The Politics Thread...

[monicaei]

Originally Posted by blueberry

Roll Call: Voted for Obama and.....
I work, pay my taxes, believe in God and don't/expect a handout! Ever! I am so tired of people saying Obama supports are lazy and don't work.
!

+1000

It's as absurd to think that the 51% of this country that voted democrat are lazy and trying to pull off the biggest heist in history as it is to think all people who voted republican are bigoted members of the American Taliban.

Yes, those people exist on both sides. They arent hard to spot.

It is a dark and sad way to live, believing that approximately half of the people that you live near and work with and interact with daily are REALLY either theiving welfare queens OR racist homophobic religious zealots.

The reality is neither is true. The country had a choice, and chose. This guys plan over that guys plan. It's over, move on... The sun is still shining and we all get up and go to work.

LET THE BUTTHURT GO.

[melbrod]

Originally Posted by monicaei

+1000

It's as absurd to think that the 51% of this country that voted democrat are lazy and trying to pull off the biggest heist in history as it is to think all people who voted republican are bigoted members of the American Taliban.

Yes, those people exist on both sides. It is a dark and sad way to live believing that approximately half of the people that you live near and work with and interact with daily are REALLY either theiving welfare queens OR racist homophobic religious zealots.

The reality is neither is true. The country had a choice, and chose. This guys plan over that guys plan. It's over, move on... The sun is still shining and we all get up and go to work.

LET THE BUTTHURT GO.

You know, I agree that we need to stop looking backward and start rowing together, but I get tired of being told "We won, you lost--now follow OUR agenda."

My candidate lost, but that doesn't mean that I have to give up my goals, ambitions, and ideas about how to accomplish what I think this country needs, and blindly follow the opposing side's philosophy.

Incidentally, that was the first time when I recognized the full arrogance of Obama--the meeting when he looked McCain in the eye as McCain made a suggestion, sneered at him and said "I won".

It is statistically true (or it would be if I could quote my statistics correctly) that 47% of Americans do not pay any income tax. That kind of balance is dangerous, regardless of who these people are, because it means that the people who are actually paying for programs, etc., are not the same people as the ones who are deciding where the tax money goes. Taxes can be raised to a very high level for those who are actually paying taxes, and there is nothing those people can do, because they are outvoted.

Sorta a "no taxation without representation" condition.

[monicaei]

I agree. We all fight for what we believe is right. Keep on keeping on.

Just wish we could ALL stop thinking everyone who isn't with us is actually against us. Or some stereotypical villain out of a cheap B flick comedy. It's just not the case.

Or maybe it is to some people, and they make meds to help with that.

[blueberry]

Originally Posted by melbrod

You know, I agree that we need to stop looking backward and start rowing together, but I get tired of being told "We won, you lost--now follow OUR agenda."

My candidate lost, but that doesn't mean that I have to give up my goals, ambitions, and ideas about how to accomplish what I think this country needs, and blindly follow the opposing side's philosophy.

I also think the entire country needs to move on! I have not been a poor winner and next time (because there will always be a next time) I will not be a poor loser. People on both side have acted poorly! I think it's very dangerous that people on both side have been talking about the world ending if ______ does not win!

BTW I would have no problem paying a little more in taxes IF less money was wasted and spending was cut....including defense. I did vote for Obama both times but in no way do I think he has done everything right.

[monicaei]

Originally Posted by melbrod

It is statistically true (or it would be if I could quote my statistics correctly) that 47% of Americans do not pay any income tax. That kind of balance is dangerous, regardless of who these people are, because it means that the people who are actually paying for programs, etc., are not the same people as the ones who are deciding where the tax money goes. Taxes can be raised to a very high level for those who are actually paying taxes, and there is nothing those people can do, because they are outvoted.

Sorta a "no taxation without representation" condition.

Well, look at it this way... They are the minority, and the minority's rights are voted on by the majority... Sucky system, huh? Having nothing you can do when your liberties are infringed upon by being outvoted.

[dobermansrule]

Originally Posted by melbrod

You know, I agree that we need to stop looking backward and start rowing together, but I get tired of being told "We won, you lost--now follow OUR agenda."

My candidate lost, but that doesn't mean that I have to give up my goals, ambitions, and ideas about how to accomplish what I think this country needs, and blindly follow the opposing side's philosophy.

Incidentally, that was the first time when I recognized the full arrogance of Obama--the meeting when he looked McCain in the eye as McCain made a suggestion, sneered at him and said "I won".

It is statistically true (or it would be if I could quote my statistics correctly) that 47% of Americans do not pay any income tax. That kind of balance is dangerous, regardless of who these people are, because it means that the people who are actually paying for programs, etc., are not the same people as the ones who are deciding where the tax money goes. Taxes can be raised to a very high level for those who are actually paying taxes, and there is nothing those people can do, because they are outvoted.

Sorta a "no taxation without representation" condition.

I really, really hope Obama fails at his agenda. Not just Obama, but the whole 'left' agenda. I will not 'row' to achieve that. Him and Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi succeeding, to me, is bad for the country.

That said, what Congress and past administrations (note, not designating a party) have done to this country is treasonous.

[melbrod]

Addressing Monicaei's post: If you overfish the lake, you will have plenty to eat for a while, but soon the fish will be gone. You will be hungry--and the fish will be extinct.

Folks seem to understand that basic environmental theory (even if they don't use it). Seems like they should be able to understand how it applies to economics.

And I got your sneaky little reference

[dobermansrule]

Originally Posted by monicaei

Well, look at it this way... They are the minority, and the minority's rights are voted on by the majority... Sucky system, huh? Having nothing you can do when your liberties are infringed upon by being outvoted.

it is not a pure majority vote system. We elect representatives to Congress. They pass the laws. Whom they represent is debatable.

[monicaei]

Originally Posted by melbrod

Addressing Monicaei's post: If you overfish the lake, you will have plenty to eat for a while, but soon the fish will be gone. You will be hungry--and the fish will be extinct.

Folks seem to understand that basic environmental theory (even if they don't use it). Seems like they should be able to understand how it applies to economics.

And I got your sneaky little reference

My reference wasn't sneaky. It was pretty straight forward

I fully agree with you. "Overfishing" can't be undone, it becomes a "generational" problem. Once
enough of the stock is tapped out, you hit a critical number that can never recover. Fishery collapses. I hope we aren't there, maybe we are. But we don't just give up, right?


Spend less, make more. That's the only answer, if there is one. It cant be one sided.

That stupid "Grover" pledge doesn't help. What was that about, really?

SPEND LESS. COLLECT MORE. That's how you balance an account. It cant be one sided.

DONT WANT TO HURT PEOPLE? End corporate welfare to balance one end. Spending cuts, you guys figure out (I vote military campaigns on foreign soils, but I will leave it to you.)

[dobermansrule]

Originally Posted by monicaei

My reference wasn't sneaky. It was pretty straight forward

I fully agree with you. "Overfishing" can't be undone, it becomes a "generational" problem. Once
enough of the stock is tapped out, you hit a critical number that can never recover. Fishery collapses. I hope we aren't there, maybe we are. But we don't just give up, right?


Spend less, make more. That's the only answer, if there is one. It cant be one sided.

That stupid "Grover" pledge doesn't help. What was that about, really?

SPEND LESS. COLLECT MORE. That's how you balance an account. It cant be one sided.

DONT WANT TO HURT PEOPLE? End corporate welfare to balance one end. Spending cuts, you guys figure out (I vote military campaigns on foreign soils, but I will leave it to you.)

the big elephant in the room is the unfunded liabilities in the future of medicaire and medicaid. Future budgets are doomed before ever created. and I agree - pull all our military home, close all these foreign bases. Strengthen our own borders. Stop giving money to countries that don't even like us. Continue being the most charitable giving nation on earth. Stop wasting money on stupid 'grants', like the mating cycle of the yellow horned butterfly and other stupid things. Implement a flat/fair tax system, no loopholes. EVerybody their fair percentage.

[GRAYGHOST]

There are no reasons to raise taxes. Raising taxes on the so called 'wealthy' will hurt job growth, and stiffle investment. Cutting spending, and taxes will stimulate the economy, and will increase revenue to balance the budget.

I know/ know of several people who will either not be expanding their business, or closing completly. My bother-in-law's boss told him, before the election, that if Obummer won he would be closing the construction company. My son will not be adding another fitness gym to the two he has while Obummer is in office; he will be lucky to keep the two that he now has.

Obummer does not understand how the real world of business works, as he has never done anything productive. He was raised as a socalist/communist, and that is how he views everything. Stealing from the productive is all he knows.

By the way Obummer does not like the wealthy (unless they are socalists), but he does not object to taking many wealthy style vacations on the taxpayers dime.

[monicaei]

Originally Posted by GRAYGHOST

There are no reasons to raise taxes. Raising taxes on the so called 'wealthy' will hurt job growth, and stiffle investment. Cutting spending, and taxes will stimulate the economy, and will increase revenue to balance the budget.

I agree with this, to an extent. Mostly the fact that you put "wealthy" in parenthesis. I dont know too many people making 250k that consider themselves "wealthy".

That being said, there is no evidence that providing tax cuts for that group does anything to stimulate job growth either.

I still like MY plan... End corporate welfare. People moan and groan about welfare... THATS THE GROUP LIVING OFF THE GOVERNMENT DOLE. For example... Subsidies oil the big 5 oil giants. I think they could pay a few taxes and we don't really need to pay them. NO they won't pick up and head elsewhere. They drill where the oil is and we have it in INSANE amounts.

Can someone PLEASE let me know what the whole "Grover Norquest" pledge thing was about,
GOP? Where does one guy get the power to dictate what our elected "representatives" are going to do? Who were they elected to represent?

[VZ-Doberman]

Originally Posted by monicaei

NO they won't pick up and head elsewhere. They drill where the oil is and we have it in INSANE amounts.

The oil companies can incorporate anywhere. Not where they drill but where their corporate headquarters are.

[monicaei]

Originally Posted by VZ-Doberman

The oil companies can incorporate anywhere. Not where they drill but where their corporate headquarters are.

Yes, i know. They also tend to split up into multiple different subsidiary companies in the regions of the world in which they work. This is what they are doing NOW.

They are extracting our natural resource and hauling it to market and the US gets virtually no revenue for it, except large campaign contributions to both parties ensuring the system stays in place and they can take what is ours and sell it.

[monicaei]

Still want an answer on the Grover Norquist thing. How does a lobbyist get control of the entire political right wing?

[sandy2233]

If this new prez can cut the fraud out of programs, I will vote Democrat the next time. I use a personal experience as a reference. I know of a "professional" who is a doctor. He is living with a "girlfriend". He will not marry this woman under any circumstances. There are 3 children involved, two his, 1st is by another fling. As long as he is not married, the state has paid for all three to be brought into this world. Also, dental and eye care for the children. Free lunches at school for the 1st. And commodities. "They" are building a new house. But she is designated a single mother with children and she lines up for everything she can get. And she gets it. I can understand a first mistake with a fling. Wouldn't have a problem with helping a person out. But to pay for the sexual habits of people just is a slow burn for me. We worked very hard to make sure the two children we brought into the world were our responsibility and no one elses. And we did not have insurance for the 1st. Made payments and I sold a horse. I don't know what the solution is. When "O" first got elected and Ocare went into effect, my health insurance went from $500. to $700 a month w/$20,000. deductible. I can't afford to go to a doctor because I am already forking out $8000. a year for health care. If the insurance raises to $900., that is over of third of my income before taxes come out. Self employed so I pay everything. This is a burn for me. I'm 61 years old. In the last 5 years, I have missed one day of work. No workie, no payee. Sorry for the rant. I just don't believe that free anything is fair to anyone except for the people that don' work.

[dobermansrule]

Originally Posted by sandy2233

If this new prez can cut the fraud out of programs, I will vote Democrat the next time. I use a personal experience as a reference. I know of a "professional" who is a doctor. He is living with a "girlfriend". He will not marry this woman under any circumstances. There are 3 children involved, two his, 1st is by another fling. As long as he is not married, the state has paid for all three to be brought into this world. Also, dental and eye care for the children. Free lunches at school for the 1st. And commodities. "They" are building a new house. But she is designated a single mother with children and she lines up for everything she can get. And she gets it. I can understand a first mistake with a fling. Wouldn't have a problem with helping a person out. But to pay for the sexual habits of people just is a slow burn for me. We worked very hard to make sure the two children we brought into the world were our responsibility and no one elses. And we did not have insurance for the 1st. Made payments and I sold a horse. I don't know what the solution is. When "O" first got elected and Ocare went into effect, my health insurance went from $500. to $700 a month w/$20,000. deductible. I can't afford to go to a doctor because I am already forking out $8000. a year for health care. If the insurance raises to $900., that is over of third of my income before taxes come out. Self employed so I pay everything. This is a burn for me. I'm 61 years old. In the last 5 years, I have missed one day of work. No workie, no payee. Sorry for the rant. I just don't believe that free anything is fair to anyone except for the people that don' work.

hey, look at the bright side.. you are close to the age where the state will just let you die. I'm hot on your heels.

[dobermansrule]

Originally Posted by monicaei

Still want an answer on the Grover Norquist thing. How does a lobbyist get control of the entire political right wing?

I don't know. I don't trust people with weird first names like Grover. Sounds pretentious. And whoever he is, he's failed. Government has done nothing but grown.

[monicaei]

Originally Posted by sandy2233

If this new prez can cut the fraud out of programs, I will vote Democrat the next time. I use a personal experience as a reference. I know of a "professional" who is a doctor. He is living with a "girlfriend". He will not marry this woman under any circumstances. There are 3 children involved, two his, 1st is by another fling. As long as he is not married, the state has paid for all three to be brought into this world. Also, dental and eye care for the children. Free lunches at school for the 1st. And commodities. "They" are building a new house. But she is designated a single mother with children and she lines up for everything she can get. And she gets it. I can understand a first mistake with a fling. Wouldn't have a problem with helping a person out. But to pay for the sexual habits of people just is a slow burn for me. We worked very hard to make sure the two children we brought into the world were our responsibility and no one elses. And we did not have insurance for the 1st. Made payments and I sold a horse. I don't know what the solution is. When "O" first got elected and Ocare went int
effect, my health insurance went from $500. to $700 a month w/$20,000. deductible. I can't afford to go to a doctor because I am already forking out $8000. a year for health care. If the insurance raises to $900., that is over of third of my income before taxes come out. Self employed so I pay everything. This is a burn for me. I'm 61 years old. In the last 5 years, I have missed one day of work. No workie, no payee. Sorry for the rant. I just don't believe that free anything is fair to anyone except for the people that don' work.

Reading this makes me want to burn my eyes out with a red hot poker.

Someone should sic the "moral majority" and "focus on the family" lobbyists on these idiots. They are the ones who deserve it.

[astra]

Originally Posted by sandy2233

If this new prez can cut the fraud out of programs, I will vote Democrat the next time. I use a personal experience as a reference. I know of a "professional" who is a doctor. He is living with a "girlfriend". He will not marry this woman under any circumstances. There are 3 children involved, two his, 1st is by another fling. As long as he is not married, the state has paid for all three to be brought into this world. Also, dental and eye care for the children. Free lunches at school for the 1st. And commodities. "They" are building a new house. But she is designated a single mother with children and she lines up for everything she can get. And she gets it. I can understand a first mistake with a fling. Wouldn't have a problem with helping a person out. But to pay for the sexual habits of people just is a slow burn for me. We worked very hard to make sure the two children we brought into the world were our responsibility and no one elses. And we did not have insurance for the 1st. Made payments and I sold a horse. I don't know what the solution is. When "O" first got elected and Ocare went into effect, my health insurance went from $500. to $700 a month w/$20,000. deductible. I can't afford to go to a doctor because I am already forking out $8000. a year for health care. If the insurance raises to $900., that is over of third of my income before taxes come out. Self employed so I pay everything. This is a burn for me. I'm 61 years old. In the last 5 years, I have missed one day of work. No workie, no payee. Sorry for the rant. I just don't believe that free anything is fair to anyone except for the people that don' work.

She gets it because apparently no one has reported her lying ass. All of the benefits that you have stated that she is getting are determined by HOUSEHOLD INCOME. If she, the children and the "good" doctor are all living together under the same roof and all use the same address and they are lying about it, then that is FRAUD. If the agencies from which she is collecting these benefits finds out that she has lied to obtain any of these benefits, she will have to pay every penny back. If you know her name and the doctors name and you know their address, call the local division of the Health and Human Services Department for the county that they live in and REPORT THEM!

Hearing stories like that INFURIATES me because there are families who truly need help that are getting denied because of dirtbags like that who take advantage of and decieve the system. What they are doing is so wrong on so many levels and they should truly be embarassed of themselves and their actions.

[monicaei]

I'm kinda doubting this is a real story... I know "X" doctor, and his "baby mama". I also know how they file their taxes, what welfare those kids receive, and their insurance coverage, etc.

Unless you are the doctor and baby mama's accountant, how would anyone know this? I would think an MD gaming the system would be smart enough not to broadcast it to every casual acquaintance they have. And certainly a LARGE dose of shame and embarrassment.

Either way... I vote we send "focus on the family" after them. I really just want to give those guys something productive to do. They have ALOT of rage, and it needs a useful direction.

[Dictator]

My next door neighbor is on Social Security Disability she has 3 children so they also get benefits and possibly her husband. She told me she has a back problem I offered her the name and phone number of the Neurosurgeon who did my back surgery. Couple of months later I asked if she had gone to see him she told me No her Doctor told her she is too young for surgery my Doctors have told me the longer you let it go the worse it gets. That didn't make sense to me until her husband mentioned she was on Disability.

She has lived there 6 years once you're on Disability 2 years later you're eligible for Medicare. I believe her children and possibly her husband are also. Her children get benefits until they are 18 the oldest is 12 the youngest 6. She can stay on disability until she is old enough for Social Security then simply switch over.

Her husband does work they have a nice home & both drive newer Cadilacs.

Whether she has a back problem and how severe it is I don't know I do know you can go Doctor shopping and get the diagnosis you want.

[Dictator]

Originally Posted by monicaei

I'm kinda doubting this is a real story... I know "X" doctor, and his "baby mama". I also know how they file their taxes, what welfare those kids receive, and their insurance coverage, etc.

Unless you are the doctor and baby mama's accountant, how would anyone know this? I would think an MD gaming the system would be smart enough not to broadcast it to every casual acquaintance they have. And certainly a LARGE dose of shame and embarrassment.

Either way... I vote we send "focus on the family" after them. I really just want to give those guys something productive to do. They have ALOT of rage, and it needs a useful direction.

With respect to welfare benefits for a single mother and 3 children that is public knowledge.

They would file separate taxes whether she would have to file I'm not sure if her only known income is from welfare.

People gaming the system many times are proud of it and are not ashamed or embarrased. They feel why not or they are entitled to it. Only a few people need to know then everyone knows human nature is don't tell any one but.........

When I was working I had a girl working for me who had an atttendance problem. She wanted certain hours off every week to attend a housing seminar. It was going to be a problem covering her job so I went to the Postmaster. He checked into it the Housing Seminar was run by Acorn in Chicago after X amount of weeks she would be given a $10000.00 grant to buy a house. I was amazed she had credit problems and took a lot of time off. She was let off to go to the Seminar got her $10000.00 and bought a house through FHA.

I'm not certain but I believe when this happened President Obama was a Community Activist for Acorn.

[Dictator]

Despite Congressional Sparks, FERC Decision Greenlights First-Ever Exports of Liquified Natural Gas from the Continental U.S. | Line of Sight

April 2012 FERC allows US Natural Gas to be liquified and sold to foreign countries.

Fracking was done in Pa and is moving to Ohio with this decision it makes it very attractive

I'll have to look it up but I don't believe they will pay what is called a severance tax

This is being done under Obama these companies will get long term contracts we'll lose a very important natural resource and the companies will "make" a lot of money. At some point we will run low on natural gas so who will get it the US or Foreign Countries.

[monicaei]

Originally Posted by Dictator

April 2012 FERC allows US Natural Gas to be liquified and sold to foreign countries.

Fracking was done in Pa and is moving to Ohio with this decision it makes it very attractive

I'll have to look it up but I don't believe they will pay what is called a severance tax

This is being done under Obama these companies will get long term contracts we'll lose a very important natural resource and the companies will "make" a lot of money. At some point we will run low on natural gas so who will get it the US or Foreign Countries.

That is what I was talking about. It's practically piracy. We are being looted and saying "thanks" to the people doing it.

END CORPORATE WELFARE!