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post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
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For my senior pictures I had my picture taken with my grandmother, who is now deceased. But it will never happen because the professional doesn't have the pictures anymore.
Wow, I find that shocking!! NO professional photog that I know or have worked with (hubby included) EVER destroys their work. Our archives are ridiculous- every single image DH has ever taken, including those prior to the digital age are archived forever. We DO charge a significant fee to go back through non-digital archives to find old images, but for the digitals we usually don't charge anything.

One of the main reasons why DH doesn't sell the digital files from his event shoots is that he is so darned particular about the printing. It also winds up being a hassle if the client wants to reproduce at a store and not at home- they then have to contact us for a release form... Most photo labs easily recognize professional quality images and refuse to repro them w/o releases.. It just winds up not being worth it, so we sell the prints and that's it.

Sadly, I have to agree that many so called professionals are anything but. They had the $$ to buy the equipment but possess none of the skills or training that make a photographer... It takes YEARS, and thousands of hours of shooting and training.
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post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 01:03 PM
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If you want better photos I would approach the photographer before the events. You can show him which dog is yours and when you will be coursing/showing, etc. and he can plan around that vs. just taking a couple snapshots of every dog hoping someone will purchase prints at the end. Part of the reason the cost is high is the equipment is very expensive and he must offset that cost somehow. As for the quality- It can also be very tricky to get worthy images in the middle of the day from a distance where you can't use a flash, especially when you have a black subject. But hey, If you don't like the price or quality you can always just not buy it. Invite a friend along who has a dslr and ask them to take some photos for you instead.
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post #28 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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There are very, very few pictures I print out individually - mainly ones for the local fair photo contest and a portrait of each of my pets.

The vast majority of my photos are getting printed in a photobook from Shutterfly. I've ordered two photobooks now and was very pleased with how they turned out.

Based on this thread it would be a rare exception, it seems, that a profressional photographer would provide a product I am interested in at a price I'm willing to pay.

Dobermama - It was my stepmother who investigated getting a reprint for me as I was living across the state at the time. Perhaps I should contact the photographer myself and confirm what she told me. This photo is definitely one I'd be willing to pay for if possible.


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post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 02:58 PM
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Perhaps I should contact the photographer myself and confirm what she told me. This photo is definitely one I'd be willing to pay for if possible.
That is what I would do- depending on how many years it has been since the photo was taken (and whether it was film or digital) it SHOULD be possible to get reprints. An exception to that were my senior portraits, but only because the photographer died unexpectedly, and his studio was closed. I would expect to pay an archive fee to access the pic- and make sure you have the date of the shoot (and time if possible) when you call to ask. If someone calls us looking for a portrait "oh a few years ago, in the spring, my name is ..." and doesn't have details such as year/month at the minimum we will not just blindly search for it...
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post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 04:51 PM
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I'm a bit cheap but I remember paying $50 just for a photo shoot with my horse and I at a dressage competition, purchasing photos excluded. I believe I was charged around $70 per photo (The photographer's main field was in equine photography). At first I thought it was ridiculous because it was just a photo... Or so I thought. The reason why it cost so much is not only because of the photo, but also because of the equipment, travel, and the time the photographer had to commit as well (Roughly two hours). It all makes sense once you really dig deeper to find out why prices are so high (Although some places are rip offs).

But hey, you get what you pay for on most circumstances. The photos were quite decent as well. I could only purchase three photos though, since that was all that I could afford.

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post #31 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenkouki View Post
If you want better photos I would approach the photographer before the events. You can show him which dog is yours and when you will be coursing/showing, etc. and he can plan around that vs. just taking a couple snapshots of every dog hoping someone will purchase prints at the end.
THIS

A good majority of the time I am already at an event because my dog is showing. If someone grabs me and tells me what breed, ring, time and armband number their dog is then I make a point to be there and primarily shoot only that dog.

Just out of curiosity OP, what price would you be willing to pay for a digital photo? I'm just trying to have a better understanding of where you're coming from is all.

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post #32 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 09:38 PM
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post #33 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 10:24 PM
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I just had Gracie's portrait done by Tom Weigand of The Winning Image while he was at the Springfield shows this weekend. For what he calls Random Ring Shots, he charges $45 for a high resolution digital file emailed the next day. ($20 charge if you want a rush email the same day.) $35 for one 8x10 print, $20 each additional print, for said "Random Ring Shots".

He charges $35 pre-paid and pre-scheduled for him to shoot you in the ring. (His portrait price list says $35-$75 for ringside/on location portraits.) $29 for an 8x10 print or email of a high resolution image. But if you order a print and want the same image emailed to you, he'll only charge $10 for the emailed image.

Portrait packages are different.

You've all seen his work - they're the photographers for the Dobe Nationals every year.
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post #34 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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Willing to Pay

Depends on the photo and purpose.

If it's a photo I feel I could just as well have taken - $10
If it's a non-special photo that's going to be used as part of a photo book - $10
If it's a photo I'm not capable of capturing - $30
If it's a photo I intend to display on the wall - $30
If it's a photo session solely for my benefit - $50
If it's a photo to be used to solicit business - $70

As I previously mentioned I'm talking high-res digital. I have zero interest in receiving only prints.


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post #35 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 12:26 AM
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I believe you get what you pay for. If I see a picture that makes me cry because it is stunning, I usually buy it because I regret it if I don't. I have a beautiful picture of 2 pyrs guarding their sheep (whiteface). I had sold my flock, still had my pyr and it hangs above my desk so I can look at it everyday. It reminds me of what I had once. I paid almost $500. at an auction (National Sheep Show) for it and I have never regretted that once. Unless you are in the business you have no idea what it costs to do business. And I would imagine all that equipment and time costs. And I hear all the time "why I charge so much to groom a dog" It is not a hobby, it has to pay for health insurance, rent (house & business facilities) electricity, water, liability insurance, continuing education, food, car payment etc. I don't begrudge anyone trying to make a living. Trust me, a person won't be in business if they don't do a good job.
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post #36 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 01:45 AM
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I dunno, the people who bust their donkeys and get good composition/in focus and don't yank you around, more power to them. Crappy photos suck and photography done well isn't exactly like sitting in a chaise lounge, heels up w/an umbrella drink in your hand.

Hello twisting in pretzels and putting off that bathroom/coffee break.
I'm poxed w/blurry vision so couldn't take an in focus photo now if my life depended on it.


ETA: to the photog who can develop a little trick and always promise to not have those nasty shadows in indoor photos...that person will be a hot property.
We just saw the faberge exhibit and the lighting in it was incredible, if one can light a freaking egg w/muted light without noticing a light is there someone can figure out how to cure nasty underline/topline shadows.

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post #37 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 07:59 AM Thread Starter
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Regardless of what it costs to run the business, you can ultimately charge only what people are willing to pay. I could run a Lamborghini taxi service, but if no one is willing to pay the fare. . . If other people are willing to pay $45 for a photo that I'm not be willing to - it is what it is. Obviously the photographers are still in business, so someone is willing.

I did think of a specific circumstance where I'd be willing to pay for a professional - Ivan doing a search in the woods. It's difficult to handle the dog and photograph at the same time. It's not as predictable as lure coursing on where the dog will be. (Okay, the dog that ran straight back to the car when it was released might not have been so predictable. ) I don't have the best equipment for action in low light. I don't have the skill to pick the best manual settings for the job. In this circumstance I'm not capable, the photographer would be there solely for my benefit, and depending on the photo it very well could end up framed. So in this instance I'd be willing to pay a "sitting" fee and pay well for the photos.


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post #38 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 08:29 AM
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I can't speak to event photos, but I had a professional come into my house for a session to shoot all of our cats. I paid several hundred dollars for the session fee (in home, for six cats), and then each photo I bought (mounted on wood) was probably around $65. I felt it was well worth the cost. I never could have gotten photos that good of our cats. The digital photo files were just as expensive as the printed versions. I elected not to get digital files because I didn't need them, but it didn't seem unreasonable to me.


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post #39 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
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However, there are many times professionals aren't doing anything to earn that extra buck. My friend's "professional" photographer for her wedding composed pictures in front of a mirror. Guess how those photos turned out?? The professional photographer at N.A.P.W.D.A. that charged me $50 for everything - there were only 5 really good photos out of the 50 some taken.
If they only took 50 photos, they A) don't have proper equipment (faster shutter speed = more images of the same angle = more chance of one of them looking nice) and B) aren't doing their job (it is EMPHASIZED in photography courses to take AS MANY PHOTOS AS POSSIBLE. Only 5% will turn out looking nice, so the more photos you take, the more chance you have of a nice one).

That being said, y'all sound similar to the people who think I should be doing web design for free A proper photographer will pay for photography classes (equipment care, how to properly process photos, design process, and MANY other things - it's typically a hybridized course between graphics design as well as actual photo-taking) This + equipment can equate to thousands of dollars - therefore, the fact they're producing an image for $45 for you isn't all that bad, other than the fact they probably aren't doing touch-ups on the side. Hundreds, though? No, not unless it's for the full event. That's not fair to the customer.

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post #40 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 03:07 PM
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This is our past Amy, photo taken with a 10 y/o Canon G3...expensive in its day, but just point & shoot in auto mode:
- once in a while, all the natural light & background is close to perfect / the photo comes off a treasure of a keeper



Now the recent baby Kelly, photo taken with a new Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1 16MP Camera Body with 14-42mm Zoom Lens.
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1 Camera Body with 14-42mm Lens, Black DMC-GX1KK
- I paid a respected professional once $200 for un-natural photo sitting, for our son / never again...not one good shot, in the whole lot / just a bunch of expensive crap (I could have finally done better myself)
- I will invent good $$ in a decent digital camera first...hardly matters, how many shots I take to get a few good ones



^^^ I framed this photo, to the vertical & horizontal top left corner, of the chain link fence.
- nicely chopping a little hair off top and bottom off hand on bottom (some balance)
- the photo amateur/dobe owner has much free time, on his side...and good photos will come with good equipment


The Differences Between Professional and Amateur Photographers
http://blogs.photopreneur.com/the-di...-photographers
You Have to Get the Job Done.....One of the most important is the commitment. Hobbyists and semi-pros shoot primarily for fun. That means if the weather’s bad, the kids are sick or there’s a big game on the telly, they can leave the camera in the garage and shoot another time.....Professionals don’t get to pick and choose the times they want to take pictures. Whatever the conditions, they have to take the shots and come back with a pile of images that the client can actually use..................

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post #41 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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If they only took 50 photos, they A) don't have proper equipment (faster shutter speed = more images of the same angle = more chance of one of them looking nice) and B) aren't doing their job (it is EMPHASIZED in photography courses to take AS MANY PHOTOS AS POSSIBLE. Only 5% will turn out looking nice, so the more photos you take, the more chance you have of a nice one).
They were the only two photographers at this multi-day, multi-site, national event and had a lot to cover. I don't fault them for the number of pictures taken. In this case are you saying I'm giving them too much credit and should find fault with them? If that's the case it's another mark against the "professional."

Let me emphasize, I understand all all that goes into it - classes, equipment, etc. HOWEVER, my experience is that the end product isn't any better than what I, as an amateur, can produce. As we previously discussed, there are A LOT of "professionals" who shouldn't be given that credit. These are the "professionals" I've encountered.

ETA: The professional at the lure coursing event only took 42 pictures of Ivan's run, so once again, I have yet another reason to be miffed.


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Last edited by lestat1978; 11-28-2012 at 03:59 PM.
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