged. So it is entirely possible to train with an e-collar using a non-correction, non-pain/punishment method. We also never use the word no. He was trained in 9 commands and we have a positive command to use for anything that pops up and no need to tell him no. Duke also gets very excited and happy to see me pick his e-collar up and put it on. Certainly not the reaction one would get if it were causing him pain. Dobes are extremely smart, and if it were causing pain, he would not be ecstatic when its put on him.

Also, for those who don't think its possible for a dog to learn recall after only a few months, Duke was trained in 9 commands in 10 days, using this attention getter method with the e-collar. We only had him for about 2 months when we had him e-collar trained by a great husband and wife training team. He had a full understanding of each and every command after only 10 days. We then worked with him for the next few months to reinforce his training. That was a year ago, and no, he has not blown up on us. For the last few months we have been working with giving his commands without the use of the collar which is the ultimate goal.

Yes, our trainers started with the absolutely lowest setting, and increased slightly until they saw that they got Duke's attention. The first thing I did was to test it on myself, on my inner arm and then again on my palm. It feels like a little buzzing tickle. That's the setting we use and only increase it a bit when outside with distractions.

reisende

I agree. I think there truly are a wide range of the type of dobes: some very soft, some hard, some with intensely high prey drive, some stubborn, some very trainable, etc.

I have used praises, treats (all sorts), long leash (for recalls in fenced park), etc, but Moonshine has consistently blew off my recall whenever I take him offleash to the fenced park (I only go when there is nobody there). right now I circumvent the problem by going very late at night where there are no distractions so I let him offleash to play fetch till he is very tired and would stay at one place and then I can go to him, leash him up and take him home again. but in the day, god forbid - students walking next to the fence of the park (the other side of the fence), or a cat streaking by, that would be the end - Moonshine would pelt away from me, bark his head off. but this will not do, so once my e-collar arrives, I will start training with a trainer to make sure his recalls are 100%, and not running away from me (trust me, he knows what 'come' means at home, or on leash, both long and short. but offleash, he just ignores 'come').

also, he knows his sit, down, stay, 'paw', over, come. he knows these commands. but he chooses to ignore 'come' offleash, and sit and down are touch and go when offleash. I believe an ecollar would be a good reminder, a tap on the shoulder (low nick stim I am talking about), to tell him that, even when offleash, my long hand can still reach him (it can be very very trying to have your dog know that he can ignore/disregard you when offleash - and I need this offleash time to let him have his daily fetch exercises - he's still too young to bike etc).


to the OP: I am tempted to read up extensively on ecollars and training with them, and using the ecollar without a trainer, but personally I feel that using an ecollar without any experience can possiblyl make things worse, unravelling OB training etc, so I have decided to get a (reputable with good references) trainer. you may want to consider that too! good luck.

2RescuedDobies

If you never teach the dog what is expected off leash, how can you ever be sure your dog will know what to do. I feel your use of the words electroshock therapy is too strongly linked in emotion. HOw much experience do you have training dobermans? Have you had experience with high drive dogs that are suitable for dog sports?

And have you ever thought of the possibility the might inadvertantly get loose, slip a lead, have a slip lead fail or collar break? You're not going to be able to recall your dog in an emergency situation off leash if you've never practiced it.

EmilyB

Yes, I'm sorry I was a bit emotional. Sorry, I was tired...

I've had dogs for 45 years, and ever since the first one, I trained for instant recall. I used whistle recall for most of them, I can barely pucker my lips and the dog will turn in mid-air. Especially when they have been trained since puppyhood.

We had a AAA rescued greyhound, and he came recall trained to a game squacker. We're talking serious prey drive....I remember if I barely touched that thing moving something in the cupboard..he'd come flying upstairs from a sound sleep.

If your dog gets out, do you hope he's got his collar on? I just whistle.....

Anyway, just my opinion, now I'll get out of your thread..

RedFawnRising

Well, you know, the therapist was just starting to bitch too much about all the Doberman hairs on her couch.

So, we went to electroshock therapy.

We may have to try Haldol, for Kylie, at some point. She about went thru the sunroof of my car yesterday, trying to "catch" a passing airplane.

Oh, wait, should I not ever take her on a car ride, given her high prey drive?

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Incredibledobe

Please do not use the e-collar without the help of a trainer who is well versed in its use.

It is important that the dog first be taught how to turn off the electricity. It is important to use the lowest level your dog notices and that can take the ability to really read your dog - it may be a sign as slight as the flick of an ear telling you he is feeling it.

We only use it for the recall. But you must first build a solid foundation. Do this by only calling your dog for positive things, feeding, loving, treats. Do not call your dog for anything the dog perceives as negative, which can be as simple as calling him in from outside if he is enjoying himself. That's why it easier to only use the command for feeding, loving, and treats at first. Always release your dog right back to whatever he was doing. If you really need him, go and get him.

I like the e-collar for recalls, but don't like it for off lead OB. If the dog has a good foundation in on lead OB and the transfer is done appropriately, and the dog is enjoying working with you and interacting with you - transitioning is not that hard. People forget, OB is to be an enjoyable activity for the dog, not just a matter of his obeying your every command.

For those who think treats are always the answer to a reliable recall, just wait until you are out without the treats or the dog decides there is something better than that treat across the road....

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Lorna & the INCREDIBLE Dobermanns...

Tahi Reme X-Treme CGC, STT, BH, ZTP-SG1B

UDC/ADA CH.Tahi Reme Gloria
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Incredible A'Diva CGC, ATT

dobe8

Thanks for some of your posts. I plan on getting good advice from a trainer, before use, and having them wear it for weeks before use as well. I am not going to use it as a correction. Simply an "attention getting" device on a low setting. Similar to when someone wants to get your attention by tapping you on the shoulder. I probably won't even need more than the beep or vibration setting anyways.

So everyone just calm down.

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Love the Nub.