Alpha Dogs (Anyone watch it?) - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums

PorschaLei · 02-08-2013, 11:38 PM

I know its a brand new show but has anyone started or looking into watching Alpha Dogs its on NAT GEOwild. Some aspects of the show so far i find interesting but some ideologies i really disagree with. Anyone else got any opinions?

One concern I have is in their intro they describe the dogs as "not pets" but "tools" now i understand they gotta hold that machoness for the show and dogs in the task force arent all "butterflies and buttercups" but i dont want this to fuel oh i want a Alpha Dog type stupidly in uneducated owners. Maybe i think too much

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Rosemary · 02-08-2013, 11:43 PM

I haven't seen it yet. I thought I was DVRing it, but evidently I wasn't, so I've set it to record the repeat later on in the week.

Adobe4two · 02-09-2013, 02:53 AM

... One thing that caught my attention is the Security clearance claim... You're not supposed to advertise a security clearance because its a security risk. There have been military personnel and contracters that have had serious repurcussions for broadcasting that sort of thing (like losing clearances).

Also, I'm curious as to how truthful or embellished some of the other claims are, such as the claim of having the largest military contract and that they train and supply the military & special forces... Which doesn't really fit with what I've heard from military K-9 personnel and on-site contractors... Like are they REALLY training and placing actual Military K-9s or do they offer seminars & training courses that might be taken by military personnel with personal dogs or, command permitting, their actual K-9 partners. But given that K-9 forces have on-site contractors, trainers and training facilities... And those I've spoken with start their K-9 partners at an early age usually, rather than getting an off-site trained adult dog...

I've google searched some of the claims and found nothing so far, aside from their website.

ETA: Ok, yep. They do have a DOD contract with the Army reported in 2011. A pricey one too apparently, over $11 million. And from the looks of it they train teams for the military, rather than train and place dogs with the military. So that makes more sense to me.

But I still can't help but roll my eyes at the macho biker, bad-ass dogs image Nat Geo is going for. I mean seriously? I love alternative fashion, hobbies and crap but I'm getting sick of the "bad-ass" image paired up with maligned D-listed breeds.

Meldrew79 · 02-09-2013, 09:29 AM

Quote:

But I still can't help but roll my eyes at the macho biker, bad-ass dogs image Nat Geo is going for. I mean seriously? I love alternative fashion, hobbies and crap but I'm getting sick of the "bad-ass" image paired up with maligned D-listed breeds.

This! I almost didn't watch the second half, but thought I should give it a chance. I probably won't continue to watch unless I'm really bored, too my testosterone for me!

I also didn't like the "tool" comment or "if you want a pet, go to Petco". That guy really irritated me. I understand the sentiment, but there are a lot better ways to say it.

PorschaLei · 02-09-2013, 02:23 PM

Thats what i thought. I felt they were being wayy to "machoy" but ill see how this show goes. I just hope they dont star a following of people who think they can make these military trained dogs.

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ZeldaRules · 02-09-2013, 03:04 PM

I want to see it. I liked the if you want a pet go to PETCO comment. It's true. Average Civilians that get mals, dutchies, and working line shepherds bc they want a "bad ass" "police" dog have no idea what they're doing or getting into as these dogs are meant to work, not be couch potato pets!

I appreciate the blunt and straight forward approach when it comes to the type of dogs these trained people are working with. They are not pets, they are soldiers or police officers on 4 legs!

GRAYGHOST · 02-09-2013, 03:47 PM

I watched the first shows, and will continue to watch as military, and, especially police dog training, has always been a big interest for me. Apparently the training that is done for the military is for special operations units, not the regular training that is done at Lackland AFB.

The show's title "Alpha Dogs" means a lot to people interested in real working dogs, as opposed to show/obedience dogs. Not trying to hurt feelings (I have owned show/obedience dogs), but my one real "Alpha" dog, a male Rottweiler, was in another catagory,

River · 02-09-2013, 05:00 PM

I'll check it out for sure. I'm curious.

And Greyghost- yep, the one real 'alpha' type dog I lived with was a female Rottie that belonged to a housemate. She wound up in a shelter, because as Zelda said, her original owners had NO idea what they were getting into. Neither did my housemates. They finally rehomed her to a working cattle ranch, where she picked up the original work that Rotties did- herding and guarding cattle. She was an amazing dog, but had drives like you wouldn't believe. Basically, everything a Rottie should be.

River · 02-09-2013, 05:13 PM

Thinking back on that Rottie, I really missed an opportunity there. I had the option to take her on, but had my heart set on a Doberman. Although that was probably a good thing, because if I'd taken her, I wouldn't have had Logan. I credit him with teaching me more about serious dog issues and aggression, and working with a dog who'd go so far off the handle that he would blow off his handler in favor of going after something he really wanted. Other dogs, in his case.

That rottie, once I had her respect, had no issue with doing what I asked of her. It's really hard to describe her personality, but there was no give in that dog at all. She had all the courage, intensity, and confidence you could ever want. Plenty of drive to work, a bit hard-headed, had to have a job, intense, graceful, SMART. Wow, was she smart. She's my go-to example whenever anyone starts talking about Rotties being dumb, because she sure as heck wasn't. She was a joy to train, once you figured out what really made her tick.

Griffin comes close as far as drive to work, and his focus is incredible, but she just had an edge that he doesn't (you know I love you no matter what, Griffdog). Someday, when I have the time and space, I'd love to find myself another dog like Trinity. Not a Rottweiler, but that combination of traits she had. My dream dog, absolutely, and I'll be going in with a good breeder, a plan in place, and not as a newbie dog owner. Just not happening this year, I think. It's worth waiting for, and not something that you should go into if you're not prepared.

Meldrew79 · 02-09-2013, 05:58 PM

I definitely appreciate them trying to make people understand that these dogs are not your average house pet. The way that guy said the whole Petco thing though just really turned me off. You can just tell he thinks he's something special. People like that make me crazy so it could just be my bias!

Rosemary · 02-09-2013, 08:36 PM

I've been seeing the ads for an upcoming episode, about a cadaver dog, and it looks like it is a Boykin Spaniel. Not exactly what you think of when you think "working dog".

ZeldaRules · 02-09-2013, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meldrew79

I definitely appreciate them trying to make people understand that these dogs are not your average house pet. The way that guy said the whole Petco thing though just really turned me off. You can just tell he thinks he's something special. People like that make me crazy so it could just be my bias!

I guess I just took it differently. I mean, it is what it is...there are pets and then there are working dogs that fight for lives and our rights. They are something special as are the men and women specially trained to be their handlers. They are "hard-ass" dogs. They have to be. Maybe the guy is a tool though, idk, I haven't seen an episode to see his personality.

River · 02-09-2013, 09:36 PM

If he's a tool, he's a tool with a point. I'm all for spreading the message to only get as much dog as you can handle. It'll keep dogs out of shelters and out of rescues. Or worse, from being put down because something happened that their owners couldn't manage or control.

As long as people don't interpret going to Petco as meaning buying a pup from a pet store.

I think even that guy, if he is a tool, he still wouldn't advocate that.

Adobe4two · 02-10-2013, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRAYGHOST

I watched the first shows, and will continue to watch as military, and, especially police dog training, has always been a big interest for me. Apparently the training that is done for the military is for special operations units, not the regular training that is done at Lackland AFB.

The show's title "Alpha Dogs" means a lot to people interested in real working dogs, as opposed to show/obedience dogs. Not trying to hurt feelings (I have owned show/obedience dogs), but my one real "Alpha" dog, a male Rottweiler, was in another catagory,

As another individual who has a strong interest in Military & Law Enforcement training, Schutzhund, S&R and such... And who prefers working dogs and activities over the breed ring and companion circut... I still prefer to get the information from people who show an honest, objective approach to dogs, training and work... Rather than from men who get into it to pump their ego and use it as a phallic extention of their male ego. Which, unfortunately, is the impression I get from Alpha Dogs. If I'm going to be rolling my eyes every few minutes from the "macho" content, its going to detract from the educational DOG content of the show. (and the dog content is all I'm interested in.)

Also the title "Alpha Dogs" means little to me other than, again, a machisimo reference. I like working dogs because they're impressive, intelligent working animals of great potential. Not because I have some silly notion about Alpha status and bad ass images. I don't need to embrace, promote or idealize a bad ass image to appreciate a good working dog.

Its like Millan on steroids.

River · 02-10-2013, 08:43 AM

I did watch the clips that Nat Geo had online last night. They definitely portray the macho guy image. Arms crossed, sunglasses, explosions, badass dogs. That's probably what's going to 'sell' the show for Nat Geo.

However, I was impressed with their level of dog knowledge. I like watching and learning from people who know dogs and above all, are fair to the dogs they're training. The one thing that stuck out to me was the Mal they were testing for a client. That client wanted the dog to swim, but the trainers figured out pretty quickly that the dog didn't like the water or was afraid of it. So instead of forcing him into the lake, they ended the training session in a positive way and called their boss to tell him what had happened.

I didn't see any evidence of Cesar Milan in that clip. I know it's not the entire episode, and they may have worked out a way to get the Mal to like water. But I also think that if that had been Cesar's show, he would've hauled that Mal into the lake by his collar on the spot and made him swim. Which you know, won't necessarily teach him to be able to work in water.

I don't have cable, and this show hasn't turned up on Hulu yet. I'll have to wait and just watch the clips for now. The dogs on the show are amazing, though. I love GSDs and Mals, and they'd make my day if they ever put a Dutch Shepherd or a Doberman on there. They are just amazing dogs.

Adobe4two · 02-10-2013, 10:23 AM

^ By Milan on steroids, I'm talking about the "Macho" factor. Millan pulls the Macho - Alpha stuff. This is Macho-Alpha on a larger level. I don't doubt there will be some interesting info, but the "image" is going to spoil the show for me by and large, and make it harder to take them seriously ( I have similar sentiments with Pit Bulls & Parolees and Pit Crew for similar reasons.)

River · 02-10-2013, 10:56 AM

Yeah, Adobe, true. I like Pit Bulls and Parolees and suspect I'll like Alpha Dogs too. But I don't have a problem ignoring the macho BS in favor of focusing on the dogs and training. Those personalities are not a turn off for me either. And the TV shows are always sure to blow them out of proportion because that's what will increase ratings. Definitely can see where that would be distracting though, and turn you off of a show, if you can't overlook it.

I can't watch shows like American Idol because I can't get past the sheer cheesy fluff and BS that makes up those shows. It wrecks the show for me.

evade6317 · 03-17-2013, 07:22 PM

I hate to bump a somewhat older thread, but I love that show just because I like seeing real working dogs.

I spent two years in Afghanistan and was privileged to be allowed to assist some of the Belgian dog handlers in caring for their Mals. They were primarily used for explosive detection, but they all had bite training.

I love seeing man and animal work together to accomplish the same job. From using dogs and horses for herding and hunting, dogs for patrol and police work, and even to bird of prey for falconry, I think it is special when that partnership is forged.

Yeah, the show is a little cheesy, but I enjoy seeing it.

honda123 · 03-17-2013, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evade6317

I hate to bump a somewhat older thread, but I love that show just because I like seeing real working dogs.

I spent two years in Afghanistan and was privileged to be allowed to assist some of the Belgian dog handlers in caring for their Mals. They were primarily used for explosive detection, but they all had bite training.

I love seeing man and animal work together to accomplish the same job. From using dogs and horses for herding and hunting, dogs for patrol and police work, and even to bird of prey for falconry, I think it is special when that partnership is forged.

Yeah, the show is a little cheesy, but I enjoy seeing it.

Thank you for your service. I have a long line of military in my lineage going back to the USA 1700's. My family has served in ALL the wars, with the exception of the last two. But, my family is currently serving behing the scenes and in the courts. Bless you and your animals.

evade6317 · 03-19-2013, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honda123

Thank you for your service. I have a long line of military in my lineage going back to the USA 1700's. My family has served in ALL the wars, with the exception of the last two. But, my family is currently serving behing the scenes and in the courts. Bless you and your animals.

Well, I was in the Marines in 97-02, but when I was in Kabul, I was just a money grubbing contractor, lol.

When I was there I chatted up a dog handler on his day off as he was walking around with his Mal. He was impressed with the way I interacted with his dog. It was a very "sharp" dog that would get nippy with people who were not stable with it. Long story short, during the rest of his deployment I was allowed to help bath, feed, and exercise the dog on a few of it's days off. It was a great experience that led me to getting a Doberman for my family.