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Old 01-03-2013, 04:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Oh No - Woman raped at park I go to.

Just heard on our news that a woman was raped on New Years Eve while jogging at the city park I go to. It is not a dog park, but a real nice city park with miles of paved trails and a golf frisbee area. I have been walking Max there everyday since he was a puppy. Close to 5 years now.
Do you think I am safe with a Doberman with me? I am a single female and I go there daily with my 2 dogs.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'd at least carry some mace as well.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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A doberman is a deterrent but not a sure thing. Anything less than shooting the SOB when he makes a run at you is not going to guarantee your safety. Even pepper spray is not a safe bet.

Sadly, a woman is not safe anywhere.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I thhink your dogs are a deterrent. are they agggressive? Helps if they at least growl is a stranger approaches. pros and cons to aggressive dogs obviously.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Pepper spray, stun gun. I carry a tazer on me at all times. Plus a Doberman might scare someone away... Make them think twice


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Old 01-03-2013, 05:16 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Pepper spray, stun gun. I carry a tazer on me at all times. Plus a Doberman might scare someone away... Make them think twice


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Guess I need to get pepper spray. The police said it was 2 young males (early twenties) who jumped her from behind the bushes. They hit her on the head with something and knocked her out.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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That's really scary

Walking 2 dogs is certainly a deterrent, but I agree that getting pepper spray or something is a very good idea. Carry your phone, be aware of your surroundings, etc.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I hear lots of stories about these on the news... Usually women who are victims, particularly jogging, tend to be wearing earphones while on the run. I think it was possible that the woman who was raped there could have had ear phones in, it's common to see people listening to music as they're on the go, so she may have no heard them (I'm not sure how the park is like you've mentioned). I've had many officers and adults tell me to never wear ear phones if I'm alone at night, or even in places that isn't public and just myself. You're increasing your chances to fall into victim if you can't hear them.

Although I've never owned a doberman myself, I've watched a few for close friends. My closest friend had dobermans her whole life and she never had an issue with people. I walked two of her dobermans at night and no one even bothered to come near me; even though none of their ears were cropped. Some man even came up to me, at a distance, asking if those dogs were even safe to be around. I can't guarantee but you could say you're decreasing your chances of being a victim not only because you have a doberman, but two dogs. I wouldn't necessarily say you would be safe, but you could be decreasing your chances compared to that woman at the park... Such a shame of what those two men have done to an innocent lady. I'd keep pepper spray just in case; you're never too careful in those situations.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
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How awful.

Unfortunately if someone attacks you from behind there is not much you can do with a pepper spray or tazer.
For one thing you have to have it handy in order to use it and whilst I do not know the law in the US, I would have thought walking around with either in your hand might be considered a bit dodgy.
That is not to say they don't have their place, they do.

But so do self defence classes.
If someone grabs you from behind you will know how to fight them off, give yourself time and space to get away.

As for 'are you safe' if you have a Doberman with you?

Most would be attackers I think would go for the lone jogger, not the woman with a Dobe, however, they are not foolproof.

So in my opinion you need protect yourself as best you can, anyway you can. And one way you can do that is not to walk in the park when it is dark or when you are the only person there. And be aware of your surroundings, don't go into secluded areas, don't pass down walkways where there is undergrowth where someone might hide.

Stay safe.

Last edited by Toby'shuman; 01-03-2013 at 05:39 PM..
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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To some people there may be nothing more scary than a doberman huffing air on a stretched leash after dark... unless the bad guys day job is a fed ex or ups driver nothing deters these guys!
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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To some people there may be nothing more scary than a doberman huffing air on a stretched leash after dark... unless the bad guys day job is a fed ex or ups driver nothing deters these guys!
Omg that is totally Coco at night when we are out walking and a jogger comes up behind us. She is very hyper vigilant and reactive at night when people come running up behind us. She swings around in front of me and the jogger and starts "huffing and puffing". The joggers always apologize for running up to us lol.

Now I live in the suburbs which is practically crime free so fortunately I have not had to worry about something like this. It would be a scary thing to encounter this tragedy in your own neighbourhood. I always have my cell phone with me. If you are able to carry mace or pepper spray that would seem like a good idea. I also have taken a few self defence classes because I work sometimes with hostile clients (CPS) and go into their homes.

You have to always be aware of your surroundings and pay attention to the signals your dogs are giving you. I truly believe they are very good judges of characters about people. Stay safe!
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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keep your head on a swivel when you're out and about - you should do this anyway, but be hyper vigilant when in this park, at least for awhile. pay attention to ALL the people you see. don't walk past bushes you can't see through/over/around. invest in a gun, if you're comfortable with that (and get high-stress training!!). if not, get GOOD pepper spray - i highly recommend Kimber Pepper Blasters (can be found on Amazon), as these are NOT aerosol and have minimal blowback. and get training to use it properly. no matter what you might carry to protect yourself, get trained in proper use.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Omg that is totally Coco at night when we are out walking and a jogger comes up behind us. She is very hyper vigilant and reactive at night when people come running up behind us. She swings around in front of me and the jogger and starts "huffing and puffing". The joggers always apologize for running up to us lol.

Now I live in the suburbs which is practically crime free so fortunately I have not had to worry about something like this. It would be a scary thing to encounter this tragedy in your own neighbourhood. I always have my cell phone with me. If you are able to carry mace or pepper spray that would seem like a good idea. I also have taken a few self defence classes because I work sometimes with hostile clients (CPS) and go into their homes.

You have to always be aware of your surroundings and pay attention to the signals your dogs are giving you. I truly believe they are very good judges of characters about people. Stay safe!
Hey, me too, on the CPS cases. And why is it we always seem to get there, before the cops?

I will ditto all these suggestions, as well.

Very good self-defense classes--and take them until this stuff is muscle memory.

Be vigilant and confident in demeanor, and make a plan in your head in advance, as to how you'd react if someone dared to try to pick you as a victim. Try to have the attitude that, you might stub a finger or toe or get a few bruises in the self-defense-and-flee process, but creep will have MAJOR regrets for trying to assault you.

The dogs will be a deterrent, but as said above--more importantly, they are an alarm system for you.

My George (not a Dobe, btw) is super social and friendly as a rule. Let me tell you, one night at the park, as dark caught us, he puffed all up and got super focused on a fella quite a distance away, and across a busy road.

I kept my eye on that guy, did not lose track of him as he crossed the road and entered the park, turning onto the same path I was on.

George ended up putting himself behind me as guy came quickly up on us--he growled with serious intent, and so did I--with my eyes. I made sure to make eye contact and let dude know he might want to take anything unsavory he might have in mind, elsewhere.

I never discount a good stable dog's "read" of someone. More importantly, I felt confident in my preparedness and self-defense skills.

If the worst is going to happen, meaning someone who cares nothing for their own safety, and is armed or is part of a group--well, you can't live your life in prison, fearing that, but for most predators, all the steps above will work.

Take a friend with you to self-defense class and keep each other motivated--everyone should know this stuff.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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That's horrible. Do you know what time it happened? I know even in the morning is not safe.

Here, in Japan, not the rapist but perverts are appeared mostly around 3p.m. then around 6 or 7p.m. Their targets are kids and high school girls.

Recently our local newspaper often reported the incidentS in India. The most shocking case was that the couple was attacked: The rapists prepared the bus. Yes, the bus that imitates the local one. Can you believe this? So the couple thought it was the ordinary bus and got into it. Heavily hit by the poles. 6 rapits were arrested. I guess there will be more. The university student female was abandoned on the road and died even she was carried to Singapore to have an emergency operation.
Please take care of youself. Anywhere is dangerous for especially women.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I thhink your dogs are a deterrent. are they agggressive? Helps if they at least growl is a stranger approaches. pros and cons to aggressive dogs obviously.
A Doberman should come wired with protective instincts and be on guard/alert with strangers. Doesn't mean they should flat out go postal on the end of the leash and act rabid, just means they shouldn't want to be best friends with everyone they meet, they should just tolerate them. For me anyways, owning a protection breed that wants to love every stranger they meet is counter-intuitive and I would not desire that in such dog. My Doberman is a certified therapy dog, but you better believe when he is off-duty and I am alone in public with him outside of dog events, he knows when to turn the switch on and face a threat or a sketchy person. Now, would he ever act on those impulses? I don't know, but I definitely take him with me when I am out alone for a deterrent.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:59 AM   #16 (permalink)
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CCW in a Fanny Pack! Always be aware of your surroundings where ever you go. Having a dobe with you is good.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:24 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Sorry, but I have to ask, what is CPS. In the UK those initials mean 'Crown Prosecution Service' but I cannot imagine they mean this in the US.

Many moons ago I was attacked in broad daylight in the middle of my home city. A man came up to me (he was on day release from a local mental hospital) and told me he was going to kiss me. At first I thought it was a joke, but when he suddenly lunged at me I realised it was nothing of the sort.
Now I have done basic self defence and though I was pretty terrified (he was holding something at my throat and threatened to kill me if I didnt kiss him) I reacted. I lifted my knee and hit him hard between the legs, as he scrunched up I then smacked him at the back of the neck with such force it really made a loud cracking sound. As he fell to his knees I spun him round till he was laid out on his back and went for the throat punch, (yes I intended to do him harm at that moment in time) but felt my hand being stopped. A police officer had hold of it, he had been alerted by passersby of the mans threatening behaviour towards me. The police officer quietly told me, 'he's down love, don't do anything more'.
I stopped the punch though I truly did want to punch the guys throat into his spine, and stepped back as the police officer slapped handcuffs onto the man and arrested him for assault.

Now this guy as I have said attacked me in broad daylight, no one came to my aid, the folk who were witness to the assault all said they were too scared to even move, when that guy held what turned out to be a sharpened stick (I thought it was a knife, it sure felt like a knife) against my throat. In those few brief seconds I was totally on my own and had to rely on what my own recognisance to get myself out of trouble.

Hopefully you will never have to use your self defence classes in real life. But one thing is for sure, if you do take them, you won't be so easy to pick on by some nut job intent on doing you harm.

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Old 01-04-2013, 05:54 AM   #18 (permalink)
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CPS usually means Child Protection Services in the US.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elzajpn View Post
That's horrible. Do you know what time it happened? I know even in the morning is not safe.

Here, in Japan, not the rapist but perverts are appeared mostly around 3p.m. then around 6 or 7p.m. Their targets are kids and high school girls.

Recently our local newspaper often reported the incidentS in India. The most shocking case was that the couple was attacked: The rapists prepared the bus. Yes, the bus that imitates the local one. Can you believe this? So the couple thought it was the ordinary bus and got into it. Heavily hit by the poles. 6 rapits were arrested. I guess there will be more. The university student female was abandoned on the road and died even she was carried to Singapore to have an emergency operation.
Please take care of youself. Anywhere is dangerous for especially women.
It happened around 6:30 PM. With the time change, it is already dark at that time.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Did they catch these guys?

I think that if they've been caught you should be fine. The reality is that you don't want to be forever paranoid of every place. Unfortunately, if they haven't then you may want to find somewhere else to go for a couple months.

Most people don't attack others when they have a dog for a couple of reasons. A) They don't know how they will react, and B) It can be a hassle, they're looking for convenience.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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My friend and I were at a dog show and I took 2 of the dobermans out to potty around the building. Izzi the male would not leave my side. There were 2 guys walking and they asked if the dogs were trained and I said don't come close to them. They were headed right for me and Izzi who is 100lbs stood his ground and showed his teeth. I'm in tears thinking about it now but the guys decided they didn't want any trouble and turned their direction. I praised and kissed Izzi . This was in Orlando right at dark and my friend followed me out said she heard Izzi. Needless to say I carry a baseball bat with me now and you never mess with a woman............I'm sorry the woman was attacked from the back.............she needed a doberman to stand guard.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:40 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Yes CPS is child protection services in the US or child welfare services in Canada. They are the same thing. Since you go into clients homes you need to be aware of your surroundings and in tune with the "environment"

Very applicable to when you are out walking your dog in the dark. Women need to be confident when out but not careless. We have been "victims" for long enough so this needs to stop. Our dogs can be good alarms and deterrents to the creeps out there but we need to be strong and prepared.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:00 PM   #23 (permalink)
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That's so awful. Have they increased security since the incident, such as police patrol cars near the park, etc.? Did they catch the person responsible? I would be extremely careful. Usually with a doberman, people tend to not mess with you, but someone could be carrying a gun. I wouldn't recommend going there when it is dark, whether it's late at night or the wee hours of the morning. Generally following an incident, such as what occurred, in a city park, city will increase patrol and take precautions (maybe even install cameras on light posts, etc.), which thwarts potential perpetrators. Please be careful!
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:17 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Collapsible baton, like the police use. Aim for knees/legs or hands/forearm.

Mace/pepper spray is dumb, and is only temporary...plus the likelihood of getting it on yourself or your dog is high.

Tasers or any other type of shock weapon are better, but still only temporary.

Now a solid, blunt object to the knee...they will never bother anyone else ever again! That is, after surgery (if you're diesel enough to cause that much damage), 6-12 months of therapy to repair what was damaged...you get the picture.

I'd say though the number one most important thing is know your surroundings and don't do something that would put you in harms way. Like, don't be a hot chick, running through a huge park...at night...by yourself. You should be able to do that, but you should also be able to go to school, as a child, and not worry about someone barging in and shooting at everyone.

They also make really loud and annoying 'panic' devices...not sure exactly what they are called, but a push or release of a button or a pull of a cord, etc. will emit a very loud and attention attracting sound.

I could go on, as I am a proponent of stricter laws and penalties. Until this country stops pussyfooting around and makes the juice no where near worth the squeeze...things like this will still continue to happen.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:45 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I would dearly love a collapsible baton, because they're just so cool. And I would be just that affronted if somebody started with me.

Unfortunately, I believe in New York state they're illegal (just like tazers and stun guns but not lockblade knives of certain length), so no baton for me. Your state may vary (I think Texas is pretty permissive with self defense stuff, but I could be wrong or daydreaming).
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