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Old 02-08-2013, 09:15 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RedFawnRising View Post
Okay, bold is mine.



Well, it did stop, with the closure of De Kalb and (blanking on the name of the other facility).

Unless something has recently--very recently--changed, and I'll admit I've tuned it out for a while now, for my own sanity, slaughter is still shut-down in the US, so I am having a hard time seeing it as a "pretty large industry" for export.

Yes, horses can be, and are still sold for slaughter, but they go to Canada or Mexico, and that's a whole other can o' worms.

I also don't think we should "hope for" humane conditions--we need to legislate--and ENFORCE--humane slaughter conditions, for all food animals. I really admire Temple Grandin's work on that front, for one.

Legislation is being passed through now to reverse the ban (within this past year)... like you said animals are being housed and transported to Mexico to be slaughtered and are being done so in extremely appalling conditions. While I don't agree with horses being used for meat I do think reversing the ban it's better than what had been happening previously when it was illegal.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:04 AM   #52 (permalink)
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The worrying thing to my mind is how many folk have eaten these products and they be laced with drugs not considered safe for humans.

If someone is so lapse as to include horsemeat in a beefburger or beef lasagne then I cannot see them testing the meat to see if it is free from Bute and other such drugs.

Oh by the way, Aldi does have some great bargains, I shop there regularly, but the funny thing is, I have never bought my meat from either them or Lidl (both companies can be found here in Spain). Now I am so grateful I didnt.

As for Rabbits, I have to admit I have eaten Rabbit on a few occasions. However it is one of those meats I can honestly say I am not particularly fond of so I only ever eat it when I am given it at peoples houses. (here it is very popular).
I am not talking about a pet rabbit but rather rabbit that has been raised for its meat production even so, I understand this is as abhorrent an idea as eating a dog to some.

I do not eat wild rabbit here because of the disease risk.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:45 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Legislation is being passed through now to reverse the ban (within this past year)... like you said animals are being housed and transported to Mexico to be slaughtered and are being done so in extremely appalling conditions. While I don't agree with horses being used for meat I do think reversing the ban it's better than what had been happening previously when it was illegal.
True the ban was lifted by congress and signed by Obama. Obama, Congress restore horse-slaughter industry - Washington Times Per my understanding it is only a matter of time before slaughter resumes in this country. The testing for drugs and medications is the issue now since few horses are raised specifically for meat and many exposed to medications that might be a problem for human consumption.

As a horse lover, owner and occasional breeder, I personally have mixed feelings regarding the lifting of the ban. If I personally could no longer keep a horse that couldnít be fully assured a responsible home, for whatever reason, then I wouldnít hesitate to put the horse down. Moreover, Iíve taken steps to brand every horse Iíve bred for years to help keep any out of bad situations as well as keeping close track of those horses. Unfortunately, not everyone who owns horses has the same feelings or for that matter has resources set aside for those situations. In some areas the cost of euthanasia and disposal can run upwards of $1,000. Right now we have thousands of horses being transported to both Mexico and Canada for slaughter and the process is especially horrific with little to no regulation in Mexico.

Even for horse lovers such as myself there arenít any easy answers, especially in this economy and the high cost of upkeep on horses. Too many horses are falling through the cracks with safety nets already at the limit.

For those opposed to slaughter make certain you go to a breeder who retires their old breeding stock with dignity and places each horse with upmost care, is all I can say. Also make sure the breeder is selectively breeding only great mares to great stallions with a sound reasoning behind each selection, training/conditioning the resulting foals so they are marketable, and is prepared to keep the foals indefinitely if needed with this economy.

In summary in a perfect world the slaughter of horses should not exist, however like in dogs if you try to regulate who can or cannot breed horses then you swallow the good breeders along with the bad. At least in Arabians, registrations are at an all-time low, which in this economy is a good thing in my opinion. Nonetheless, that doesnít address the unwanted hoses currently in the pipeline and wonít for many years.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:10 PM   #54 (permalink)
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This is massive controversy in the UK and its understandable for the fact that foods have been labelled incorrectly! However I think it's shocking that the focus is on the horse meat and not on the animal painkillers in the meat which can cause cancer. I'm not against people eating horse meat if they made that choice, Odin's current dog food is horse and potato, and my vet gave me a list of places I can go to to buy fresh horse meat. But I wouldn't do that as I just wouldn't feel comfortable cooking it up!

Now I can understand why the horse owners on here would be upset at the thought of horses being killed to be eaten but the horses used aren't people's pets, they are raised solely for consumption! Just like cows for beef, and pigs for pork, there is a massive difference whether you choose to see it as that or not. Plus any animal killed for consumption is killed in the most stress free, quick manner as any adrenaline pumped into the meat spoils it. I know vegetarians are against eating meat but there is a reason we have canines and incisors in our mouths. Horse is just another type of meat, it is only as it seems socially unacceptable that I believe there is such an out roar about this issue and for all the articles I have read not one has mentioned any taste quality complaints, plays massively into the placebo effect don't ya think?

Sorry if my bluntness offends anyone in advance!
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:13 PM   #55 (permalink)
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This is massive controversy in the UK and its understandable for the fact that foods have been labelled incorrectly! However I think it's shocking that the focus is on the horse meat and not on the animal painkillers in the meat which can cause cancer. I'm not against people eating horse meat if they made that choice, Odin's current dog food is horse and potato, and my vet gave me a list of places I can go to to buy fresh horse meat. But I wouldn't do that as I just wouldn't feel comfortable cooking it up!

Now I can understand why the horse owners on here would be upset at the thought of horses being killed to be eaten but the horses used aren't people's pets, they are raised solely for consumption! Just like cows for beef, and pigs for pork, there is a massive difference whether you choose to see it as that or not. Plus any animal killed for consumption is killed in the most stress free, quick manner as any adrenaline pumped into the meat spoils it. I know vegetarians are against eating meat but there is a reason we have canines and incisors in our mouths. Horse is just another type of meat, it is only as it seems socially unacceptable that I believe there is such an out roar about this issue and for all the articles I have read not one has mentioned any taste quality complaints, plays massively into the placebo effect don't ya think?

Sorry if my bluntness offends anyone in advance!
Countries like Belgium, Germany, Holland etc do raise horses for the table not the stable, this is very true. However, in the UK we do not, neither do I believe does the USA.

My objection to this debacle is the fact that these foods were labelled as being Beef. People bought them believing they were buying beef, not horsemeat.

Now if someone chooses to eat horsemeat then that is up to them.
If someone chooses to feed their dogs/cats with horsemeat then that is again up to them.

But to find myself eating horsemeat not through choice but through trickery that is what galls me.

Now Aldi has admitted some of their ready made meals have been found to contain horsemeat.

Findus may have had horsemeat in their meals going back as far back as last August.

How far does this scandal go, how far back in time?
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:07 PM   #56 (permalink)
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My paternal grandfather was half Native American (really half, not the "one-sixteenth Cherokee" about seventy-two percent of Americans you talk to seem to claim, hehe).
What, you mean your great great grandma wasn't a Cherokee princess? Lol my husband is Chumash so we laugh at how many "Cherokee princess" great great grandmas there are running around.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:25 PM   #57 (permalink)
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What, you mean your great great grandma wasn't a Cherokee princess? Lol my husband is Chumash so we laugh at how many "Cherokee princess" great great grandmas there are running around.
I grew in Ft. Gibson, OK, only 17 miles from Talequah. Most of the Cherokee I knew (as in, on the tribal rolls) were blue-eyed blondes. My dad, who was very dark complected and had black hair, frequently got asked what tribe he belonged to. Ummm..... none?
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:58 AM   #58 (permalink)
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I grew in Ft. Gibson, OK, only 17 miles from Talequah. Most of the Cherokee I knew (as in, on the tribal rolls) were blue-eyed blondes. My dad, who was very dark complected and had black hair, frequently got asked what tribe he belonged to. Ummm..... none?
Blue-eyed blonde, here, too.

But my grandfx definitely looked NA and my Dad and brother do to some extent.

Grandpa was part of some obscure subset of Choctaw, Odiakkoh. I forget the name except it was long and fairly unpronounceable, for little kid me, anyway. My Dad says he remembers getting bullied over it, as a child.

I remember getting offered some little-known partial scholarship, in college, due to my Native American heritage--and I was stunned and a little weirded out, 'cause how did they get that info?

I was already on academic scholarship, so never pursued it, but remember thinking it was odd to be offered tuition money, simply because of something like that.

Way off topic, sorry.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:56 AM   #59 (permalink)
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I've always found it odd, the way some Americans talk about their heritage I've got a lot of friends and family in the states (we go at least once a year really) and they crack me up with their 'heritage'

Like, over here if youre born in England, you're English. If you're born in France, you're French. If you're born in America, you're American Yet, some of our friends will tell you how they're 1/4 German, 1/Irish, 1/10 some African tribe
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:21 AM   #60 (permalink)
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I try not to think about it... As it is, I have no idea what sort of chemicals, pesticides and GMOs are in the meat, produce and processed goods at the grocery store.

And personally I consider the horse meat less alarming than the incident where the chinese company was using processed GARBAGE as the filling for frozen dumplings.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:29 AM   #61 (permalink)
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I've always found it odd, the way some Americans talk about their heritage I've got a lot of friends and family in the states (we go at least once a year really) and they crack me up with their 'heritage'

Like, over here if youre born in England, you're English. If you're born in France, you're French. If you're born in America, you're American Yet, some of our friends will tell you how they're 1/4 German, 1/Irish, 1/10 some African tribe
There is a variety of reasons for it though. For example, if you asked my Husband his ethnicity, he'd say "Korean-American". Because while he was born in the USA, is an American citizen and spent most of his life in the USA... His mother was born and raised Korean and he was raised in a multi-cultural household. His Dad is american whose family lines are Irish & Dutch, whose original immigrating members are only a couple generations back and still have some influence on family customs, values and traditions.

Myself on the other hand, my heritage is simply "Southern", my nationality is American. My ethnic heritage is basically a pot luck, but its many more generations back and doesn't play an active influence in family customs and traditions in the same way our regional culture does. We do keep track of it though, through our family history and geneaology.

The USA is an ethnic & cultural pot luck. And the history of the family will play a role in how they identify themselves. Heritage & Nationality don't always go hand in hand.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:59 AM   #62 (permalink)
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I try not to think about it... As it is, I have no idea what sort of chemicals, pesticides and GMOs are in the meat, produce and processed goods at the grocery store.

And personally I consider the horse meat less alarming than the incident where the chinese company was using processed GARBAGE as the filling for frozen dumplings.
Yea Gods!

I am so going to stop eating stuff I didnt produce myself.

Trouble is, cows here do not really thrive so I will probably have to foreswear Beef but I can raise chickens, turkeys, geese, ducks etc.

Anyone know any good recipes for burgers made out of the above?
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:15 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Yea Gods!

I am so going to stop eating stuff I didnt produce myself.

Trouble is, cows here do not really thrive so I will probably have to foreswear Beef but I can raise chickens, turkeys, geese, ducks etc.

Anyone know any good recipes for burgers made out of the above?
Do you ever eat veggie burgers? They can be a bit hit and miss, but the ones which are HIT can be really yummy. My other half isn't veggie and he likes the Linda Mcartney burgers as much as real burgers, and they are really low in saturated fat as well as having no GMO or worries about steroids ect. He really doesn't like the Quorn ones or own brand ones.

We have the veggie burgers with blue cheese, lettuce and mushrooms in nice soft white buns and I serve them for my friends when they come over too.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:58 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Horsemeat in our burgers.

I would throw a big time Chatty fit. Misleading people about a consumed product is irresponsible. And putting it in the fine print on the side of a box does not count. Here in the states it is a given that a hamburger or beef burger is made from beef. If a distributed is going to use pork, veal, horse etc then it should be marketed as a pork, veal, or equine burger. False advertising is wrong. When I was a kid, I was told the stew was beef stew only to find out it was deer stew. It tasted wrong to me to begin with, but once I knew I became sick to my stomach.


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Old 02-09-2013, 10:05 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Amelia_ View Post
Do you ever eat veggie burgers? They can be a bit hit and miss, but the ones which are HIT can be really yummy. My other half isn't veggie and he likes the Linda Mcartney burgers as much as real burgers, and they are really low in saturated fat as well as having no GMO or worries about steroids ect. He really doesn't like the Quorn ones or own brand ones.

We have the veggie burgers with blue cheese, lettuce and mushrooms in nice soft white buns and I serve them for my friends when they come over too.
Alas, we do not have such things as Veggie Burgers here, well not in my town we don't, maybe Barcelona might have such luxuries but here, not a chance.
Honestly you can go to 10 restaurants and ask for their Vegetarian option and they look at you and just give you the green peppers with the meat scraped off.

I actually used to quite like the Linda McCartney burgers and sausages and whilst I would never have the will power to give up my meat fixes I could see myself buying them rather than risk eating meat I would rather not partake of. Of course this is rather a moot point however, due to my not being in the UK.



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I would throw a big time Chatty fit. Misleading people about a consumed product is irresponsible. And putting it in the fine print on the side of a box does not count. Here in the states it is a given that a hamburger or beef burger is made from beef. If a distributed is going to use pork, veal, horse etc then it should be marketed as a pork, veal, or equine burger. False advertising is wrong. When I was a kid, I was told the stew was beef stew only to find out it was deer stew. It tasted wrong to me to begin with, but once I knew I became sick to my stomach.


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Thing is, they are labelled as being BEEF, and what is worse some of the items have not simply been laced with another meat, rather they have been found to be made from 100% horsemeat.

As for Venison stew, it is somewhat a strong flavour so I am not surprised you thought it tasted wrong.

When I was growing up we ate Venison (not because we were rich but because it was actually cheaper at that time than beef, go figure) my mum used to call it 'Robin Hood Meat'. Which for some reason made it really cool.
Rabbit was 'Special Chicken'. I didnt think it was that special, but ate it due to not having much choice.

However, now I do and so don't

I have eaten Kangaroo, Ostrich and Crocodile, Gazelle, all of which I have enjoyed due to the novelty, however, these were labelled as being Kangaroo, Ostrich, Crocodile, Gazelle and not labelled as being Beef.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:31 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Yea Gods!

I am so going to stop eating stuff I didnt produce myself.

Trouble is, cows here do not really thrive so I will probably have to foreswear Beef but I can raise chickens, turkeys, geese, ducks etc.

Anyone know any good recipes for burgers made out of the above?
I have a fabulous Turkey Meatloaf recipe, that even kids will eat, love and ask for!
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:38 AM   #67 (permalink)
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I have a fabulous Turkey Meatloaf recipe, that even kids will eat, love and ask for!
I would love to have it if you ever feel so motioned to send it to me. I can let you have my email, just let me know.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:52 PM   #68 (permalink)
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As for Venison stew, it is somewhat a strong flavour so I am not surprised you thought it tasted wrong.

When I was growing up we ate Venison (not because we were rich but because it was actually cheaper at that time than beef, go figure) my mum used to call it 'Robin Hood Meat'. Which for some reason made it really cool.
Completely off-topic but we had venison steaks last night. Yum! We can't buy venison though - it can't be sold here, so you pretty much have to hunt or find a hunter buddy to get it. So it's in a sense, both cheaper than beef (since it was given to us for free) and more expensive (since it can't be bought readily).

That's a whole 'nother ethical argument though - is it more ethical to raise animals straight for food, or have them running free and wild but hunt them? I eat both, obviously, but I think it makes for an interesting thought exercise.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:42 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby'shuman View Post
Yea Gods!

I am so going to stop eating stuff I didnt produce myself.

Trouble is, cows here do not really thrive so I will probably have to foreswear Beef but I can raise chickens, turkeys, geese, ducks etc.

Anyone know any good recipes for burgers made out of the above?
That is so my goal too! We're saving up to buy a nice little plot of land for when Hubby retires. And raise our own livestock, garden and become as self-sufficient as possible. I miss being able to work with livestock, fishing, hunting and picking crops (except cotton, won't do that again if I can help it).

I've seen chicken & Turkey burger recipes before. Also recipes for burgers made from lamb, goat and pork.

And venison burgers are AMAZING.

Regarding the hunting / agriculture ethics... I think Humanely self-raised livestock, or local humanely raised livestock from small independent farmers and hunting are the more ethical options, far more so than purchasing Big-Ag produced meat from grocers.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:35 AM   #70 (permalink)
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My chickens have a large pen in which to run. I have both egg producing and meat producing breeds, (Rhode Island Reds for the eggs, Leghorns for the meat)
I don't have any ducks, geese, turkeys at present, but I have had them and are once again in the pipeline when I can afford to build them a purpose built pen.

Goats are a no no for me, they would eat my trees and I need them to produce oil etc so my plan is to get some sheep. Ideally I would like Wilthshire Horns (they shed their wool so you don't have to shear them) but there are no breeders in Spain, France or anywhere other than UK that I have found and importing them may prove to be too big a headache. But I am researching it.

Pigs are proving to be another headache, we have wild boar roaming our mountain and from all accounts they will break down fences to get to the sows either to mate or to kill so I am trying to work out how to keep them safe in both regards.
Whilst pig crossed with wild boar might produce tasty piglets there is the risk of disease I have to consider, so I really need to do lots of research before I embark down this road.

Also I have to admit, I cannot kill them myself. I have to ask a neighbour to come and do it and he expects payment ie, kills 2 birds, he wants 2 birds for himself. This is just not viable so I am going to have to man up and do it myself.
Don't get me wrong, I know how to do it, have done it in the past when one of my birds had been attacked by a fox and was badly injured and I just couldnt leave it to suffer. But fact is, I just baulk at the idea.

As for is it more ethical to hunt versus rear. In my opinion if the animals are reared ethically then there is no problem. I hate battery farming, my girls all have free roam of a big pen and can scratch around to their hearts content. If I could I would let them roam the whole of my land but due to the local fox population and of course the blooming hunters hereabouts who shoot anything that moves I have to have them penned up, otherwise they would be taking home a chicken for their lunch at my expense. Grrrrr!

Last edited by Toby'shuman; 02-10-2013 at 04:38 AM..
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:03 AM   #71 (permalink)
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I would love to have enough land to keep chickens and goats. Chickens for meat and eggs, and goats for milk. I could learn how to make cheese, too. The goat thread is making me really want to have a goat or three someday. And I'll need a livestock guardian dog too, because of the coyotes. This could wind up being a project best suited for after I retire.

I don't have a problem getting beef from local farms that grass feed. Chickens are harder to find and a lot more expensive than beef. Even the 'cage-free' chickens I find in some of the stores have the 'all vegetarian diet' label on their packaging. Which means they weren't fed a natural diet or allowed to scratch for insects the way chickens should.

We're starting to have a wild boar problem in my state too. It's a shame that a livestock guard dog might not be effective against wild boar. I know further south, they use hog dogs (usually pitties and pit mixes) to hunt the things, and the dogs have to wear kevlar vests to protect themselves from the tusks.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:12 AM   #72 (permalink)
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I would love to have enough land to keep chickens and goats. Chickens for meat and eggs, and goats for milk. I could learn how to make cheese, too. The goat thread is making me really want to have a goat or three someday. And I'll need a livestock guardian dog too, because of the coyotes. This could wind up being a project best suited for after I retire.

I don't have a problem getting beef from local farms that grass feed. Chickens are harder to find and a lot more expensive than beef. Even the 'cage-free' chickens I find in some of the stores have the 'all vegetarian diet' label on their packaging. Which means they weren't fed a natural diet or allowed to scratch for insects the way chickens should.

We're starting to have a wild boar problem in my state too. It's a shame that a livestock guard dog might not be effective against wild boar. I know further south, they use hog dogs (usually pitties and pit mixes) to hunt the things, and the dogs have to wear kevlar vests to protect themselves from the tusks.
The old farmers hereabouts usually have 2 dogs to care for their livestock.

A small dog to round the sheep, keep them under check, (they are not necessarily a sheepdog per say, but any type of dog seems to be used).

A big dog, anything from a Cane Corso, Presa Canario to Spanish Mastif, for the protection of the herd/animals from such as foxes, wild boars, right up to wolves, recently it was reported that wolves that had been released in the wild several hundred miles from my location were making their way over here. EEEEKKKKK!
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:32 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Wolves are awesome. I wouldn't mind living near wolves or having them nearby. But if I have livestock and I live in wolf country, there will be a dog or two to run them off when they show up.

I'm a big fan of Anatolian shepherds for that kind of work. A shorter coated breed wouldn't be good here, it does get cold in the winter. Presas are neat dogs though.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:54 PM   #74 (permalink)
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many things we now eat with pleasure.......will no doubt be removed from our shopping lists if everything is labelled............. with all the product consists of.

this is why i like to eat what i grow.

even though many things about eating what you grow is not what i like to do..........

labelling it is easy......

corn

cow

chicken

beets

etc.

so sad that everything is so...disposable in this world..........paper...........plastic......horses .............
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:05 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Saw this article today

Horse meat – the hardest thing to digest is that it’s your fault. The Making Progress Blues
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