Go Back   Doberman Talk Forums > Doberman Training & Obedience > General Training & Obedience

General Training & Obedience All training and obedience questions, tips, articles go here

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-19-2008, 08:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
Alpha
 
Quita's Avatar
 
Posts: 860
Location: New Jersey
Dogs Name: Fiddler & Risa
Titles: Risa CGC
Dogs Age: 10 years, 1 year
Gallery Pics: 21
Visit Quita's Gallery
Thanks: 155
Thanked 129 Times in 91 Posts
Images: 21
Quita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud of
Click here to find out how Quita became a supporter
Training Frustrations - just venting

So last week our instructor commented on what a nice job I was doing with Risa. Today's class... well.... the COMPLETE opposite! Risa and I just couldn't do anything right. We have been working on fronts using a 6 foot leash. The instructor informed us that we should be doing it at 20 feet by now. I kept messing up the heeling because I don't hold the food right, don't hold my arm correctly, don't walk right, don't pace correctly, etc. Then to make things worse, Risa was super restless... She wouldn't sit still and was doing her whining and crying and trying to get treats. Out of all of this comes the realization of everything that I am doing wrong. I was getting so frustrated at Risa, and then I see how I am doing everything wrong and ultimately messing her up. WHen she does her whining, barking, trying to get attention, I click and treat for the moments when she gets quiet. Well, Risa has me totally trained. I think I'm treating for her to be quiet, and she's training ME by acting up so that she can then get the treats between her whining and barking. I'm frustrated at myself for not doing a better job. I am an educator and educational researcher, and everything really "clicked" for me tonight. I realized that I've totally reached that state of cognitive dissonance that is so uncomfortable.. but so necessary.. when certain types of learning occur. I was TOTALLY feeling that dissonance tonight! One thing that makes me feel better is the fact that it's a sign of learning.
__________________


Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
Quita is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Aug 2007
Old 06-19-2008, 08:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
Super Moderator
 
Burns's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,739
Location: Michigan
Dogs Name: Red XIII
Titles: CGC, TDI
Dogs Age: 18 months
Gallery Pics: 313
Visit Burns's Gallery
Thanks: 872
Thanked 773 Times in 369 Posts
Images: 313
Burns has a reputation beyond reputeBurns has a reputation beyond reputeBurns has a reputation beyond reputeBurns has a reputation beyond reputeBurns has a reputation beyond reputeBurns has a reputation beyond reputeBurns has a reputation beyond reputeBurns has a reputation beyond reputeBurns has a reputation beyond reputeBurns has a reputation beyond reputeBurns has a reputation beyond repute
Click here to find out how Burns became a supporter
Don't be so hard on yourself, Quita. It seems like with dog training, it's one step forward and one step back. You will have "off" days and so will Risa. It shows what a good owner you are by having her in a class to begin with and how dedicated you are to her training. Try not to get frustrated, as Risa senses this energy and then neither one of you is having fun. Venting helps (I know I've done my share too), so vent away!
__________________


Gorrmae's Fantasy Red XIII CGC TDI
DOB 2/17/07
red/rust, male neutered Doberman
Burns is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Mar 2007
Old 06-19-2008, 08:54 PM   #3 (permalink)
Alpha
 
waiting's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,441

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit waiting's Gallery
Thanks: 43
Thanked 17 Times in 12 Posts
waiting is a splendid one to beholdwaiting is a splendid one to beholdwaiting is a splendid one to beholdwaiting is a splendid one to beholdwaiting is a splendid one to beholdwaiting is a splendid one to beholdwaiting is a splendid one to beholdwaiting is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burns View Post
Don't be so hard on yourself, Quita. It seems like with dog training, it's one step forward and one step back. You will have "off" days and so will Risa. It shows what a good owner you are by having her in a class to begin with and how dedicated you are to her training. Try not to get frustrated, as Risa senses this energy and then neither one of you is having fun. Venting helps (I know I've done my share too), so vent away!
DITTO
waiting is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2005
Old 06-19-2008, 09:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
Alpha
 
BackInBlack's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,939
Location: Coastal, NC
Dogs Name: Piper, Rommel, Ziris, Brownie, Chomp

Gallery Pics: 41
Visit BackInBlack's Gallery
Thanks: 611
Thanked 694 Times in 202 Posts
Donation Level 2 
Images: 41
BackInBlack has a reputation beyond reputeBackInBlack has a reputation beyond reputeBackInBlack has a reputation beyond reputeBackInBlack has a reputation beyond reputeBackInBlack has a reputation beyond reputeBackInBlack has a reputation beyond reputeBackInBlack has a reputation beyond reputeBackInBlack has a reputation beyond reputeBackInBlack has a reputation beyond reputeBackInBlack has a reputation beyond reputeBackInBlack has a reputation beyond repute
Click here to find out how BackInBlack became a supporter
One step forward, Ten steps back....is the story of my life. I get soooooooooo frustrated sometimes. There are days that I leave training saying "WHY........WHY do I even do this???"

But then I realize that it is about the journey, not the destination. It is the destination that keeps you going though. I have said a HUNDRED times that my dogs deserve better training. I feel like *I* don't do them justice. But then again, how are we to learn? You learn more from your mistakes, than from your successes.....and hopefully......one day.......you will be a better dog trainer because of it. (At least that is what I keep telling myself...haha)

Just keep on, keeping on....tomorrow is another day!

As long as you LEARN from your mistakes, that is what is important.
__________________
"Adversity causes some men to break; others to break records"






Last edited by BackInBlack; 06-19-2008 at 09:36 PM.
BackInBlack is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Dec 2005
Old 06-19-2008, 09:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
Doberadman
 
Kratty's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,189
Location: DC Area
Dogs Name: Nikita & Alexis
Dogs Age: 3 years & 1 year
Gallery Pics: 28
Visit Kratty's Gallery
Thanks: 13
Thanked 84 Times in 30 Posts
Images: 28
Kratty has a reputation beyond reputeKratty has a reputation beyond reputeKratty has a reputation beyond reputeKratty has a reputation beyond reputeKratty has a reputation beyond reputeKratty has a reputation beyond reputeKratty has a reputation beyond reputeKratty has a reputation beyond reputeKratty has a reputation beyond reputeKratty has a reputation beyond reputeKratty has a reputation beyond repute
Click here to find out how Kratty became a supporter
You have good days and you have bad days, except the bad days get pretty bad sometimes.... And the more it gets, it seems to travel right down the leash... Its a lesson learned. I know I had plenty of days like that....
__________________


"Never sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
Kratty is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jul 2005
Old 06-19-2008, 09:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
Big Pup
 
premeddc's Avatar
 
Posts: 32
Dogs Name: Ramsies
Titles: Will be working for our CGC, CD, CDX, UD, UDX, and OTCH titles.
Dogs Age: will be coming home in 2 weeks!!!
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit premeddc's Gallery
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
premeddc is on a distinguished road
I don't have my dog yet, but I am a born leader. I have read that a pack leader is to show there cool at all times, be confident in posture and inside. But even us leaders loose our cool at some point. That goes for all living kind. Me personally think if you feel it on the inside but don't show it on the outside we have a step above the rest. The only thing I really have to say about it is when you feel the most tormented on the inside is when you have to keep your cool the most on the outside.
premeddc is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Apr 2008
Old 06-19-2008, 10:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
Alpha
 
Quita's Avatar
 
Posts: 860
Location: New Jersey
Dogs Name: Fiddler & Risa
Titles: Risa CGC
Dogs Age: 10 years, 1 year
Gallery Pics: 21
Visit Quita's Gallery
Thanks: 155
Thanked 129 Times in 91 Posts
Images: 21
Quita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud of
Click here to find out how Quita became a supporter
One big thing I learned today.... OK.. maybe I already "learned" it... but it really hit HOME today...

Next time I'm quick to get frustrated at Risa, I really need to look at MYSELF. I also need to work on that frustration level.... Need to keep it from getting to Risa! (She's been sound asleep ever since we got home this evening! I guess it was a big day for both of us!)
__________________


Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
Quita is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Aug 2007
Old 06-19-2008, 10:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
Alpha
 
Posts: 1,042
Dogs Name: Better Than Ezra, "Ezra," and Kylie Boomerang, "Kylie," and Mudshovel, The Lab
Titles: Ezra-Working Service Dog; Kylie-Champion Compeller of Humans to Train Better; Mudshovel, Retired
Dogs Age: 2 yrs, 1 yr, 13 yrs
Gallery Pics: 3
Visit RedFawnRising's Gallery
Thanks: 653
Thanked 1,117 Times in 486 Posts
Images: 3
RedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond reputeRedFawnRising has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quita View Post
...then I see how I am doing everything wrong and ultimately messing her up. WHen she does her whining, barking, trying to get attention, I click and treat for the moments when she gets quiet. Well, Risa has me totally trained. I think I'm treating for her to be quiet, and she's training ME by acting up so that she can then get the treats between her whining and barking.
1. You're for sure not doing everything wrong.

2. You're not messing her up. It's a work in progress.

3. Good on you, for recognizing the "chaining" behaviors! (Do you know how many folks would not have picked up on that? Or been unable to admit that's what might be going on, even if it's pointed out to them.)

4. From the few posts of yours I've read, I'm not becoming a huge fan of your trainer.

A good trainer should be fostering an atmosphere where both the dog and the human partner are set up to succeed.

Training class for sure has its frustrations and set-backs, but it shouldn't be an exercise in having one's self-esteem publicly flogged.

I think the things you are doing at home sound like they are working well for you and Risa. Trust your gut and focus on what is working for you--you know Risa best.
__________________
It takes more than a baby and a box to make a normal monkey.—Harry F. Harlow
RedFawnRising is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jun 2008
Old 06-19-2008, 11:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
Alpha
 
Quita's Avatar
 
Posts: 860
Location: New Jersey
Dogs Name: Fiddler & Risa
Titles: Risa CGC
Dogs Age: 10 years, 1 year
Gallery Pics: 21
Visit Quita's Gallery
Thanks: 155
Thanked 129 Times in 91 Posts
Images: 21
Quita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud ofQuita has much to be proud of
Click here to find out how Quita became a supporter
Training

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
A good trainer should be fostering an atmosphere where both the dog and the human partner are set up to succeed.
I appreciate everybody's kind words and understanding! I did feel that I needed to hear something POSITIVE after class. I agree that a "good trainer should foster an atmosphere where both the dog and the human partner are set up to succeed." I was comparing today's class to my trailing classes. I'm a TOTAL novice at trailing, and yet I felt so GOOD after I trained for an entire weekend with my trailing instructor. I learned SO MUCH, but I never felt like I was a failure. I did not feel very successful after today's class, but venting, talking with others, and hearing all of your comments has certainly helped! Next weekend I'm going to Boston to train with Michael Ellis. I've heard WONDERFUL things about him. I hear that he's a very good instructor and communicates very well with his students. I can't wait to go!
__________________


Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
Quita is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Aug 2007
Old 06-19-2008, 11:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
Alpha
 
Posts: 702

Gallery Pics: 1
Visit K9Jarko's Gallery
Thanks: 157
Thanked 150 Times in 61 Posts
Donation Award 
Images: 1
K9Jarko has a brilliant futureK9Jarko has a brilliant futureK9Jarko has a brilliant futureK9Jarko has a brilliant futureK9Jarko has a brilliant futureK9Jarko has a brilliant futureK9Jarko has a brilliant futureK9Jarko has a brilliant futureK9Jarko has a brilliant futureK9Jarko has a brilliant futureK9Jarko has a brilliant future
Click here to find out how K9Jarko became a supporter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quita View Post
Next weekend I'm going to Boston to train with Michael Ellis. I've heard WONDERFUL things about him. I hear that he's a very good instructor and communicates very well with his students. I can't wait to go!
STILL not fair......the GSD Invitationals and then a Michael Ellis Seminar

As for "today's class".......ya gotta leave the bad days/performances behind you..take what you've learned and start fresh tomorrow. Sometimes easier said then done, but you'll both perform better if your able to do that. It is definitely very insightful of you to have figured out - that dogs can turn the tables and train us to perform. One of the reasons why I video tape alot of my training sessions (using a tripod) is so that I can review my errors, watch my body language to see if I'm keying my dogs in any way..... as well as to see what we need to focus on. Even the "spotters" that we have with keen eyes at our club, don't catch some of the things that I have been able to catch after reviewing the video a few times.

I had a very very baddddddd training session tonight as well to the point where I swear I was giving the commands in Dutch.... but from my dogs reaction (or lack thereof) = you'd swear I was saying them in English- all the way home I kept reminding myself that tomorrow is a brand new day....as well as of a game plan to resolve the "issues".

Last edited by K9Jarko; 06-20-2008 at 12:05 AM.
K9Jarko is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Dec 2006
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On