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Old 01-17-2013, 01:05 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Sensitive subject.. Police or anybody. Have questions about protocol for suicides.

This has just really been on my mind. Maybe it just gives me something to fixate on rather than some of the other details. Anyhow, I really want to know how or why this was handled the way it was. I'll try not to get into too much detail as I realize the subject is very sensitive to a lot of people.

My neighbor Saturday afternoon shot himself from the chin upwards to the top of his head with a 357 Magnum in his backyard. First responder was on the scene in under 2 minutes followed by more police and emergency responders. I don't have a timeline per say, was in shock. I'm guestimating they were with him in the backyard for approximately 15 minutes, long enough to ask us questions, wife to change, me to change and get ready to go to hospital. About 5-10 minutes after they arrived the wife asked if I would check to see if he was still alive. They told me he was. After the ambulance left we left for the hospital. We were told immediately that the doctors were assessing him and would speak with us as soon as possible, and that he was alive. We were seated for about 15-20 minutes and met with a family representative who took us to a private room where the doctor met with us to tell us his attempt was successful. The wife specifically asked again if he was alive when he arrived to the hospital and she was told yes, he was.

She was very worried about letting the dogs out back and how she would be able to take care of them so I made the difficult call to my husband to ask if he would pick up the mess. It would have been a while for the crime scene clean-up crew to come and she was anxious knowing it would be there when she got home. My husband went next door and spoke with the police. In their conversation they told him that my neighbor was a DOA. Confused, he even asked for clarification and they confirmed. Not to mention, that while cleaning, it was very obvious there was no way he could have survived a second after the obvious head trauma.

My question is, why in the world did they lie to his wife? She had close friends nearby to drive her to the hospital and offer support. Even with his obvious injury, knowing what kind of gun he used, they had her thinking he just skimmed the top of his head. She was worried about surgery, psychiatric hospitalization, etc., all the way to the hospital and in the waiting room. The surgeon had a 5 minute conversation with us before he even told us that he had succeeded. Why do this to her? So, now we know the truth and I could never, ever, tell her this, but would like to at least know for myself. For some reason this is bothering me very much, almost to the point of fixating on it.

The odd thing is that, while we were about 200 feet away, we never heard this shot. Even more odd, my husband and I both saw him, and neither of us could describe the damage. It's almost like psychologically we were spared the sound or sight.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm very sorry you went through this, I have no information though.

I think you and hubby might benefit from talking with a grief therapist or similar. How traumatic...
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I really feel for what you have all been through. Stuff like that takes quite a bit of de-briefing from...so please do keep talking it through and don't hesitate to see a counseller if no-one else understands and is willing to listen.

I'm only guessing on this as protocols may be different in different areas, but perhaps it has something to do with the legal/official declaration/pronoucment of time of death...or with the intricacies of the definition....in wounds like that it is concievable that the brainstem might still be intact and that basic bodily functions like heartbeat and breathing are still occurring... for a short while.

unfortunately procedural correctness is not always the nicest or empathic way for every situation.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:27 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thank you Cassie. My husband and son have already had a therapy session with a trauma counselor on Monday. I know I will need to see somebody but just being very stubborn. It's a different story when it comes to my baby though. He'll get all the help he needs to get through this stronger than he was before. Right now he is not sleeping and having nightmares. We've been doing homeschool at night and sleeping during the day. It helps that we're pet sitting too. Kind of a therapy to have a shadow on him everywhere he turns.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hbwright View Post
This has just really been on my mind. Maybe it just gives me something to fixate on rather than some of the other details. Anyhow, I really want to know how or why this was handled the way it was. I'll try not to get into too much detail as I realize the subject is very sensitive to a lot of people.

My neighbor Saturday afternoon shot himself from the chin upwards to the top of his head with a 357 Magnum in his backyard. First responder was on the scene in under 2 minutes followed by more police and emergency responders. I don't have a timeline per say, was in shock. I'm guestimating they were with him in the backyard for approximately 15 minutes, long enough to ask us questions, wife to change, me to change and get ready to go to hospital. About 5-10 minutes after they arrived the wife asked if I would check to see if he was still alive. They told me he was. After the ambulance left we left for the hospital. We were told immediately that the doctors were assessing him and would speak with us as soon as possible, and that he was alive. We were seated for about 15-20 minutes and met with a family representative who took us to a private room where the doctor met with us to tell us his attempt was successful. The wife specifically asked again if he was alive when he arrived to the hospital and she was told yes, he was.

She was very worried about letting the dogs out back and how she would be able to take care of them so I made the difficult call to my husband to ask if he would pick up the mess. It would have been a while for the crime scene clean-up crew to come and she was anxious knowing it would be there when she got home. My husband went next door and spoke with the police. In their conversation they told him that my neighbor was a DOA. Confused, he even asked for clarification and they confirmed. Not to mention, that while cleaning, it was very obvious there was no way he could have survived a second after the obvious head trauma.

My question is, why in the world did they lie to his wife? She had close friends nearby to drive her to the hospital and offer support. Even with his obvious injury, knowing what kind of gun he used, they had her thinking he just skimmed the top of his head. She was worried about surgery, psychiatric hospitalization, etc., all the way to the hospital and in the waiting room. The surgeon had a 5 minute conversation with us before he even told us that he had succeeded. Why do this to her? So, now we know the truth and I could never, ever, tell her this, but would like to at least know for myself. For some reason this is bothering me very much, almost to the point of fixating on it.

The odd thing is that, while we were about 200 feet away, we never heard this shot. Even more odd, my husband and I both saw him, and neither of us could describe the damage. It's almost like psychologically we were spared the sound or sight.
I've heard of people surviving gun shot wounds to the head when I interned with the crime scene unit. Wasn't really my thing so I didn't stay long. But one girl tried 3 times and failed.

I don't know how they do it where you're from but where I was if the person was DOA the medical examiner would come and pick up the body unless for some reason they didn't want to actually have to shut down the area because of various reasons so then they would say the person was still alive and have the ambulance transport to the hospital. I can only think of two instances where this happened the speedway during a large race and a school (a kid had a heart attack in the middle of my class. They did close off the classroom they just didn't want to shut down the whole area and building. In short. I'm not sure why they did what they did, maybe he was showing signs of life? I don't know. I'm not familiar with injuries of that sort and I don't look at pictures, not even when I did CSI. I just can't handle it.

I'm very sorry to hear of the loss. My thoughts go out to everyone. I personally was affected by a similar suicide. My father killed himself in that fashion when I was fairly young but it was in a different house than where we lived.




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Old 01-17-2013, 01:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I really feel for what you have all been through. Stuff like that takes quite a bit of de-briefing from...so please do keep talking it through and don't hesitate to see a counseller if no-one else understands and is willing to listen.

I'm only guessing on this as protocols may be different in different areas, but perhaps it has something to do with the legal/official declaration/pronoucment of time of death...or with the intricacies of the definition....in wounds like that it is concievable that the brainstem might still be intact and that basic bodily functions like heartbeat and breathing are still occurring... for a short while.

unfortunately procedural correctness is not always the nicest or empathic way for every situation.
I had thought of that also. They did assure us that he did not feel a thing and I do believe that. I wondered if it was just a technicality and couldn't pronounce him dead until he was pulseless. I can't imagine him having a pulse for that whole time though. The thing that really gets me is how the police assured my husband he was DOA and the doctor point blank told my neighbor he was alive on arrival to the hospital. I just don't see how it is possible for a body to function without a brain for so long after brain death. Maybe brain damage, no way the kind of destruction he had though. So far my neighbor hasn't questioned this but I'm sure it will come to her and she'll have questions.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I've heard of people surviving gun shot wounds to the head when I interned with the crime scene unit. Wasn't really my thing so I didn't stay long. But one girl tried 3 times and failed. Oh my gosh, I just couldn't imagine. We originally thought that he missed and hit the top of his head. Like I said, I was kind of blinded. I looked right at him but didn't see a thing. I just saw him. In actuality, there was severe brain destruction as evidenced by the skull and brain matter that was left over. But that is not to say that his body didn't have some signs of life afterwards.

I don't know how they do it where you're from but where I was if the person was DOA the medical examiner would come and pick up the body unless for some reason they didn't want to actually have to shut down the area because of various reasons so then they would say the person was still alive and have the ambulance transport to the hospital. I can only think of two instances where this happened the speedway during a large race and a school (a kid had a heart attack in the middle of my class. They did close off the classroom they just didn't want to shut down the whole area and building. In short. I'm not sure why they did what they did, maybe he was showing signs of life? I don't know. I'm not familiar with injuries of that sort and I don't look at pictures, not even when I did CSI. I just can't handle it.

I couldn't look at pictures either. I also imagine that death of a child was very traumatic. I'm sorry for the whole class that was there for that. My husband had the thought that maybe there was not a medical examiner available to come to the scene and that is why they transported him. I know they did have the area shut down for a while.

I'm very sorry to hear of the loss. My thoughts go out to everyone. I personally was affected by a similar suicide. My father killed himself in that fashion when I was fairly young but it was in a different house than where we lived.


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I'm speechless. I am so sorry. I do think it was helpful he didn't do it where you lived though. I can assure you that the air is just different here. He was not family, but a close family friend and it almost feels like my house has come to a standstill while the world around us goes on. We live in his childhood home. He moved right next door to his mother, whose house we now live in. I love this house and our yard, but it just feels different. You just feel it all around you, acutely aware of every sound and surroundings.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:32 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Years ago, when I worked in a hospital, I was told that only a doctor has the authority to declare a person dead, so the ambulance folks have to keep working on reviving someone all the way into the E.R. Perhaps something like that accounts for the differences in what you folks were told.

I'm sorry this happened.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:14 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks melbrod, that would explain. I'm hoping that is the case. I'll probably never know for sure but it sounds like it isn't completely unheard of.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:15 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm sorry you had to experience this. Suicide is so selfish, whilst often the person killing themselves sees it as the best way out it leaves behind such heartbreak and trauma I often wonder if they (the suicide) were able to think rationally they would still do it to their loved ones left behind.
I knew someone once who spoke of suicide often, they kept on saying it would be better for all concerned if he did away with himself. Of course it wasn't, it destroyed his family on 3 levels emotionally, physically and financially.

I know of only one way you can get the answers you seek. Ask them of the police and hospital. As this woman's friend you can explain you need to be sure of the facts so that when she asks questions you can help her come to terms with the answers.

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Old 01-17-2013, 08:52 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I would respectfully contradict the notion that suicide is selfish, from the perspective of the person acting on it. We never know what pain is in their head, how long it has been there, and what they have dealt with day in and day out before bringing it to the end. Mental illness has a stigma already; people who commit suicide just can't defend themselves any longer.

I am sorry for you, and your neighbor, and all of you involved. I'm not a forensic and/or crime scene professional, just have a layperson's interest in such things. From the gun you describe and the method.....it does seem unlikely that he was still alive. There are only certain people who can officially declare a death, and even that is dependent on area, and it seems to me that's why that choice was made? I don't know. It seems like a horrible thing for the law enforcement and medical professionals involved to do.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:59 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The odd thing is that, while we were about 200 feet away, we never heard this shot. Even more odd, my husband and I both saw him, and neither of us could describe the damage. It's almost like psychologically we were spared the sound or sight.
I know that this is no where near the same thing, but when I was in high school my family lived near a farm with many barn cats. One of them was my buddy always following me everywhere and was just an awesome little cat. One day our neighbor came over with some bad news letting me know that he had gotten hit by a car. I wanted to go see him and she warned me that it wasn't pretty. For whatever reason all I saw when I looked at him was him curled up like he was sleeping which she told me later was definitely not the case. I think our brain really does try to shield us from things that would do us no good to see.
I'm very sorry for what you had to go through. I hope that time brings you healing and peace.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:07 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Shock does many things to protect us from trauma, including altering our sight, memory, and even feeling physical trauma to the body.

I am very sorry your neighbor, you and your family are having to deal with such a tragedy. It's very sad your neighbor felt there was no alternative other than to end his life.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:31 AM   #14 (permalink)
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This is a bit of a tricky one I must admit. But even if he was DOA of the police I am pretty darn sure it has to be someone in a medical profession or a coroner who can pronounce a person officially dead. The man may well have been alive still when he reached the hospital, I have heard of stories where people have practically blown their heads off but haven't actually killed themselves and then ended up in a PVS, which is a sentence worse then death for the families if you ask me!

The only way you will find out the answers to your questions without going to his wife is to get hold of his records and you won't be allowed access to them. I think this is one of those situations where its best to leave it be and support the man's wife if she needs or wants it and make sure everyone is OK from coming into contact with such a graphic situation. Nobody should ever feel like they have to take their own life but it happens, its such a grey area when people talk about it because of differing views on suicide. I am just sad that this man felt that his problems were that severe that the only out was death.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:02 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerGunlock View Post
I would respectfully contradict the notion that suicide is selfish, from the perspective of the person acting on it. We never know what pain is in their head, how long it has been there, and what they have dealt with day in and day out before bringing it to the end. Mental illness has a stigma already; people who commit suicide just can't defend themselves any longer..
And I respect your view entirely.

When the guy I knew killed himself, he decided to do it in a remote area, it was literally days, close on to a week and a half to be exact before his body was found. His family were going insane with worry, I watched his wife go from a vibrant woman to a hollow shell in the days that followed his disappearance.
Then when he was found, they were not allowed to see him, (he was in too bad a state apparently), rather he was identified by his dental records etc. Which left them upside down, honestly I cannot tell you the number of times his wife and his mother asked the police, 'are you sure, what if someone else had the same dental work'. In the end they did a DNA comparison and it proved to be him.
After the denial, came the guilt. Why they hadn't seen it coming. Why hadn't they stopped him going out that morning, etc, etc.

I watched a happy family, Mum, Wife and 2 kids go through sheer hell and in truth never truly return from its depths.

The insurance company wouldnt pay out, so the financial worries of burying him hit home hard, as did the fact that the mortgage wasn't paid off.

Emotionally those he left behind were left nothing short of wrecks.
Physically they were wrecks, his wife had to go onto sleeping tablets and antidepressants, as did one of their children, a boy of just 12.
Financially, they were left destitute. Their home was repossessed, their car, their bank accounts frozen for weeks.

And you know what the worse thing was? He didnt even leave a note, so they will never know why he did it.

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Old 01-17-2013, 11:06 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Sensitive subject.. Police or anybody. Have questions about protocol for suicides.

hbright,

First let me say wow this sucks, and wanting details is very normal and part of the healing process. You were there and have a right to know, but getting them exactly will be near impossible. That being said I can offer you supposition based on my 20+ years experience as a Paramedic. I will try my best to be as sensitive as possible.

These things can play a role on how or why your neighbor was transported to the hospital and why certain terminology was used:

First off the police would be the first to respond because usually there are more of them and its quicker, but mainly for safety reasons, since a firearm was used. Although they are usually well trained in emergency medical response, some are even EMTs (emergency medical technicians). They often times will secure the scene, make an assessment if possible depending on crowd control (holding family back, getting children away etc.) and pass onto the responding ambulance, unless its blatantly obvious that the patient is dead, without going into much detail, I mean really blatant, then the officer may cancel EMS. This, in my experience isn't something that happens often with a fresh injury just for liability reasons. They may know they are dead, but they don't have the equipment (or malpractice insurance) to make that call, or it may not be protocol in the department. There are also a few other reasons that I will explain.

In most states, if not all, the coroner, medical examiner, or licensed medical doctor determines death and/or time of death. Depending on the state, the type of responder, and the responders protocol (usually written by a doctor that is the EMS's medical director, meaning they are working under his/her medical license), they can determine and decide to "withhold resuscitation". Most states now a paramedic can start to resuscitate (CPR) and then stop without even transporting to the ER.

Why it may of been done in this instant? All I can tell you is what I may have done based on the limited information here. But let me start with this right off the bat. I would rather have a family/friend be upset with me for trying than not. There's a very crass saying we like to think more than use on the pulseless and breathless patient - "Can't kill em". This means why not try to save them if any an inkling of a hope, what's the worse thing that can happen when they are already dead, sounds cold but its quite the opposite.

I have also been known to "lie", lack of a better word, to a family member because I felt the scene wasn't the best place to tell them i.e. children around, scene hectic, person needed to drive, person is a suspect, need the person off scene to figure out what happened, person mentally needs to be in a more controlled environment like a hospital to be told.

Most likely I would say that what really happened was this. Since the injury was restricted to the head only, and the response after the injury was just minutes, then attempting to resuscitate was a very practical move. Calling someone DOA has to be agreed upon by all around, if even one hesitates then the patient gets "worked". Just because he was shot in the head didn't mean he couldn't have been saved......at least long enough to harvest organs. Maybe turn something very tragic into something helpful. Most and best organ donations come from isolated head traumas.

While CPR is being done, drugs are being pushed then technically he is alive. Would I had told the wife that if that were the case in the back of my truck? No, I would have found a way to tell her that technically no he isn't dead, but it isn't looking good, we are doing everything we can. Then I would let the ER do the rest.

Finally on what you saw. On Monday you will be told that not remembering the specifics in a trauma like that is very normal. But you may remember the injury just fine. Many times GSW are not evident right after they happen. .357 have a small entrance wound and a larger exit wound. It can be hours after that swelling starts. So it may have been so minor looking that it is what it was, especially if you didn't see the exit wound.

I hope this helps and wasn't too much information.

Sorry again you had to experience this.

Chris


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Old 01-17-2013, 11:29 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Sensitive subject.. Police or anybody. Have questions about protocol for suicides.

You know I want to say this also.

The police officer telling our husband that was in bad form. He (as we say where I'm from) was talking out of school. He had no right to give out any information, and obviously either wrong information or it was his way of second guessing the ambulance for transporting. Very unprofessional! Very unprofessional on a sensitive situation riddled with already enough unanswered questions, massive amounts of emotions, displaced anger and blame. Unacceptable and reprehensible!


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Old 01-17-2013, 12:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Sorry for your involvement in such a tragic thing. I have no medical/law enforcement opinion, but at times it is a fact that a person can be subject to a lot of trama and still be alive. Many years ago a NYPD officer was attacked by someone with a knife; the officer shot him six times in the head (this was when NYPD officers still carried .38 cal. revolvers loaded with 158 gr. round nose bullets), and the guy was still able to stab the officer.

Maybe your neighbor did have some signs of life left. In any case my prayers are for you, and your family, and for your neighbors family.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:48 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The reason is they would have to leave him there & have the coroner come & it could take hours. We had a guy fall off his horse during a show. He was DOA.. but they said he wasn't. The squad guys said otherwise. show would have been cancelled & they would have to wait for Coroner to come.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerGunlock View Post
I would respectfully contradict the notion that suicide is selfish, from the perspective of the person acting on it. We never know what pain is in their head, how long it has been there, and what they have dealt with day in and day out before bringing it to the end. Mental illness has a stigma already; people who commit suicide just can't defend themselves any longer.

I am sorry for you, and your neighbor, and all of you involved. I'm not a forensic and/or crime scene professional, just have a layperson's interest in such things. From the gun you describe and the method.....it does seem unlikely that he was still alive. There are only certain people who can officially declare a death, and even that is dependent on area, and it seems to me that's why that choice was made? I don't know. It seems like a horrible thing for the law enforcement and medical professionals involved to do.
First, hbw, I am so sorry for everyone's trauma and grief.

I'm also so very glad no one else was hurt, during this tragedy. Especially when firearms are involved--well, just so scary, and glad this fella only physically harmed himself, and no one else.

Ginger, thank you for saying that, about suicide. Having worked in the mental health field quite long enough to have interacted with many people this ill--it really bothers me when some humans blame the victim.

This person was *fatally ill* and it's being painted as a character flaw, which just leaves me shaking my head.

If someone dies in a diabetic coma, they aren't called selfish. If someone has a heart attack and dies suddenly, right in front of family and friends, they are not called selfish.

Few people criticize the terminally ill cancer patient who--unable to deal with pain that is horrific and can't be medically controlled, wishes to go ahead and end their own suffering.

Somehow, though, when it's mental anguish that is causing such horrific, unending pain...they are selfish.

Look, any generalizations are apt to be simplistic, but I do wish folks would THINK before saying such things.

I have no idea why hbwright's neighbor came to this sad end, really, but it sounds as if he was just...fatally ill.

Are there things mentally ill folks could do, to help heal, and to help prevent such deaths? Well, sure, to some extent.

Just like the diabetic could monitor their glucose levels more assiduously, and the heart disease patient could follow doctor's orders more carefully, and so on and so forth.

Make no mistake, mental illness still bears a stigma, and the patient experiences bigotry, sometimes even after death.

I would like to see folks be kind, when appropriate and possible, to humans who are this sad and anxious--that death seems far better.

Healing vibes to all who surrounded this event, hbw.

I don't know your spiritual beliefs, but perhaps some sort of saging ceremony, a blessing and cleansing, I dunno, something along those lines, might help you guys feel safer and more comfortable around the house and the yard.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:42 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Great post RFR
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:04 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Great post RFR
Agreed, good post. As someone who battled severe depression for years, and often thought about suicide as an alternative to dealing with the constant mental anguish, I can't help but be deeply offended and troubled when people deem suicides selfish.

I could elaborate as to why...but I think RFR said enough. And I don't want to hijack this thread.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:14 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm very sorry to hear about that.

From what you described- the chin to the top of the head- he still could have had a pulse when the EMS crew got there. At least where I am, our protocol is to start resuscitation if there are any life signs. Someone can survive for a time after an injury like the one you described. If I had to guess, without having been on the call myself, it's that he did have a pulse at the scene and that's why. Also, even if the person has sustained an obviously fatal injury, sometimes efforts will still be made if there's family members there. We don't have to start resuscitation if the injury is the type that has been obviously fatal. But sometimes we will. For the family members, you know? That way, they know that everything that can be done, was done, and seeing that might help them heal later. Also, like Calamity said, if the patient is an organ donor, those efforts will help keep the organs viable until you can get the patient to a hospital.

I hope that you all are okay, and yes, counseling is a good idea. It's difficult to talk to counselors, I hate doing it at the time, but you know, it helps. Sitting on things like this will hurt in the long run. Suicides are incredibly hard to deal with. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:20 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I apologise if my saying suicide is selfish offended anyone.

Perhaps my choice of words left something to be desired. However, I feel it necessary to say, that the guy I knew who killed himself hurt his family in so deep a way it left me speechless and I guess a little bit angry. Hell, very angry. His family went through hell because of what he did and fact is their torment continues to this day.
What drove him to kill himself, I do not know.
Financially he was solvent. (although he did have a mortgage and a car loan, but nothing he couldnt pay).
Physically there was no illness to push him beyond the point of endurance.
Emotionally, well obviously something was not right, but no one and I repeat no one had an inkling he was so distressed or whatever you wish to call it that he would take his own life.
He left no note, no words were said, infact he left the house saying to his wife he would be 'gone a couple of hours tops'.

Days later he was found.

I am fully aware how folk treat those who have mental health issues. My hubby is suffering from PTSD exascerbated by severe clinical depression. Our friends have all but abandoned us, no one wants to be in his presence as if he is contagious. Doctors here are more inclined to simply give him pills to dope him up rather than to try and treat him.

Again, I apologise for my choice of words, I never intended it to offend anyone.

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Old 01-17-2013, 03:37 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Sensitive subject.. Police or anybody. Have questions about protocol for suicides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby'shuman View Post
I apologise if my saying suicide is selfish offended anyone.

Perhaps my choice of words left something to be desired. However, I feel it necessary to say, that the guy I knew who killed himself hurt his family in so deep a way it left me speechless and I guess a little bit angry. Hell, very angry. His family went through hell because of what he did and fact is their torment continues to this day.
What drove him to kill himself, I do not know.
Financially he was more than solvent.
Physically there was no illness to push him beyond the point of endurance.
Emotionally, well obviously something was not right, but no one and I repeat no one had an inkling he was so distressed or whatever you wish to call it that he would take his own life.
He left no note, no words were said, infact he left the house saying to his wife he would be 'gone a couple of hours tops'.

Days later he was found.

I am fully aware how folk treat those who have mental health issues. My hubby is suffering from PTSD exascerbated by severe clinical depression. Our friends have all but abandoned us, no one wants to be in his presence as if he is contagious. Doctors here are more inclined to simply give him pills to dope him up rather than to try and treat him.

Again, I apologise for my choice of words, I never intended it to offend anyone.
I knew what you meant Darlin! I think that what they are saying is that the patient either isn't thinking or looks at it as the most selfless thing to do. They feel their loves ones would be better off without them. The "selfish" statement was used years ago as a crisis statement to try and talk someone out of it. So as the ones left might feel it was selfish, the patient most likely felt anything but.

May peace be found by you and yours


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The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to CalamitysHuckleberry For This Useful Post:
Australdi (01-17-2013), hbwright (01-18-2013), melbrod (01-17-2013), Toby'shuman (01-17-2013)
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