Julie W

The stars are apparently not aligned correctly because we also had a lack-luster performance at club training tonight. Cher is tired. I realized that I have been working her really hard this past week with a race meet on Saturday, 11 hours at the NW Working Dog Expo on Sunday, more obedience practice sessions at home than usual, plus getting back on the bike and increased distances. I feel like a horrible mother after I saw how worn out she was at training tonight. We are taking a week off to be brainless. I think we'll be pretty good at it.

Bottom line is, they aren't robots, and neither are we. We all have our good and bad days so don't be hard on yourself. If this stuff was so easy everyone would have a perfectly trained dog.

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2RescuedDobies

Quita
There are some training days that you just have to take a deep breath,back up and ask what is my dog telling me. We have a partnership with our dogs. They have some imput as to how we train too.

While the trainer should be guiding you, there shouldn't be well you should be at point x already. Our dogs can be very much like our students they make gains and sometimes lose ground. We just have to adjust accordingly and be ready to either reteach or just have fun with it.

We have off days and so do the dogs. When I see Boris is having an off day I back up and do something I know he'll feel successful.

I'm reading Sheila Booth's Purely Positive Training and it has changed the way I train and made Boris not only more confident but happier too.

Going to train with Michael Ellis is wonderful he trains using motivational techniques.

zeus and me

we had a good training night last night zeus has become darn good at heeling! I am so proud! although we have a sloopy sit. my trainer spent time TRYING to get my hand in the right spot to get a good sit from zeus. but I am really tall so I have to bend all around to get my hand right. that is our practice for the week......a good sit!

so dont be hard on youself and your dog. your trainer SHOULD praise you on what you do well.......and help you practice what you dont do well. It will all come together and remember!!!!!!! it is for fun! and to better you and the dog. dont turn it into real work.....or you and your dog will be unhappy

Rosamburg

During the teaching/showing phase our teaching is purely positive motivation- generally with play/tugs. We don't use purely positive motivation techniques once a dog has passed the teaching/showing phase. Once the dog has learned the exercise, then corrections are introduced during the proofing and securing phases. Of course they are still rewarded for good work, through praise and play/tug work.

I cannot speak to what occurs in a positive only environment but perhaps this post points out the shortcomings of such an environment. For us the greatest strides in training usually come when the dog makes mistakes and stress is applied (not compulsion). The results are dramatic when the dog learns to work through stress from being incorrect and into comfort (being correct). No stress/correction is applied while the dog is working/trying to get correct.

It would seem to me that another major pitfall to positive only environments would be when distractions are introduced. For us this is another area of huge strides in training. I don't understand how a positive only training environment can take advantage of distractions to proof and secure a dog. When the "purely postive" dog is exposed to severe distractions I think it is unlikely they are going to continue to work at a high level with complete focus on the handler. To take it a step further how does the dog gain respect for the handler during the protection phase when they are in full prey drive? A decoy with a sleeve would seemingly outweigh any kind of motivational rewards the handler could bring to the table. To my understanding a dog would have had to have gained respect of the handler through getting corrected by giving into the distraction during prior training exercises. For example we do heeling exercises with a decoy wearing a sleeve and even cracking a whip. I guarantee the dog with bitework experience is going to give into the distraction a number of times during early proofing or securing phases. The dog then gains the understanding that no matter what the attraction elsewhere might be they have to pay attention to the handler.

K9Jarko

I cannot speak to what occurs in a positive only environment but perhaps this post points out the shortcomings of such an environment.

No matter what method or combination of methods one uses - there is not a dog or handler alive that has not had a bad day(s). Considering the pups/dogs in question in this post are fairly young - either to training or in years....not surprising at all that they would not be as consistent as say.....a 4 yr old dog that has had at least a couple of years of training.

As for obedience during the protection phase....or my personal problem right now with my young dog knowing the difference between obedience phase and protection phase - when three helpers are on the field in full garb with 6 blinds up (collapsible type) while we are doing obedience.... with them smacking a whip. I personally feel that it is a matter of subjecting my over the top in drive young dog to this....and I know it can be done..... as he was very consistent and level headed in his French Ring training (which IMO offers alot more temptations to a dog in drive). I really don't think it IS a matter of a dogs respect or lack there of - but instead a matter of him learning (which is the process we are currently in) to remain clear-headed and perform the task at hand that I am asking/requiring him to perform. Consistency (along with a well thought out plan and willingness from others to not try to "cookie cutter" train my dog) on my part and later his....is the key.....no matter what method or combo of method one choses to use.

I honestly don't believe that one method - fits all dogs. We all have to find what works - for the particular dog we are working.

Quita

Good idea! I just got a new video camera for my work and research. I believe (but I'm not sure) that I got a new tripod with it. I think I'll take your advice and start video taping our sessions. My instructor did point out a number of things about my body posture. I'm sure the video will help!!

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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

Quita

I've had a few issues with my instructor from day 1. Issues are related to both philosophy and methodology. We are at the end of our second session with her. I think we're in our 15th week of class. I'm planning to continue with her, but in the meantime I've put out feelers for other instructors in the area. I KNOW that there has got to be a better match for Risa and me.

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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

zeus and me

my trainer is video taping each of use working.....they pop the tape in when we go out.......then when we are finished we can go in the buliding and watch it.......take it home to watch-what ever we wish....as long as we bring it back for the next class

Quita

Lacey, Somehow I missed your post above. I was reading posts before and after it! Well, today wasn't much better. I thought I'd work Risa at home.. This time in a different field. (Yesterday I took her to an open field in a park to play.) I thought I'd work on basic attention exercises and maybe some fronts and putting Risa in the heel position. Well.... Things did not go as planned. There were these birds darting around and kept going back and forth about 3 feet from the ground. I think they were eating the bugs that were out. Well, Risa couldn't keep her eyes off of the birds and was going crazy.. wanting to chase them. I tried playing the name game, the attention "watch" game, clicking and treating when she'd look at me, corrections... NOTHING worked. Forget the fronts, heel position, sit stays, etc... I couldn't even get a LOOK or flicker of the ears from her! Thanks to my trusty tug that I pulled out, I did get some nice sits, drops, downs, and a few stays. That was the ONLY way to get her eyes off of the birds. It was warm out and so I didn't want to do too much tugging. Once I put the tug away... I again got ZERO attention from her. Now I know where we will be going for more of our training sessions! She needs more work with the outdoor distractions. It was so hard to not get frustrated... Grr..... Patience, patience, patience. I would hold food RIGHT in front of her nose to no avail. It's like she didn't even SEE it. Dangling hotdogs in front of her nose?? Forget it. The tug, the tug, the tug. I think I really need to make more use of it during our training. I really, really need to find somebody in the area who does obedience using some of Ivan's methods. It works for us better than a lot of other things that I've been trying.

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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

VegasHR

Could part of the problem be her age at this point?? They go through stages as you know and maybe it's just a testing period or ADD time. I know Vegas was wonderful for the longest time, he got everything we did and did it well-until one day someone stole his brain and he was completely stupid, he knew nothing. He acted like this was the first time I asked for this stuff and wanted no part of it. He has since gotten better, he still has a very flat, almost bored way about him while training. Maybe age is a factor, just a thought. Good luck, don't give up and don't beat yourself up over it, that's why it's called learning.

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