automatic sits and conformation

Dobemom2b · 04-06-2008, 03:31 PM

Lestats new ob instructor is very much into automatic sits every time you stop. She has ask everyone to go to just above the tail with the left hand and guide the dog into place (not pushing on the hips but sort of rounding them into a sit) while the right hand directs leash and head up.

I agree that its a good concept as opposed to trying to push down at the hips however if you plan to show a dog wouldnt it be more difficult for the dog to understand that when you touch around the tail you want it up and legs kicked back if you have or are also using that same area to key a autosit? Lestat seems somewhat confused as to what he is to do when now when above his tail is touched. I did not use rear end signals at all but just holding head (and luring/baiting) up to originally teach him to sit and a few times touching the back of his legs until he got the idea.

He sits 99% of the time on his own but not always straight. Would it be better for me to use the left hand as a 'rail' to guide the sit to be straighter?

It also seems that my working with him on front and finish are interfering with the order she wants to do things in so we have stopped with those for a bit

reddobes · 04-06-2008, 05:14 PM

I use different commands for when we are working in obedience and want the automatic sit (HEEL) vs. when we are gaiting for the conf. ring (LETS GO and will also say STAND or PRETTY as we slow down to stop).
I have never guided her into a sit the way you describe, so not sure what to tell you there.
As far as the crooked sit, you could try practicing along a wall and not leaving him much room so he can't swing his rear out when he sits.

Good luck in class!

CoAl-s-Mom · 04-06-2008, 05:18 PM

No advice about auto sits since I have never shown, but Cole's crooked sits were corrected by heeling him on a curb. It really helped to make him pay more attention to where he needed to be.

alwayshadpets · 04-06-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dobemom2b

Lestats new ob instructor is very much into automatic sits every time you stop. She has ask everyone to go to just above the tail with the left hand and guide the dog into place (not pushing on the hips but sort of rounding them into a sit) while the right hand directs leash and head up.

This is one method of teaching a tuck sit. The is the sit you want not a rock sit (a sit where the dog back his front legs toward his rear is a rock sit. A rock sit puts your dog out of position in heel

I agree that its a good concept as opposed to trying to push down at the hips however if you plan to show a dog wouldnt it be more difficult for the dog to understand that when you touch around the tail you want it up and legs kicked back if you have or are also using that same area to key a autosit? Lestat seems somewhat confused as to what he is to do when now when above his tail is touched. I did not use rear end signals at all but just holding head (and luring/baiting) up to originally teach him to sit and a few times touching the back of his legs until he got the idea.

I do not do confirmation, but in obedience work a dog can be taught anything with a new word or gesture. Perhaps you can use the word tail up as the word you use in the confirmation ring. I don`t see why you can`t do both. I may try confirmation in a few years and thats what I plan on doing because I think it can be done.

He sits 99% of the time on his own but not always straight. Would it be better for me to use the left hand as a 'rail' to guide the sit to be straighter?

I wouldn`t, it would just become another crutch you have to get rid of. Practicing next to a wall was a good suggestion. Give release word, treat immediately if done correctly. Sometimes sitting straight in heel position goes hand in hand with the dog knowing where the heel position is. He really needs to know both to work on the correct place to sit when heeling. I would be working with the dog getting in heel position, while you are not walking. than saying sit and treat, praise heavily if he gets in the correct position. There is more that can be done after he knows the heel position and the sit--if you add a third thing now, it may be too much.

It also seems that my working with him on front and finish are interfering with the order she wants to do things in so we have stopped with those for a bit

Front & finish are 2 separate exercises. At home work them separtely. You do not have to do a front, than finish at the same time. Teach it separtely. Dogs prefer it that way anyway. Keeps it interesting for them. They don`t know what fun thing you are going to ask for.

Murreydobe · 04-06-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dobemom2b

Lestats new ob instructor is very much into automatic sits every time you stop. She has ask everyone to go to just above the tail with the left hand and guide the dog into place (not pushing on the hips but sort of rounding them into a sit) while the right hand directs leash and head up.

I agree that its a good concept as opposed to trying to push down at the hips however if you plan to show a dog wouldnt it be more difficult for the dog to understand that when you touch around the tail you want it up and legs kicked back if you have or are also using that same area to key a autosit? Lestat seems somewhat confused as to what he is to do when now when above his tail is touched. I did not use rear end signals at all but just holding head (and luring/baiting) up to originally teach him to sit and a few times touching the back of his legs until he got the idea.

He sits 99% of the time on his own but not always straight. Would it be better for me to use the left hand as a 'rail' to guide the sit to be straighter?

It also seems that my working with him on front and finish are interfering with the order she wants to do things in so we have stopped with those for a bit

I always use the right hand to sit a dog, using the left to guide the rear into the correct position in the training process. I think this actually results in straighter sits than using the left hand to work the leash..if your elbow is bent when using the left arm (as it frequently is), the angle you use to guide the head will throw the rear out.

Most of my dogs have been obedience trained prior to being shown in the conformation ring, I've never had a problem with them being confused..different collars, different handlers, different commands.

What I think WOULD cause a problem with auto sits in the breed ring would be the philosophy you say your handler uses about an auto sit every time the dog stops. I'm not sure whether you mean only during heeling or every time the dog stops when it's on a leash. If the dog isn't under the heel command, then it shouldn't have to sit...sometimes a dog's just gotta be a dog. If they're not under a heel command, I think they should be able to do what they want as long as they're under control and near you. Making the dog sit every time it comes to a stop when it's leashed definitely could create a dog who auto sits inappropriately in the breed ring.

One thing that might help if you're getting crooked sits is to sit the dog faster..the faster they sit, the more likely it is they'll sit straight. It's when the dog takes it's own sweet time sitting that they're likely to start getting creative about it.

Dobemom2b · 04-06-2008, 09:55 PM

She has only done 2 classes so far, but it seems she wants sits unless they are under another command. That they should default to sit. As I recall she said they should auto sit if they are not supposed to be doing something else (he defaults to a sphynx down)

She does not hold conformation classes and has not shown in conformation as far as I am aware. The classes are designed for the general public so I mostly just want to avoid creating problems down the road that would not be an issue at all to a pet owner. He may or may not be shown but as my learning dog he has to take the brunt of my experements lol.

Murreydobe · 04-06-2008, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dobemom2b

She has only done 2 classes so far, but it seems she wants sits unless they are under another command. That they should default to sit. As I recall she said they should auto sit if they are not supposed to be doing something else (he defaults to a sphynx down)

If the dog is supposed to default to sit the entire time it's leashed, then I think that could create some real problems trying to show the dog in breed.

**velmadobe** · 04-06-2008, 10:23 PM

I just don't teach an automatic sit till they are finished in the breed ring - I do teach a "sit" command, and they do tend to pick up on the differences in what you are doing.

My obedience instructor was always ok with me not doing the automatic sit because she knew I was showing. I think most people would be as long as you let them know why.

That said, this is a pretty smart breed and I think as long as you teach a strong "stand" command that they will do just fine.