Need Advice Dobe and Kids

GatorDobe · 06-14-2008, 09:31 PM

I need help. My Dobe is just over 2 years and has a general dislike for kids. Firstly let me say, he is as happy go lucky non aggressive in the house as can be. My min schnauzer is the boss of him. He has absolutely no problems with warming up to adults in my home or if I take him somewhere else. He generally plays well with most dogs and usually is the one trying to avoid the other ones antics, especially with males. We do not have kids or have friends with kids and we just moved from Vegas. So the fact that he was not socialized around kids is probably part of the problem. When we lived in Vegas for the bulk of his life, we shared a back fence with two little girls that I believed threw rocks at him at some point. The girls liked him though and would always shout his name. He was fine if I was out there, but I let him out he would run the fence and bark at them. Now, I have moved to rural Missouri and like to walk him around the neighborhood which has lots of kids. There have been a two instances lately that have certainly gotten my attention. The other day my wife opened the door and hadn't closed the garage door fully and he got out and there were kids riding their bike and he ran after them and barked, before coming back to her command. Then today I was walking him and a little boy, 5ish, walked up and said nice, nice dog and I immediately grabbed hold of him and he took the defensive and growled as I drug him along. The kid was brave and said nice dog bye! However, on the move from Vegas to Missouri we stopped at Family's house in Denver and I was extremely reluctant about leaving him at their house while we stayed somewhere else because he had a small 4ish old girl, and a few month old baby. When I arrived the next morning, he had him in the house with the kids and he was completely fine, just as he acts all the time. He would even start nosing the baby's face in the walker and the baby would make a noise and he would be scared. So it seems it is all about the environment he is in. So is there any advice one socializing him to kids at 2+ years because his behavior now is unacceptable, and there is not room for error to try to do it when random kids try to come to him on his walk. Borrowing peoples kids is obviously not an option... Thoughts... Thank you.

robinb · 06-14-2008, 11:02 PM

The defensive might have kicked in when when you grabbed him. I'm not saying you had any other choice in the matter but grabbing a dog like that and pulling him away does send the message to them that maybe that is a bad person. Re the kids on bikes that could have been prey drive focused in on the moving bikes and he might have done that with a group of adults riding by, hard to say. Since he was okay with your families kids I think he could be socialized to kids. However, I think I would talk to a professional and get some help with it. I don't have kids either and I think it's easy for dogs just to not know what they are. Best to get some professional help in my opinion.

reisende · 06-15-2008, 01:02 AM

I have a similar problem to you, just that my male dobe is almost 8 months old and I want him to love kids but like you, I have no kids nor close friend/family with kids to "practice on", so to speak.

ok firstly, I think the below:

Quote:

He would even start nosing the baby's face in the walker and the baby would make a noise and he would be scared.

is TOO dangerous. if you are unsure how he behaves with kids, I don't think it's wise at all to let your dobe nose a baby's face! if it were your baby, I believe you wouldn't want that. you never know your dobe may be scared of a sound the baby made and bite in fear. anything can happen.

I was given advice here to start slowly. when you see a kid, make your dobe sit and stay, and after the kid walks by without your dobe growling etc, praise and praise him. treat him too. work that up to having kids walk closer by him, and again praise when he doesn't growl etc. somebody here once worked that up to the point that a kid was given a long hotdog to give to the dobe, without any contact with the kid.

slowly your dobe would associate kids of praises and treats. then you can move up to the point with kids slowly letting your dobe sniff their hands, and then petting, etc. but don't push it. these are kids we're talking about!

some would also advise you to go to a trainer.

as for babies, they are a different story altogether. I wouldn't alllow my dobe to go near a baby. they are unpredictable, make startling loud noises or cry loudly, and I don't need my dobe to unexpectedly growl or be afraid of it. in fact, if and when I do have a baby one day in the future, I would create no-go zones for my dobe. that is, until the baby grows to about four years old, and slowly let the dobe know that the baby/kid is ABOVE him in the pack.

good luck.

**voodoolizard** · 06-15-2008, 04:40 AM

i think the problem you will have is when you are out he is on a leash. dogs are better at new things when off leash.

If you have no kids to borrow ??

perhaps the best thing would be to get a professional to help!!

do you have any new neighbours you could invite round for coffee with kids ??

GatorDobe · 06-15-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

The defensive might have kicked in when when you grabbed him.

No, as the kid approached he taught the lease and tensed up, I felt it coming and it did he growled and I dragged him away, 2 feet later he was happy go lucky.

Quote:

is TOO dangerous. if you are unsure how he behaves with kids, I don't think it's wise at all to let your dobe nose a baby's face! if it were your baby, I believe you wouldn't want that. you never know your dobe may be scared of a sound the baby made and bite in fear. anything can happen.

I was absolutely against the whole situation of having them in the house. Not because I was fearful of him biting anything, but more of him knocking one of them over. When I arrived I was apprehensive, but it was not going to take him out of one of the only social situations he has had with kids. He was absolutely fine with them and ignored them for the most part unless the acknowledged him. When you guys say its impossible to give advice without seeing the dog or reading him, well that is how I know that situation was fine, because I know my dog.

I believe the leash is one of the problems and just being out of the house is the other one, as he is a window barker/growler and anything that goes by because he can see out of it eye level. As far as getting a professional help, its kinda hard. We live in the middle of rural Missouri and it is an hour and half to the nears "big" city and I don't have the time/resources to do that right now if I wanted to. Also, I've never really been able to call petsmart professional help if that's what you mean since I met the people that worked at the one in my neighborhood in Vegas.

Thanks for all your replies though.

**lyngr** · 06-15-2008, 01:37 PM

Getting a professional to step in is definitely the correct advice.

They will help you figure out what situations trigger your dog and how to let your dog make positive associations with (neighborhood) kids. You have to use a ton of positive reinforcement from a distance, moving closer in gradual increments instead of letting kids come right up to him. For family members that he seems to be okay with, close supervision and positive reinforcement is still a MUST.

I always let children give Cinny treats and throw her beloved tennis ball to her.. two of her favorite things. I never let anyone get too close to her face, loom over her or hug her, regardless of how mellow she is.

Even with conditioning your dog may never be completely comfortable around kids, unfortunately. It's up to you to keep your dog out of compromising situations.

robinb · 06-16-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorDobe

No, as the kid approached he taught the lease and tensed up, I felt it coming and it did he growled and I dragged him away, 2 feet later he was happy go lucky.

I was absolutely against the whole situation of having them in the house. Not because I was fearful of him biting anything, but more of him knocking one of them over. When I arrived I was apprehensive, but it was not going to take him out of one of the only social situations he has had with kids. He was absolutely fine with them and ignored them for the most part unless the acknowledged him. When you guys say its impossible to give advice without seeing the dog or reading him, well that is how I know that situation was fine, because I know my dog.

I believe the leash is one of the problems and just being out of the house is the other one, as he is a window barker/growler and anything that goes by because he can see out of it eye level. As far as getting a professional help, its kinda hard. We live in the middle of rural Missouri and it is an hour and half to the nears "big" city and I don't have the time/resources to do that right now if I wanted to. Also, I've never really been able to call petsmart professional help if that's what you mean since I met the people that worked at the one in my neighborhood in Vegas.

Thanks for all your replies though.

Petsmart type training is not what I was thinking of. If it's impossible to get any professional help right now, then I would be doing 20 minutes a day of obedience training, plus lots of exercise. You might try searching for a working dog or Schutzund club in your area as often times the training director of those clubs do private lessons, or they might send you to someone. Dogs are very keen about reading things from us that we are not aware of, so when he/you are around kids try to relax and convey to the dog that you like them. Many times one or two sessions with a good professional can get you on the right path.

GatorDobe · 06-16-2008, 07:47 PM

Well, if anyone knows of any trainers or clubs around the West Central Missouri area, please let me know. There isn't of information on the DPCM website and good has yielded nothing within a 2 hr drive. Thanks for all the replies.