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post #1 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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Horsemeat in our burgers.

Recently there have been several incidences in the UK and Europe of horsemeat being found in Tesco, Iceland, Lidl, Aldi Beefburgers. (This list is not all encompassing, there are probably others out there but for the sake of expediency I will not even attempt to list them all)

As if this wasn't bad enough Burger King both sides of the pond have admitted to using Horsemeat in their products.

Now Findus Beef Lasagne has been found to contain up to 100% horsemeat.

Now if a person chooses to eat horsemeat then that is their choice, personally speaking I would rather eat dirt than do so but I digress, for someone to find food which they bought labelled as being made of made of BEEF but is in fact laced/made up totally of HORSEMEAT is so wrong it simply leaves me cold.

Now some might say these companies didnt know that the HORSEMEAT was in the burgers etc, however, under English law. 'Ignorance is no defence'.

Morally.
Religeously.
Ethically.

It is a minefield.

Which lead me to wondering.

How would you guys feel if you found your favourite burgers were laced/made up of Horsemeat instead of Beef.

You paid for Beef, you expect to be eating beef. Would you feel violated, robbed, aggrieved, what would your response be?

Would you consider taking out legal action against the manufacturers/retailers?

Would you consider becoming vegetarian?

Would you boycott certain manufacturers?

I would love to hear your opinions.
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post #2 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 03:48 PM
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All I know is I am sick or hearing horse burger jokes every single day LOL!



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post #3 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 03:54 PM
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I'd be pretty ticked.

Not because I'm morally against eating horsemeat, mind you (though I could see how some might be). I just really really want the product that I'm paying for to be the one that I've asked for. If Burger King offered a straight up horse burger? Yeah, I might try it. But keep it out of my beef.

(granted I'm stateside, and this will likely never happen. And I don't REALLY know that I ever actually want to eat horse, either.)

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post #4 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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I'd be pretty ticked.

Not because I'm morally against eating horsemeat, mind you (though I could see how some might be). I just really really want the product that I'm paying for to be the one that I've asked for. If Burger King offered a straight up horse burger? Yeah, I might try it. But keep it out of my beef.

(granted I'm stateside, and this will likely never happen. And I don't REALLY know that I ever actually want to eat horse, either.)
I thought this about the UK, heck the Food Standards Agency are really on top of things such as foods being labelled correctly etc so surely they are on top of what goes into our food, ie, if it is sold as Beef then it should be Beef not horsemeat. But it seems they werent, neither were the companies selling these products, they either maintain they didnt know or when they admit they did they didnt care.
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post #5 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 04:06 PM
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Bait and switch is never appropriate, but especially when it comes to food!


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As if this wasn't bad enough Burger King both sides of the pond have admitted to using Horsemeat in their products.
However, it is my understanding that Burger King did NOT actually serve any products with horsemeat in them - rather that they found samples tainted with horsemeat and promptly quit using ANY meat from that beef supplier. If that's the entirety of the case, your statement here above is incorrect.

Neigh it ain't so: Burger King finds horse meat at European supplier - Jan. 31, 2013

Do you have a more updated source that shows the horsemeat was served to customers?

I'd have more of a problem with a company that didn't bother to inspect its meat than one that found an issue from inspecting it and then rejected that meat.

Last edited by Leliel; 02-07-2013 at 04:08 PM.
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post #6 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 04:17 PM
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meat is becoming very expensive this is one way for suppliers to cover for the rising cost of beef. I do not trust any thing coming from china that i ingest for me or my pets and now this. The term buy local is making more sense!
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post #7 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 05:08 PM
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I love horse meat.

That being said I would still be pissed off as heck to find out my beef hamburger had horse meat mixed into it. It can't be good if they were keeping it from public knowledge.
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post #8 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 05:11 PM
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As a vegetarian I wouldn't eat a burger anyway, but I wouldn't be that offended if a meat patty had a mix of meat, they are like sausages, of course there is probably other junk in there lol. If I do eat meat again, it would only be meat I raised myself or traded with friends and family.


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post #9 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 07:31 PM
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Anyone who does not think of horses as valued companion animals, that's fine, but consider for a moment how you'd feel if you were eating lasagna labeled as a "beef" product, and then found out it was actually dog meat.

That would be how horse folks feel.

But the point is, as someone else already said--false labeling, and bait and switch, just isn't ever appropriate.

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post #10 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 08:20 PM
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I agree...... To those who say they'd have no problem with the horse meat, would you say the same if it were dog meat?

Some people have not had the great pleasure of being touched by a horse, but my horse changed my life more so than any dog has or will, and the bond capable between a horse and rider is something spectacular.
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post #11 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 08:25 PM
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I don't agree with horsemeat personally but lets not forget it is more acceptable other places and this isn't an ethical dilema from that viewpoint(at least not mainly), the main problem here is the mislabeling and lack of "quality control", and the whole "bait and switch" thing

If you bought your ground beef and it had pork in it without you knowing, would you not be just as unhappy?

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post #12 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 08:38 PM
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I don't agree with horsemeat personally but lets not forget it is more acceptable other places and this isn't an ethical dilema from that viewpoint(at least not mainly), the main problem here is the mislabeling and lack of "quality control", and the whole "bait and switch" thing

If you bought your ground beef and it had pork in it without you knowing, would you not be just as unhappy?
Uh, no. I would not be *as* upset, no.

I think most have already pointed out that the real issue is, indeed, the bait and switch but that doesn't mean we aren't human, and that some of the "switches" wouldn't be much more repugnant than others.

Btw, dog meat is more acceptable in other cultures, too, so not sure what the point was, there.

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post #13 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 08:51 PM
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I don't know if you guys think that I don't value horses as pets or just speaking in general but I do see them as companion animals. I just tend to compartmentalize pet horses and meat horses so they're not the same to me.
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post #14 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 08:54 PM
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I don't know if you guys think that I don't value horses as pets or just speaking in general but I do see them as companion animals. I just tend to compartmentalize pet horses and meat horses so they're not the same to me.
See, there is just no way I could ever possibly wrap my head around this. I am honestly sick to my stomach now even thinking about this. Really. There is no difference to me. The horses who get sent to slaughter were not 'bred and raised' to be killed. Not in the least bit are they 'meat horses'.

That's like saying it's ok for the dogs born in shelters to be slaughtered, or the dogs who are dumped at the shelter with problems aren't the same as the dog's you personally own as a pet.
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post #15 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 09:00 PM
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Uh, no. I would not be *as* upset, no.

I think most have already pointed out that the real issue is, indeed, the bait and switch but that doesn't mean we aren't human, and that some of the "switches" wouldn't be much more repugnant than others.

Btw, dog meat is more acceptable in other cultures, too, so not sure what the point was, there.
My point is that it happened in Europe not America, plain and simple and though I'm sure there are people there feel that horses are not meat animals at all, it is offered as a regular meat there (like veal here) and people DO eat it unlike here.

You can argue it how you want, but I think due to the emotional ties that some people (broadspectrum) have to animals that others don't (in the same or other countries), emotions can cloud things.

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post #16 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 09:04 PM
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My point is that it happened in Europe not America, plain and simple and though I'm sure there are people there feel that horses are not meat animals at all, it is offered as a regular meat there (like veal here) and people DO eat it unlike here.

You can argue it how you want, but I think due to the emotional ties that some people (broadspectrum) have to animals that others don't (in the same or other countries), emotions can cloud things.
I understand your point, but this is a dog-loving forum with many horse riders, owners, and lovers. To come on here and talk about how it is ok to eat horses, is just about as rude as it would be for me to talk about how I was eating dobermans the other day.

Just because someone does not have an emotional attachment to said animal does not mean they can not appreciate and be courteous to others' feelings.
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post #17 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 09:06 PM
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I don't know if you guys think that I don't value horses as pets or just speaking in general but I do see them as companion animals. I just tend to compartmentalize pet horses and meat horses so they're not the same to me.
Yeah, I was actually far more okay with respecting your decision to eat horse meat, prior to this post of yours.

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post #18 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 09:08 PM
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See, there is just no way I could ever possibly wrap my head around this. I am honestly sick to my stomach now even thinking about this. Really. There is no difference to me. The horses who get sent to slaughter were not 'bred and raised' to be killed. Not in the least bit are they 'meat horses'.

That's like saying it's ok for the dogs born in shelters to be slaughtered, or the dogs who are dumped at the shelter with problems aren't the same as the dog's you personally own as a pet.
We'll have to agree with disagree with your comparison. I see horses like I see rabbits, chickens, cows, etc.

I've had pet rabbits and I will have pet rabbits again. I love them with all my heart and the only reason I don't have any in my life right now is because I am still mourning the loss of my heart rabbit and it hurts too much to bring a new rabbit in my life right now.

That being said if someone offered to take me rabbit hunting tomorrow I would be totally up for it. I plan on having snakes big enough to eat rabbits. I can see rabbits as a food source. Would I ever feed my pet rabbits to a snake? No. Would I ever eat my pet rabbits? No.
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post #19 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 09:12 PM
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Yeah, I was actually far more okay with respecting your decision to eat horse meat, prior to this post of yours.
Meh, I just see it as cultural difference. I grew up where horse meat was a meat source.
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post #20 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 09:13 PM
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We'll have to agree with disagree with your comparison. I see horses like I see rabbits, chickens, cows, etc.

I've had pet rabbits and I will have pet rabbits again. I love them with all my heart and the only reason I don't have any in my life right now is because I am still mourning the loss of my heart rabbit and it hurts too much to bring a new rabbit in my life right now.

That being said if someone offered to take me rabbit hunting tomorrow I would be totally up for it. I plan on having snakes big enough to eat rabbits. I can see rabbits as a food source. Would I ever feed my pet rabbits to a snake? No. Would I ever eat my pet rabbits? No.
OMG now horses are the same as rabbits? You obviously have never spent time around a horse, owned a horse, etc, so I'm not sure why you think your opinion of the level of companionship for a horse is accurate.

You have never experienced owning a horse, and therefore do not have the same feelings towards a horse as someone who does. Atleast I would admit that I have no idea what type of emotional attachment someone would have to a 'snake' or a 'cheetah' and would therefore respect their feelings towards those animals considering they have actually had EXPERIENCE with them.

Of course if you just see pictures and see horses outside grazing like cows, then maybe you can view them as dumb meat animals.
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post #21 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 09:16 PM
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OMG now horses are the same as rabbits? You obviously have never spent time around a horse, owned a horse, etc, so I'm not sure why you think your opinion of the level of companionship for a horse is accurate.

You have never experienced owning a horse, and therefore do not have the same feelings towards a horse as someone who does. Atleast I would admit that I have no idea what type of emotional attachment someone would have to a 'snake' or a 'cheetah' and would therefore respect their feelings towards those animals considering they have actually had EXPERIENCE with them.

Of course if you just see pictures and see horses outside grazing like cows, then maybe you can view them as dumb meat animals.
I don't see them as dumb meat animals though. I guess I'm either not explaining myself properly or I'm just going to be labeled a monster no matter what I say.
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post #22 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 09:17 PM
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We had a thread a while back with a member who prepared and fed her dogs rabbit meat if I remember correctly and it was a touchy subject as well. Let's try to be objective and civil here too. It would probably be wise to avoid reading this thread if it made one queasy or emotional.

We can't deny that slaughtering horses for export is a pretty large industry in the US and I don't see it stopping any time soon. I think the best we can hope for is that the animals are treated fairly and humanely.
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post #23 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 09:17 PM
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I used to be fairly repulsed by the idea of slaughtering and eating horses. And then I read the story of Buck Brannaman and Sampson the bull, and the very unforgettable role of Buck's father. And that story changed my heart. Not only am I fairly repulsed by the idea of slaughtering and eating horses...I'm generally repulsed by slaughtering and eating any sentient being now.

Just because one may not view or label a species as a companion animal does not necessarily make it any less emotionally or mentally capable than the species fortunate enough to be so labeled. IMO, raising any animal to kill it and eat it isn't exactly a feel good situation no matter what animal's throat is on the line.




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Last edited by brw1982; 02-07-2013 at 09:20 PM.
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post #24 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brw1982 View Post
Just because one may not view or label a species as a companion animal does not necessarily make it any less emotionally or mentally capable than the species fortunate enough to be so labeled. IMO, raising any animal strictly for food isn't exactly a feel good situation no matter what animal's throat is on the line.
I agree with that.
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post #25 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-07-2013, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brw1982 View Post
I used to be fairly repulsed by the idea of slaughtering and eating horses. And then I read the story of Buck Brannaman and Sampson the bull. And that story changed my heart. Not only am I fairly repulsed by the idea of slaughtering and eating horses...I'm generally repulsed by eating any sentient being.

Just because one may not view or label a species as a companion animal does not necessarily make it any less emotionally or mentally capable than the species fortunate enough to be so labeled.
IMO, raising any animal strictly for food isn't exactly a feel good situation no matter what animal's throat is on the line.
One of my friends who owns a large western horse farm also raises dairy cows. One of her cows died while giving birth, and she hand raised the baby. I will never forget running around the paddocks together with the calf chasing us. I had no idea a cow could be so lively and interactive with a human. We would play 'peek a boo' and the little calf would follow us everywhere. Now she is a likely 1200 pound beautiful brindle cow who is out with the 'herd'. But if you are riding horses in the field, and call her name, she comes running to the fence and will give you kisses for treats. I could not agree more with the sentence I bolded.
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