The Politics Thread...

[VZ-Doberman]

Originally Posted by dobermansrule

Biden: Executive orders, action can be taken on guns - Washington Times

interesting to see how this plays out...

I caught the tail end of it on CNN. Wonder how it gets around the 2nd amendment.

[dobermansrule]

Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman

I caught the tail end of it on CNN. Wonder how it gets around the 2nd amendment.

if he pulls executive order, he obviously doesn't care. Then it needs to be challenged, etc... may end up in the supreme court he is having two terms to shape. will be interesting

[VZ-Doberman]

Originally Posted by dobermansrule

if he pulls executive order, he obviously doesn't care. Then it needs to be challenged, etc... may end up in the supreme court he is having two terms to shape. will be interesting

Congress can veto an executive order. I doubt the Dems will vote down his order.

We have gun laws, they need to be enforced.

Not to change the subject but......

I saw where Illinois (Obamaland) is going to allow illegal aliens to get drivers licenses.......oh wait, they are now referred to as undocumented immigrants.

[dobermansrule]

Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman

Congress can veto an executive order. I doubt the Dems will vote down his order.

We have gun laws, they need to be enforced.

Not to change the subject but......

I saw where Illinois (Obamaland) is going to allow illegal aliens to get drivers licenses.......oh wait, they are now referred to as undocumented immigrants.

media is helping to set the stage... any politician that votes against the order will played as a child killer and lover of violence. We'll see which politicians cave.

re: undocumented immigrants - states will need the additional revenues from fees and taxes...

[melbrod]

Aren't there some gun restrictions already in place in certain areas that have been deemed constitutional? I would bet that O. is just planning on extending those laws across the entire country.
I'm not up on gun laws however.

[VZ-Doberman]

Originally Posted by melbrod

Aren't there some gun restrictions already in place in certain areas that have been deemed constitutional? I would bet that O. is just planning on extending those laws across the entire country.
I'm not up on gun laws however.

I'm not up on them either. I believe his intention (just a guess) is to prohibit selling/trading/transporting/possession/buying certain kinds of guns. I know there are waiting periods for guns while background checks are completed. And the length of the waiting period depends on the type of gun. In Illinois you must have a FOID card to purchase or possess a gun. Delaware I don't think so.

If they get it passed that certain guns are a no no then what happens when they expand the no no list?

[falnfenix]

Originally Posted by melbrod

Aren't there some gun restrictions already in place in certain areas that have been deemed constitutional? I would bet that O. is just planning on extending those laws across the entire country.
I'm not up on gun laws however.

there are federal-level and state-level restrictions on things. depends on what, specifically, you're talking about.

[dobermansrule]

Originally Posted by melbrod

Aren't there some gun restrictions already in place in certain areas that have been deemed constitutional? I would bet that O. is just planning on extending those laws across the entire country.
I'm not up on gun laws however.

it's Federal picking and choosing when to honor States's rights. With regards to state and locality gun restrictions, suddenly, in the Federal view, the constitution is a Federal thing and shant interfere with state rights. But when states want to exercise their rights in other things - well history shows clearly how the Federal government handles that.

[falnfenix]

exactly. see:AWB.

[greenkouki]

[dobermansrule]

Gun Law 101: The National Firearms Act of 1934

[madmyk]

"Shall not be infringed" pretty well sums it up.

MANY of the gun laws on the books currently are in violation of the Constitution/Bill of Rights. That has never stopped (slowed on occasion, but never stopped) the .gov from doing what it wants.

I know there are some "non-gun" people here, and that is your Right, but what do you all think will happen to the remainder of your Rights when the people are disarmed and have no means to fight back?
Ask the Russians, Chinese, Germans, Cubans....well you get the idea.

[CalamitysHuckleberry]

Yet another school shooting :::sigh:::


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[GRAYGHOST]

Biden, the brain trust of the dems., has his anti-gun proposials ready to present to congress. No doubt comrade Obummer will also be issuing executive orders to limit our Constitutional rights.

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so." -Ronald Reagan

[GRAYGHOST]

Originally Posted by CalamitysHuckleberry

Yet another school shooting :::sigh:::


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Another evil act against defenseless school children. This time, I understand, a shotgun was used, not a so called "assault" rifle.

[Dictator]

Obama signs law giving himself, Bush lifetime Secret Service guard | The Ticket - Yahoo! News

[stryker2]

Originally Posted by GRAYGHOST

Another evil act against defenseless school children. This time, I understand, a shotgun was used, not a so called "assault" rifle.

Only if it was a semi-auto shotgun!!!!!!!!!!
Did anybody watch Pierce Morgan last night? He was destroyed by Ben Shapiro! Or should I say he got his A** kicked!!!!!!

COMPLETE: Ben Shapiro CUTS Piers Morgan DOWN - YouTube

[stryker2]

Facts Anti-Gun Advocates Don’t Want You to Know

Read more: Facts Anti-Gun Advocates Don?t Want You to Know

After last summer’s shooting in Aurora, Colorado and last month’s shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut, anti-gun advocates want you to believe that America is a nation infected with violent crimes and murders. They want you to believe that we are one, if not the, most violent nation in the world and that we have to rid the nation of guns to solve the problem.

But what are the real facts?

Amidst the Noise released a video on You Tube that provides some very stunning facts about violent crimes in the US and Great Britain that anti-gun advocates don’t want you to know this.

For instance, according to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports: Crime in the United States Table 1, violent crimes in the US have dropped by nearly 50% in the last twenty years. In 1992, there were 757.7 violent crimes per 100,000 people. In 2011, there were only 386.3 violent crimes per 100,000 people. That’s a reduction of 49%.

In the same Table 1, we also see that there were 9.3 homicides per 100,000 people in 1992 and that number dropped to 4.7 homicides per 100,000 in 2011. That’s a reduction of 49.4% in the homicide rate in the past twenty years.

The politicians also want you to believe that assault rifles are responsible for many of the homicides that occur and that they need to be banned. According to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports: Crime in the United States Table 8, there was a total of 12,664 homicides reported in 2011. Of those, 8,583 were committed with a firearm. Of those, only 323 were committed with a rifle. Now realize that assault rifles are a subset of the 323, which means that they account for less than 3.8% of homicides committed by firearms and less than 2.6% of all homicides.

Have you ever wondered where the highest concentrations of violent crime are? Again turning to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports: Crime in the United States Table 16, we find that the vast majority of violent crimes are occurring in America’s largest cities. In 2011, there were 754.5 violent crimes per 100,000 people in cities with populations of 250,000 or more. Compare that to the national average that year of 386.3 per 100,000 and see where most of the violent crimes are occurring. Incidentally, the locations of this highest violent crime rates also corresponds to the areas that vote Democrat and re-elected Barack Obama.



Now remember that the anti-gun politicians want you to believe that America is far more violent than other nations. So let’s compare our violent crime rate to England and Wales. The Home Office Statistical Bulletin: Crimes Detected in England and Wales 2011/12, reports that there were 762,515 violent crimes in the past year. The population of England is 53,013,000 and the population of Wales is 3,006,400. Do the math and you end up with 1,361.6 violent crimes per 100,000 people. In other words, England and Wales has violent crime rate 3.5 times HIGHER than the US.

The truth is, as the video reveals, that liberal anti-gun politicians don’t want you to know the real facts about guns and violence. If you knew the truth, they wouldn’t have any justifiable reason to try to outlaw and ban guns. All of the air goes out of their anti-gun balloon.

The other truth revealed in the video is that inner-city culture is the real problem for a large percentage of the violent crimes that take place in the US. It’s not guns, it’s the people. And it’s the people who vote for Obama and others that want to ban and outlaw guns. In order to truly reduce violent crimes and deaths by guns, you have to change the culture. Unfortunately, Obama’s politics only help to reinforce the current culture and keep the people trapped in it.

The inner city culture is like a frog in a pot of water. If you place a frog in a pot of hot water, he’ll jump out because the conditions are uncomfortable. Put the same frog in a pot of water at room temperature and it remains there because it is comfortable to it. As the water is heated up, the frog continues to stay in the water because the change is gradual. Eventually the heat kills the frog. Too many of the inner-city people are so comfortable in their misery that they don’t perceive the danger of it. As conditions deteriorate, they continue to remain until eventually they become victims of their own complacency.

On one hand Obama is helping create the problem by enslaving the poor with entitlements. On the other hand, Obama is using the problem to attack conservatives and gun owners. He has no desire or intention of dealing with the real issues, but would rather use them to promote his socialistic agenda and policies which require him to disarm the American people.

Help stop Obama, Feinstein and Bloomberg by sharing these facts with everyone you know and encourage them to do likewise.


Read more: Facts Anti-Gun Advocates Don?t Want You to Know

[madmyk]

Originally Posted by stryker2

Facts Anti-Gun Advocates Don’t Want You to Know

Read more: Facts Anti-Gun Advocates Don?t Want You to Know

After last summer’s shooting in Aurora, Colorado and last month’s shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut, anti-gun advocates want you to believe that America is a nation infected with violent crimes and murders. They want you to believe that we are one, if not the, most violent nation in the world and that we have to rid the nation of guns to solve the problem.

But what are the real facts?

Read more: Facts Anti-Gun Advocates Don?t Want You to Know

Sadly, all the facts in the world will not "make people see" the truth of the matter. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" They have ZERO interest in those truths or facts. It takes one with a truly open mind to be willing to see, and sadly it seems both "sides of the aisle" have far too few with open minds.

[CalamitysHuckleberry]

Originally Posted by GRAYGHOST

Another evil act against defenseless school children. This time, I understand, a shotgun was used, not a so called "assault" rifle.

Ohh well, then by all means continue!


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[River]

For <censored> sake. Seriously? Haven't we already established that rape is rape is rape? And this is an ob-gyn who's supporting the idea that a woman's body can just shut the whole thing down, claiming that because a woman is stressed while she is being raped, it could stop her from ovulating. Thus preventing pregnancy. Because you know, infertile couples are evidence of that, they're infertile because the woman is 'stressed' and not ovulating due to that stress.

Give me a break. At least he had the smarts to point out that if the woman had already ovulated when she was raped, she could still get pregnant. Infertile couples are a bad example, because you are talking months of tension and anguish and stress, on top of the couple's genetic or physical problems that may be preventing pregnancy in the first place. Rape happens fast. To say a woman can get raped and then suddenly put the breaks on ovulation because she was suddenly stressed is BS. There is no comparison to be made between a woman who is raped and an infertile couple.

Original article with quotes is here, if you want to read it.

And people wonder why I value my second amendment rights. As a woman, to hear somebody telling me that if I get raped, my body has ways to shut everything down? An insult. For a doctor to do it? Willfully ignorant. For a potential rapist to read that and think okay, game on? Yeah, actually my body does have a way of shutting things down before I can even be raped. It's called my trigger finger.

[CalamitysHuckleberry]

I can't believe I'm doing this, because I by no means have the education, articulation, or DT seniority needed to debate this. But what I do have is the experience. This will not be fancy, grammatically correct, prophetic, eloquent, or even well written, but here it goes.

As a paramedic I have worked accidents, murders, suicides that have been successful and not so successful (depending on your interpretation of the word successful at the time), all by use of firearms of different types. I have seen justifiable homicides, matricide, patricide, filicides, drive-bys, accidental shootings by Fathers, Mothers, siblings, friends, relatives, and even cops. I have been shot at and I was even one of many intended victims of a ticked off drug addict that called 911 for the mere purpose of killing us by way of a sawed off shot gun that was rigged to go off as soon as we opened his door. Thankfully, where there is one addict you will usually find another to sell him out.

I've seen Memaws and Pepaws shot, Mothers, Fathers, teens, pre-teens, children and even an infant once from a drive by. All races, genders and even transgender. I think you get the picture.

Most paramedics can say the same, sadly. But what's even more sad is that when I started EMS in the mid to late 1980s most couldn't say this. A shooting was an exception, not a rule. But as the years went on shootings increased as did the disregard for human life. What also increased was the intensity of these shootings. I remember bragging to the crew relieving me the following morning how we had a save because a kid lived that was gut shot with a .38. Now you would be hard core to even find this caliber as a back-up at a bookstore.

I can also say this; I have worked a mass shooting. No it wasn't at a school, although I have worked multiple child fatalities, and even though I grieved, and they were somewhat senseless, or even once completely senseless, the piece of equipment used (car, boat, stove) or not used (seat belt, car seat, life jacket), had many great uses when used properly. I mean I couldn't very well want all cars, boats, or stoves to be outlawed.

Just as pro-gunners/pro-NRAers like to muddy the waters and generalize the specifics in order to cloud the. Just because we want some common sense gun control, does not make us anti-gun any more than it makes you pro-killers. One could equate it to calling someone that is pro-choice as pro-abortion.

My Father, Senior Master Sergeant (SMSgt) Jones of the US Air Force served in WWII, Korean War and Vietnam Nam. He was in the Army Air Corp then was one of the first in the Air Force when they were established. He retired from the Air Force as a expert marksman. He was one of two men that were specifically chosen to test and ultimately approve the M16 that has served as "role model" for many of the rifles in question. It wasn't made, designed, tested, or issued to hunt deer or target practice with. It was made to kill as quickly and succinctly and as prolifically as possible. As is most semi-automatic gun, especially with large capacity magazines.

I was raised with guns. I shot guns. I was good at shooting guns. I also had a gun once and choose not to shoot the "noise" I was hearing in the closet upstairs one night while I was alone. Even when that " noise" fell out of the closet which ended up being a 12 year old run away that had been abused and found refuge in the empty duplex next door. When the police showed up for a possible burglary, she climbed into the attic in the closet which attached to the attic door in my closet. I almost shot her with a .357 magnum. I haven't owned a gun sense.

What we are doing isn't working. Our competitive society needs to give way to being the best mental health providers, not reporting ad nauseam on a mass shooting so we can challenge the next ignored sociopath to try and "one up em". How about we spend half the time we have spent debating this issue on a anti-bullying forum? Better yet, when I smoked I had to pay big bucks for a pack of cigarettes because a percentage of the money went to research and education - willing to pay extra for ammunition and guns for that? You want a gun that will shoot off five rounds per second, then those rounds will cost you a thousand dollars a bullet, $995 of it goes to mental health, anti-bullying, level-1 trauma centers. Just a thought.

All I'm saying is, until its your child, family member that was shot, or did the shooting in that mass shooting, or its you that can't get your stretcher to roll through the halls because the wheels keeps getting hung up on empty cartridges, you might want to step back and ask "am I really being reasonable?".

Interesting reading

http://www.commongunsense.com/?m=1

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...-investigation
:::stepping down from soap box:::


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[Odin's_Master]

I think something to look at is why there are so many shootings in the USA. Canada has just as many guns (or more) per capita then the USA, yet basically no mass shootings occur in Canada. In the end, guns don't kill people, people kill people. What is it about the American society that has led to so many mass murders? Why is it always happening in the States? I am not saying this to "flame" Americans in any way, I just want to know what some American DTers think.

[madmyk]

Originally Posted by CalamitysHuckleberry

I can't believe I'm doing this, because I by no means have the education, articulation, or DT seniority needed to debate this. But what I do have is the experience. This will not be fancy, grammatically correct, prophetic, eloquent, or even well written, but here it goes.

As a paramedic I have worked accidents, murders, suicides that have been successful and not so successful (depending on your interpretation of the word successful at the time), all by use of firearms of different types. I have seen justifiable homicides, matricide, patricide, filicides, drive-bys, accidental shootings by Fathers, Mothers, siblings, friends, relatives, and even cops. I have been shot at and I was even one of many intended victims of a ticked off drug addict that called 911 for the mere purpose of killing us by way of a sawed off shot gun that was rigged to go off as soon as we opened his door. Thankfully, where there is one addict you will usually find another to sell him out.

I've seen Memaws and Pepaws shot, Mothers, Fathers, teens, pre-teens, children and even an infant once from a drive by. All races, genders and even transgender. I think you get the picture.

Most paramedics can say the same, sadly. But what's even more sad is that when I started EMS in the mid to late 1980s most couldn't say this. A shooting was an exception, not a rule. But as the years went on shootings increased as did the disregard for human life. What also increased was the intensity of these shootings. I remember bragging to the crew relieving me the following morning how we had a save because a kid lived that was gut shot with a .38. Now you would be hard core to even find this caliber as a back-up at a bookstore.

I can also say this; I have worked a mass shooting. No it wasn't at a school, although I have worked multiple child fatalities, and even though I grieved, and they were somewhat senseless, or even once completely senseless, the piece of equipment used (car, boat, stove) or not used (seat belt, car seat, life jacket), had many great uses when used properly. I mean I couldn't very well want all cars, boats, or stoves to be outlawed.

Just as pro-gunners/pro-NRAers like to muddy the waters and generalize the specifics in order to cloud the. Just because we want some common sense gun control, does not make us anti-gun any more than it makes you pro-killers. One could equate it to calling someone that is pro-choice as pro-abortion.

My Father, Senior Master Sergeant (SMSgt) Jones of the US Air Force served in WWII, Korean War and Vietnam Nam. He was in the Army Air Corp then was one of the first in the Air Force when they were established. He retired from the Air Force as a expert marksman. He was one of two men that were specifically chosen to test and ultimately approve the M16 that has served as "role model" for many of the rifles in question. It wasn't made, designed, tested, or issued to hunt deer or target practice with. It was made to kill as quickly and succinctly and as prolifically as possible. As is most semi-automatic gun, especially with large capacity magazines.

I was raised with guns. I shot guns. I was good at shooting guns. I also had a gun once and choose not to shoot the "noise" I was hearing in the closet upstairs one night while I was alone. Even when that " noise" fell out of the closet which ended up being a 12 year old run away that had been abused and found refuge in the empty duplex next door. When the police showed up for a possible burglary, she climbed into the attic in the closet which attached to the attic door in my closet. I almost shot her with a .357 magnum. I haven't owned a gun sense.

What we are doing isn't working. Our competitive society needs to give way to being the best mental health providers, not reporting ad nauseam on a mass shooting so we can challenge the next ignored sociopath to try and "one up em". How about we spend half the time we have spent debating this issue on a anti-bullying forum? Better yet, when I smoked I had to pay big bucks for a pack of cigarettes because a percentage of the money went to research and education - willing to pay extra for ammunition and guns for that? You want a gun that will shoot off five rounds per second, then those rounds will cost you a thousand dollars a bullet, $995 of it goes to mental health, anti-bullying, level-1 trauma centers. Just a thought.

All I'm saying is, until its your child, family member that was shot, or did the shooting in that mass shooting, or its you that can't get your stretcher to roll through the halls because the wheels keeps getting hung up on empty cartridges, you might want to step back and ask "am I really being reasonable?".

Interesting reading

Common Gunsense A blog to advocate for sensible gun legislation

More Guns, More Mass Shootings?Coincidence? | Mother Jones
:::stepping down from soap box:::


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First off, thank you for being a first responder. Having been in that field previously I know what you do is far from easy, dangerous at times, and usually thankless...so again... Thank You.
I don't want to go "item by item" thru your post with agree/disagree as I am running a bit late at the moment, but I wanted to comment on a couple of things.

You chose NOT to shoot the "intruder" in your home. You acted as a responsible gun owner, Bravo. You did the right thing. Not being there (or being you) can't say how close it was, or how you dealt with the situation, so there will not be any "you should's/should not's", but you did act as a responsible person with a gun...Know your target, know what is beyond that target...etc.
This talk of "common sense" legislation, as it keeps being proposed, will only serve to punish the responsible, honest, legal gun owners. The criminals and the crazies are not going to obey the laws if their mind is set to do harm.

"What we are doing isn't working"
I fully agree. But the agenda being pushed time and time again by the left is not going to provide any significant impact on/against the criminals. Also, placing further restrictions (violations of Rights) on the honest, law abiding, responsible people will serve no good. Not having revolving prison doors and keeping criminals in jail would help. Enforcing the gun laws on the books that actually PUNISH THE CRIMINALS that are caught with, or commit crimes with firearms would help.
Not raising children with any sense of consequence for their actions, not teaching children morals and values, bringing children up with no real parenting isn't working either, and greatly contributes to societies problems.
I know it sound cliche, but it is true:
Forks don't make people fat and pencils don't cause misspelled words.

[CalamitysHuckleberry]

Originally Posted by Odin's_Master

I think something to look at is why there are so many shootings in the USA. Canada has just as many guns (or more) per capita then the USA, yet basically no mass shootings occur in Canada. In the end, guns don't kill people, people kill people. What is it about the American society that has led to so many mass murders? Why is it always happening in the States? I am not saying this to "flame" Americans in any way, I just want to know what some American DTers think.

I think we have more guns. We have more people. We have more mental illness. We have less mental healthcare. Notoriously we are a society that have obtained what we have by way of violence....look at our history and what we did to the Native Americans, African Americans, Women, Japanese Americans, GBLT, and all the other minorities. Not to mention pot is still illegal in most states, lol!


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