The Politics Thread... - Page 134 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums

General Off Topic Chat This forum is to be used to post about Non Doberman topics. Do you want to post about your spouse, car, job? Test your signature? Post here

DobermanTalk.com is the premier Doberman Dog Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-17-2012, 09:57 PM   #3326 (permalink)
Alpha
 
dobermansrule's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,242
Location: +45.5140 -122.9455
Dogs Name: quincy
Dogs Age: 10/8/2006
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobermansrule's Gallery
Thanks: 9,232
Thanked 29,615 Times in 9,584 Posts
dobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by adhahn View Post
Just to further emphasize the point, here is what a skilled dedicated individual can do single shot. Average Joe isn't going to be this fast even with practice, but even taking twice as long as this guy is fast enough to show that restricting semi-auto firearms is not a solution to anything whatsoever.
in the last vid, is the guy actually shooting? looks like he's just racking the slide ejecting shells. Or is like Cowboy shooting where they use super light no recoil loads? and it's like a video I saw of the fastest draw guy... he drew from a holster and shot very accurately but it was like he was having some sort of seizure/flinch type movement. Not very practical in a real gunfight.
dobermansrule is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Feb 2008
The Following User Says Thank You to dobermansrule For This Useful Post:
adhahn (12-18-2012)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-17-2012, 09:59 PM   #3327 (permalink)
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,774
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Kip, Capri
Titles: Kip...PPEW--Practically Perfect in Every Way, DS#15; Capri...PT--Pillow Taxi, DS#15
Dogs Age: 8 years--Dec. 15, 2005, 5 years--Dec. 14, 2008
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 28,544
Thanked 27,542 Times in 8,776 Posts
Images: 6
melbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond repute
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
Seems that with Pizza's contention that prescription drugs cause violence, you could as easily conclude that not having enough (or the proper kind) of prescription drugs causes violence. Which comes first--a person with no recognized violent tendencies (yet) who is medicated and then shows those tendencies overtly...or...a recognition of a violent tendency in a person, who is then medicated, but perhaps not quickly enough to stop the violent tendencies from being acted out?

Treatment of a troubled person should be a multi-pronged approach, starting with the recognition that the person needs help, then the correct diagnosis by a properly trained professional, possibly medication, definitely counseling, but most importantly--monitoring of the person's condition and hospitalization if necessary.

The thing that I see in common with all these cases is that each person is recognized by someone as having a problem, but somehow, nothing is done--the person goes untreated, or is treated ineffectively. They are missed by the system, and that failure turns into more than just their own personal tragedy, but also into tragedy for many others.
__________________
----------------Dragon Slaying Dobermans, Incorporated------------------

-----------------------------------Member #15------------------------------------

melbrod is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2007
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
adhahn (12-18-2012), monicaei (12-17-2012)
Old 12-17-2012, 10:00 PM   #3328 (permalink)
Alpha
 
dobermansrule's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,242
Location: +45.5140 -122.9455
Dogs Name: quincy
Dogs Age: 10/8/2006
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobermansrule's Gallery
Thanks: 9,232
Thanked 29,615 Times in 9,584 Posts
dobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by adhahn View Post
Dr. Piazza has some credibility issues, but he isn't the only one who has brought up the link between prescription drugs and violent behavior. More than likely it is a real, legitimate part of the problem, along with other factors.

I agree that powerful business interests can be difficult to go up against. Seems to me though that the biggest problem is getting the public in general to quit thinking about useless feel-good things like gun-control and focus on finding something that might actually make a difference.
unfortunately, the media knows how to play to the lowest common denominator and politicians are very skilled at playing to public sentiment.
dobermansrule is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Feb 2008
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dobermansrule For This Useful Post:
adhahn (12-18-2012), GRAYGHOST (12-18-2012)
Old 12-17-2012, 10:05 PM   #3329 (permalink)
Alpha
 
adhahn's Avatar
 
Posts: 896
Location: Alaska
Dogs Name: Remy
Titles: BH, IPO1

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit adhahn's Gallery
Thanks: 1,645
Thanked 2,749 Times in 672 Posts
adhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond repute
The counter argument is "Of course they were on prescription drugs- they had mental issues! Imaging how bad they would have been without the drugs!"

Seems to me that this is a serous enough problem that the drug-violence link needs to be thoroughly examined. I recall it was brought up after the 1989 murders in Stockton, but to my knowledge it was never followed up on in any official manner.
__________________
"If there is an afterlife for dogs where they get to do the things they love he ain't off chasing butterflies; he's now some Angel's PPD out there patrolling heavens borders and fighting demons."
adhahn is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jan 2010
Old 12-17-2012, 10:06 PM   #3330 (permalink)
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,774
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Kip, Capri
Titles: Kip...PPEW--Practically Perfect in Every Way, DS#15; Capri...PT--Pillow Taxi, DS#15
Dogs Age: 8 years--Dec. 15, 2005, 5 years--Dec. 14, 2008
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 28,544
Thanked 27,542 Times in 8,776 Posts
Images: 6
melbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond repute
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
Just realized I called the guy Pizza instead of Piazza. Oh well, I'm just too lazy and full of disrespect to edit it.
__________________
----------------Dragon Slaying Dobermans, Incorporated------------------

-----------------------------------Member #15------------------------------------

melbrod is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2007
Old 12-17-2012, 10:06 PM   #3331 (permalink)
Alpha
 
dobermansrule's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,242
Location: +45.5140 -122.9455
Dogs Name: quincy
Dogs Age: 10/8/2006
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobermansrule's Gallery
Thanks: 9,232
Thanked 29,615 Times in 9,584 Posts
dobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
Seems that with Pizza's contention that prescription drugs cause violence, you could as easily conclude that not having enough (or the proper kind) of prescription drugs causes violence. Which comes first--a person with no recognized violent tendencies (yet) who is medicated and then shows those tendencies overtly...or...a recognition of a violent tendency in a person, who is then medicated, but perhaps not quickly enough to stop the violent tendencies from being acted out?

Treatment of a troubled person should be a multi-pronged approach, starting with the recognition that the person needs help, then the correct diagnosis by a properly trained professional, possibly medication, definitely counseling, but most importantly--monitoring of the person's condition and hospitalization if necessary.

The thing that I see in common with all these cases is that each person is recognized by someone as having a problem, but somehow, nothing is done--the person goes untreated, or is treated ineffectively. They are missed by the system, and that failure turns into more than just their own personal tragedy, but also into tragedy for many others.
maybe it's not just 'misses' by the system... maybe the system doesn't really know and is using society as a laboratory. Maybe we give 'the system' more power than they really have. Looking to experts for answers when they don't have any.

What does science really know about human psychology - the working of the brain? Lobotomy was popular at one time - a crude procedure of basically ramming a pick up someone's nose to the brain.. one of the Presidents - Kennedy ? - had a sister incapacitated by a lobotomy. Electric shock. Now pharmaceutical magic pills. what next?
dobermansrule is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Feb 2008
The Following User Says Thank You to dobermansrule For This Useful Post:
adhahn (12-18-2012)
Old 12-17-2012, 10:07 PM   #3332 (permalink)
Alpha
 
dobermansrule's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,242
Location: +45.5140 -122.9455
Dogs Name: quincy
Dogs Age: 10/8/2006
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobermansrule's Gallery
Thanks: 9,232
Thanked 29,615 Times in 9,584 Posts
dobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
Just realized I called the guy Pizza instead of Piazza. Oh well, I'm just too lazy and full of disrespect to edit it.
yeah and now I'm hungry
dobermansrule is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Feb 2008
Old 12-17-2012, 10:14 PM   #3333 (permalink)
Alpha
 
adhahn's Avatar
 
Posts: 896
Location: Alaska
Dogs Name: Remy
Titles: BH, IPO1

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit adhahn's Gallery
Thanks: 1,645
Thanked 2,749 Times in 672 Posts
adhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobermansrule View Post
in the last vid, is the guy actually shooting? looks like he's just racking the slide ejecting shells. Or is like Cowboy shooting where they use super light no recoil loads? and it's like a video I saw of the fastest draw guy... he drew from a holster and shot very accurately but it was like he was having some sort of seizure/flinch type movement. Not very practical in a real gunfight.
The person in the video is a Cowboy Action Shooter. I can't tell if he is shooting or not. Didn't think it mattered since the whole semi-auto argument is about how fast the gun is ready for another shot. It takes time to aim and hit the target regardless of how the firearm mechanically operates.
__________________
"If there is an afterlife for dogs where they get to do the things they love he ain't off chasing butterflies; he's now some Angel's PPD out there patrolling heavens borders and fighting demons."
adhahn is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jan 2010
The Following User Says Thank You to adhahn For This Useful Post:
GRAYGHOST (12-20-2012)
Old 12-17-2012, 10:16 PM   #3334 (permalink)
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,774
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Kip, Capri
Titles: Kip...PPEW--Practically Perfect in Every Way, DS#15; Capri...PT--Pillow Taxi, DS#15
Dogs Age: 8 years--Dec. 15, 2005, 5 years--Dec. 14, 2008
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 28,544
Thanked 27,542 Times in 8,776 Posts
Images: 6
melbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond repute
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
Lobotomy isn't done any more (for treatment of mental illnesses). Electric shock is still used, though in a more specific and controlled way, and is actually quite effective in treating the person who has tried everything else to relieve their severe depression without success.

The practice of medicine has always been experimental, to some extent. Learning how to treat something which has heretofore been untreatable can be a matter of trial and error. It is easy enough to say we shouldn't experiment on new treatments, until you are the person with a painful and incurable mental illness, or aids, or parkinson's syndrome, or any other of those intractable conditions which plague people.
__________________
----------------Dragon Slaying Dobermans, Incorporated------------------

-----------------------------------Member #15------------------------------------

melbrod is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2007
The Following User Says Thank You to melbrod For This Useful Post:
adhahn (12-18-2012)
Old 12-17-2012, 10:18 PM   #3335 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
GulfbeachBum's Avatar
 
Posts: 58
Location: Where Your Momma Told You Not To Go
Dogs Name: Zeus & Angel plus (Duke-RIP) (Baron-RIP) (Digger-RIP) (Knuckles-RIP) (Red Baron-RIP)

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit GulfbeachBum's Gallery
Thanks: 22
Thanked 124 Times in 30 Posts
GulfbeachBum is a name known to allGulfbeachBum is a name known to allGulfbeachBum is a name known to allGulfbeachBum is a name known to allGulfbeachBum is a name known to allGulfbeachBum is a name known to all
“I Am Adam Lanza’s Mother”

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”

“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”

“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

We still don’t know what’s wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he’s in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He’s in a good mood most of the time. But when he’s not, watch out. And it’s impossible to predict what will set him off.

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district’s most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can’t function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, “Look, Mom, I’m really sorry. Can I have video games back today?”

“No way,” I told him. “You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly.”

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. “I’m going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself.”

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.

“Where are you taking me?” he said, suddenly worried. “Where are we going?”

“You know where we are going,” I replied.

“No! You can’t do that to me! You’re sending me to hell! You’re sending me straight to hell!”

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. “Call the police,” I said. “Hurry.”

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn’t escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I’m still stronger than he is, but I won’t be for much longer.

The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—“Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…”

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You’ll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, “I hate you. And I’m going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here.”

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I’ve heard those promises for years. I don’t believe them anymore.

On the intake form, under the question, “What are your expectations for treatment?” I wrote, “I need help.”

And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza’s mother. I am Dylan Klebold’s and Eric Harris’s mother. I am Jason Holmes’s mother. I am Jared Loughner’s mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho’smother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman.Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

When I asked my son’s social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. “If he’s back in the system, they’ll create a paper trail,” he said. “That’s the only way you’re ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you’ve got charges.”

I don’t believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael’s sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn’t deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation’s largest treatment centers in 2011.

No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, “Something must be done.”

I agree that something must be done. It’s time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That’s the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.
GulfbeachBum is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2012
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GulfbeachBum For This Useful Post:
adhahn (12-18-2012), GRAYGHOST (12-18-2012), melbrod (12-17-2012)
Old 12-17-2012, 10:28 PM   #3336 (permalink)
Lil Dog
 
GulfbeachBum's Avatar
 
Posts: 58
Location: Where Your Momma Told You Not To Go
Dogs Name: Zeus & Angel plus (Duke-RIP) (Baron-RIP) (Digger-RIP) (Knuckles-RIP) (Red Baron-RIP)

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit GulfbeachBum's Gallery
Thanks: 22
Thanked 124 Times in 30 Posts
GulfbeachBum is a name known to allGulfbeachBum is a name known to allGulfbeachBum is a name known to allGulfbeachBum is a name known to allGulfbeachBum is a name known to allGulfbeachBum is a name known to all
But this is all the DC crowd sees it as ....


Rahm Emanuel "DON'T WASTE A GOOD CRISIS!" - YouTube
GulfbeachBum is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2012
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GulfbeachBum For This Useful Post:
adhahn (12-18-2012), GRAYGHOST (12-18-2012)
Old 12-17-2012, 10:29 PM   #3337 (permalink)
Alpha
 
dobermansrule's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,242
Location: +45.5140 -122.9455
Dogs Name: quincy
Dogs Age: 10/8/2006
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobermansrule's Gallery
Thanks: 9,232
Thanked 29,615 Times in 9,584 Posts
dobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
Lobotomy isn't done any more (for treatment of mental illnesses). Electric shock is still used, though in a more specific and controlled way, and is actually quite effective in treating the person who has tried everything else to relieve their severe depression without success.

The practice of medicine has always been experimental, to some extent. Learning how to treat something which has heretofore been untreatable can be a matter of trial and error. It is easy enough to say we shouldn't experiment on new treatments, until you are the person with a painful and incurable mental illness, or aids, or parkinson's syndrome, or any other of those intractable conditions which plague people.
exactly. maybe we are in a situation with psych meds where the 99% success rate isn't good enough. Like in commercial flight, brain surgery - would we be happy with 99% if it were our brain or our flight? How many on psych meds - I don't know. I bet 1% of that group is a small number. But it only takes one suffering some side effect or bad effect to do what has happened.

But anyway.. rather than peel that onion, it's easier to scream gun control.
dobermansrule is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Feb 2008
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dobermansrule For This Useful Post:
adhahn (12-18-2012), melbrod (12-17-2012)
Old 12-17-2012, 10:49 PM   #3338 (permalink)
Paralibrarian
 
GingerGunlock's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,736
Location: CNY
Dogs Name: Elka
Titles: NTD
Dogs Age: DOB 5-16-09
Gallery Pics: 1
Visit GingerGunlock's Gallery
Thanks: 20,407
Thanked 10,682 Times in 4,467 Posts
Images: 1
GingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond reputeGingerGunlock has a reputation beyond repute
While I was doing research for my thesis, one of the books I read was called Talking Back to Prozac, and documented several cases of people on Prozac who did things like cook a turkey dinner and then go upstairs and kill themselves. Or perform another normal household task, and then go axe murder their family. Of course this book did not pretend to be neutral on its task (I also read Listening to Prozac, by a different author, and Prozac Nation, which didn't actually talk about Prozac a whole lot). I don't know that enough research has been done on a correlation between psychiatric medication playing a part in an individual's subsequent violent behavior, whether it be self-harm or otherwise.

(I'm holding forth on the Prozac thing because that's what I pretended to know about 8 years ago. I don't feel that people who are clinically depressed tend to be spree killers; they've got a hard enough time putting their socks on [to paraphrase a line from The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression])
__________________
GingerGunlock is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jan 2011
The Following User Says Thank You to GingerGunlock For This Useful Post:
adhahn (12-18-2012)
Old 12-17-2012, 11:05 PM   #3339 (permalink)
Alpha
 
adhahn's Avatar
 
Posts: 896
Location: Alaska
Dogs Name: Remy
Titles: BH, IPO1

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit adhahn's Gallery
Thanks: 1,645
Thanked 2,749 Times in 672 Posts
adhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond repute
I'm not a fan of powerful government, it is a bit scary to consider allowing “the government” (Judge, Doctor, whomever) to decide that you need to be locked up because maybe, possibly, you are a future danger to society.

On the other hand, people with mental issues can be dealt with much more effectively in an institutional environment.

Criminals go to jail. When nut cases commit crimes they become criminals and end up in Jail. With the young men, once incarcerated they figure out real quick that mamma ain't there no more. Sometimes that is all it takes to establish a standard of behavior. With all of them, young and old, they can no longer use recreational drugs or consume alcohol. They no longer get to surf the internet or watch pornography. They don't get to play violent video games or read online rants by other nuts. If they assault an Officer they will likely end up not only on the loosing end of the altercation, but also end up in restraints every time they leave their cell, etc. In short, they are more or less forced to behave in an acceptable manner and they don't get to read/watch/play things that get them wound up and they do not have access to weapons like cars, bombs or guns.

In that kind of highly controlled environment, a large number of nut cases are able to maintain a semblance of normality. Medication can make a difference with some of them too.

Of course Jail is not an appropriate place for non-criminal commitments. Maybe it's time to bring back the huge asylums and institutionalize people with mental problems.

IF we were ever able to bring asylums back, one thing we would have to deal with is the need to forcibly remove kids from their parents. Undoubtedly there are parents who can't imagine their kid is a potential murderer, or parents who are in denial about the kids mental issues, or who feel they can handle the kid. Or parents who want a magic solution instead of sending the kid to an institution.

So who will decide which kid is hauled off???? Is it even acceptable to consider at all???
__________________
"If there is an afterlife for dogs where they get to do the things they love he ain't off chasing butterflies; he's now some Angel's PPD out there patrolling heavens borders and fighting demons."
adhahn is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jan 2010
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to adhahn For This Useful Post:
Asmit (12-17-2012), GRAYGHOST (12-18-2012)
Old 12-17-2012, 11:35 PM   #3340 (permalink)
Alpha
 
stryker2's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,047
Location: Northern Ohio
Dogs Name: Yago and Stryker
Titles: Both CGC and both Spoiled Couch Potatoes
Dogs Age: 4 1/2yrs and 5yrs
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit stryker2's Gallery
Thanks: 99
Thanked 2,294 Times in 1,203 Posts
Images: 2
stryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond repute
Oregon Mall Shooting: Brave Citizen With Concealed Carry May Have Saved Lives

17 December 2012 / 141 Comments




The shooting last week at the mall in Clackamas, Oregon has been overshadowed by the tragedy that unfolded Friday morning at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut. In Oregon two innocent human beings lost their lives, but perhaps the carnage would have been worse if not for Nick Meli, who has a concealed carry permit and was in the mall when the gunman opened fire. Meli pulled his weapon, but did not shoot the gunman because there were bystanders who could have been injured. The gunman saw Meli, an armed citizen, and rather than shoot more innocents he pointed his weapon at himself.


“He was working on his rifle,” said Meli. ”He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side.”

The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.

“As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them,” he said.

Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

“I’m not beating myself up cause I didn’t shoot him,” said Meli. “I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself.”


Read more: Oregon Mall Shooting: Brave Citizen With Concealed Carry May Have Saved Lives :: Minute Men News
stryker2 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Nov 2009
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to stryker2 For This Useful Post:
adhahn (12-18-2012), Dictator (12-18-2012), GRAYGHOST (12-18-2012), monicaei (12-18-2012), ssgharkness020147 (12-18-2012), VZ-Doberman (12-18-2012)
Old 12-18-2012, 12:08 AM   #3341 (permalink)
Alpha
 
dobermansrule's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,242
Location: +45.5140 -122.9455
Dogs Name: quincy
Dogs Age: 10/8/2006
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobermansrule's Gallery
Thanks: 9,232
Thanked 29,615 Times in 9,584 Posts
dobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by stryker2 View Post
Oregon Mall Shooting: Brave Citizen With Concealed Carry May Have Saved Lives

17 December 2012 / 141 Comments




The shooting last week at the mall in Clackamas, Oregon has been overshadowed by the tragedy that unfolded Friday morning at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut. In Oregon two innocent human beings lost their lives, but perhaps the carnage would have been worse if not for Nick Meli, who has a concealed carry permit and was in the mall when the gunman opened fire. Meli pulled his weapon, but did not shoot the gunman because there were bystanders who could have been injured. The gunman saw Meli, an armed citizen, and rather than shoot more innocents he pointed his weapon at himself.


“He was working on his rifle,” said Meli. ”He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side.”

The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.

“As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them,” he said.

Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

“I’m not beating myself up cause I didn’t shoot him,” said Meli. “I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself.”


Read more: Oregon Mall Shooting: Brave Citizen With Concealed Carry May Have Saved Lives :: Minute Men News
not hearing a lot about this in the local news by the way.
dobermansrule is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Feb 2008
The Following User Says Thank You to dobermansrule For This Useful Post:
adhahn (12-18-2012)
Old 12-18-2012, 12:37 AM   #3342 (permalink)
Alpha
 
stryker2's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,047
Location: Northern Ohio
Dogs Name: Yago and Stryker
Titles: Both CGC and both Spoiled Couch Potatoes
Dogs Age: 4 1/2yrs and 5yrs
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit stryker2's Gallery
Thanks: 99
Thanked 2,294 Times in 1,203 Posts
Images: 2
stryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobermansrule View Post
not hearing a lot about this in the local news by the way.
Nope! The mainstream media does not want to report that a CCW holder caused this event to end while talking about gun control.
stryker2 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Nov 2009
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to stryker2 For This Useful Post:
adhahn (12-18-2012), Dictator (12-18-2012), GRAYGHOST (12-18-2012)
Old 12-18-2012, 12:39 AM   #3343 (permalink)
Alpha
 
adhahn's Avatar
 
Posts: 896
Location: Alaska
Dogs Name: Remy
Titles: BH, IPO1

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit adhahn's Gallery
Thanks: 1,645
Thanked 2,749 Times in 672 Posts
adhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond reputeadhahn has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobermansrule View Post
in the last vid, is the guy actually shooting? looks like he's just racking the slide ejecting shells. Or is like Cowboy shooting where they use super light no recoil loads? and it's like a video I saw of the fastest draw guy... he drew from a holster and shot very accurately but it was like he was having some sort of seizure/flinch type movement. Not very practical in a real gunfight.
Here is a better video of single shot shooting. Sorry, wish I would have posted this one in the first place. It's claimed that he's shooting factory 1 1/8 oz loads.

Ejection port loading like this is a standard, commonly taught technique in both LE and civilian circles. The guy in this video is fast. Average Joe while not quite this fast, can certainly keep up a rapid rate of fire loading single shot.


Single shot shotgun shooting
__________________
"If there is an afterlife for dogs where they get to do the things they love he ain't off chasing butterflies; he's now some Angel's PPD out there patrolling heavens borders and fighting demons."

Last edited by adhahn; 12-18-2012 at 12:42 AM..
adhahn is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Jan 2010
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to adhahn For This Useful Post:
dobermansrule (12-18-2012), GRAYGHOST (12-18-2012)
Old 12-18-2012, 07:15 AM   #3344 (permalink)
Eschew Prolixity
 
melbrod's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,774
Location: Colorado
Dogs Name: Kip, Capri
Titles: Kip...PPEW--Practically Perfect in Every Way, DS#15; Capri...PT--Pillow Taxi, DS#15
Dogs Age: 8 years--Dec. 15, 2005, 5 years--Dec. 14, 2008
Gallery Pics: 6
Visit melbrod's Gallery
Thanks: 28,544
Thanked 27,542 Times in 8,776 Posts
Images: 6
melbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond reputemelbrod has a reputation beyond repute
Click here to find out how melbrod became a supporter
Part of the anti-depressant/suicide link appears to be that with the meds, the person's energy level starts rising before their mood improves. They go from being a lethargic miserable lump to a more active mass of pain, but now have the energy to act out their misery.

i don't think that is the whole story though.

It is a reason for close and careful monitoring of a mentally ill person by a well trained professional, and for a better system which will preserve rights but also ensure that appropriate treatment can be delivered promptly as needed.
__________________
----------------Dragon Slaying Dobermans, Incorporated------------------

-----------------------------------Member #15------------------------------------


Last edited by melbrod; 12-18-2012 at 07:21 AM..
melbrod is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Sep 2007
Old 12-18-2012, 07:21 AM   #3345 (permalink)
Alpha
 
monicaei's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,230

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit monicaei's Gallery
Thanks: 5,320
Thanked 9,078 Times in 2,896 Posts
monicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond repute
A 13 yo who shows up in the ER with his legal guardian who states he has threatened physical harm to himself and acting like a maniac should have been admitted and placed on a 72 hour hold. You don't need a "mental hospital" you just need a bed in that hospital and a psych. There is always one on call. I'm shocked any hospital would ever release him same day. That's a malpractice lawsuit waiting to happen. Seriously, that's beyond comprehension.
monicaei is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Aug 2008
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to monicaei For This Useful Post:
GingerGunlock (12-18-2012), melbrod (12-18-2012), ssgharkness020147 (12-18-2012)
Old 12-18-2012, 10:41 AM   #3346 (permalink)
Alpha
 
stryker2's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,047
Location: Northern Ohio
Dogs Name: Yago and Stryker
Titles: Both CGC and both Spoiled Couch Potatoes
Dogs Age: 4 1/2yrs and 5yrs
Gallery Pics: 2
Visit stryker2's Gallery
Thanks: 99
Thanked 2,294 Times in 1,203 Posts
Images: 2
stryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond reputestryker2 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by melbrod View Post
Part of the anti-depressant/suicide link appears to be that with the meds, the person's energy level starts rising before their mood improves. They go from being a lethargic miserable lump to a more active mass of pain, but now have the energy to act out their misery.

i don't think that is the whole story though.

It is a reason for close and careful monitoring of a mentally ill person by a well trained professional, and for a better system which will preserve rights but also ensure that appropriate treatment can be delivered promptly as needed.

I think he was mis-diagnosed and developed another mental illness, given wrong meds.
As far as rights. Should there be any firearms in a house were any family member has a mental illness? I don't think the mother should have taken him to the shooting range and shoot guns. Also all fireams should have been locked in a gun safe.
Banning a certian looking firearm and magzine will not work.

Last edited by stryker2; 12-18-2012 at 10:47 AM..
stryker2 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Nov 2009
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to stryker2 For This Useful Post:
Dictator (12-18-2012), GingerGunlock (12-18-2012), GRAYGHOST (12-18-2012)
Old 12-18-2012, 12:40 PM   #3347 (permalink)
Alpha
 
dobermansrule's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,242
Location: +45.5140 -122.9455
Dogs Name: quincy
Dogs Age: 10/8/2006
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobermansrule's Gallery
Thanks: 9,232
Thanked 29,615 Times in 9,584 Posts
dobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by stryker2 View Post
I think he was mis-diagnosed and developed another mental illness, given wrong meds.
As far as rights. Should there be any firearms in a house were any family member has a mental illness? I don't think the mother should have taken him to the shooting range and shoot guns. Also all fireams should have been locked in a gun safe.
Banning a certian looking firearm and magzine will not work.
unfortuntely we are in a culture of no personal responsibility.... we as a society are pushing it off to the government to solve everything.

I'm sorry, in hindsight based on what I've read, that mother was irresponsible on several counts. Doesn't matter now and does little to calm the families of the victims.
dobermansrule is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Feb 2008
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to dobermansrule For This Useful Post:
brandonfid (12-18-2012), Dictator (12-18-2012), GingerGunlock (12-18-2012), GRAYGHOST (12-18-2012), ssgharkness020147 (12-18-2012), VZ-Doberman (12-18-2012)
Old 12-18-2012, 03:51 PM   #3348 (permalink)
Alpha
 
monicaei's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,230

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit monicaei's Gallery
Thanks: 5,320
Thanked 9,078 Times in 2,896 Posts
monicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond repute
"I am Adam Lanzas Mother" is viral on buzz feed today. Please do the courteous Internet thing and CITE THE SOURCE YOU GET THESE THINGS FROM. Trying to pass it off as your own is simply poor form.


Liza Long is an author, musician, and erstwhile classicist. She is also a single mother of four bright, loved children, one of whom has special needs.

Republished with permission of The Blue Review, a nonprofit startup based at Boise State University, publishing scholarship and journalism on politics, cities and the environment from the Mountain West. The original post can be found here.
monicaei is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Aug 2008
The Following User Says Thank You to monicaei For This Useful Post:
GingerGunlock (12-18-2012)
Old 12-18-2012, 04:12 PM   #3349 (permalink)
Alpha
 
dobermansrule's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,242
Location: +45.5140 -122.9455
Dogs Name: quincy
Dogs Age: 10/8/2006
Gallery Pics: 0
Visit dobermansrule's Gallery
Thanks: 9,232
Thanked 29,615 Times in 9,584 Posts
dobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond reputedobermansrule has a reputation beyond repute
how old is this "Michael" kid? anyone know?
dobermansrule is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Feb 2008
Old 12-18-2012, 04:16 PM   #3350 (permalink)
Alpha
 
monicaei's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,230

Gallery Pics: 0
Visit monicaei's Gallery
Thanks: 5,320
Thanked 9,078 Times in 2,896 Posts
monicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond reputemonicaei has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobermansrule View Post
how old is this "Michael" kid? anyone know?
I THINK it's a fictional piece. It's from from a journal called The Blue Review, part of some social commentary/policy think tank at Boise State. The main character is 13, but the ER part of the story doesn't make sense.
monicaei is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Join Date: Aug 2008
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:08 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0 Beta 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.
@2005 - 2008 DobermanTalk.com
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com