Who will you vote for? - Page 80

**clipclop** · 10-23-2008, 10:35 AM

Lois-

See links like that are nothing factual... critizcizing John McCain's "love of readin" and sticking their nose up at peoples education! What is up with that? Bottom line is NO books got banned and the the librarian didnt get fired even though she was well within her rights to fire who she saw fit! Just like MANY politicians have done before!! Happens allll time time.

**clipclop** · 10-23-2008, 10:35 AM

Lolonurse- there IS no list. Please do post what your source cites as the list of books Sarah banned.

cshellenberger · 10-23-2008, 10:40 AM

OK, those of you with a 401K need to look out! There's talk of nationalizing your 401K into Social Security!

Hot Air » Blog Archive » Democrats to kill 401(k)s for … privatized Social Security?

cshellenberger · 10-23-2008, 10:43 AM

Lois,
Here's the Fact check article debunking the book ban myth.

FactCheck.org: Sliming Palin

**avalonandon** · 10-23-2008, 11:03 AM

Clip Clop - I can definitely see your point about the accumulative effect of the "associations" and I do consider this seriously. However the individual "offenses" have such incredibly small value per, that the cumulative result is still minuscule to me. I have to say that the most egregious of these would be his church. I am most concerned with statements that his pastor made but I also recognize that I didn't always agree with my pastor - and sometimes very much so.

The truth of the matter is, I don't see the points of Wright's statements as being as controversial as others might - it is the way and the words that I take issue with. Last year I took 3 very comprehensive courses on the Middle East and learned some disturbing facts - yes facts - about our nation's involvement with some REALLY bad stuff. Thing is, we do not hear about these things from the proper perspectives and often, we don't hear about them at all - its just kinda swept under the rug. So Jeremiah Wright's statement about the US bringing terrorism down on itself, although a terrible exaggeration, does at least have some truth to it. The problem is, we can usually claim immunity from the acts themselves but our tacit support via financing, arms and other means, leave us very very culpable - knowing what the ends of these would be.

I do think that things like, "God damn America" are uncalled for but it is, in my assessment, a pastor's duty to point out immoral acts as they see them and to exhort their members to vote accordingly. I think Wright crossed some lines and there are thousands of pastors nationwide(my brother is one of them) who do it the right way (through peaceful demonstrations on Capital Hill, tv and newspaper interviews, etc.)

**avalonandon** · 10-23-2008, 11:06 AM

Lol - I forgot to say that I do not go to church anymore. Its against my religion.

cshellenberger · 10-23-2008, 11:16 AM

Av, I will be the first ot say we have had some unsavory associations in the Middle East for many years (dating back to Kennedy). Yes those associations have bitten us in the backside and include Hussien, Bin Laden (whom we supported to get the USSR out of Afganistan) and the Late Shah of Iran. At the time our main concern was the Cold War and keeping the USSR from controlling the resources o the Middle East and the to near our border areas of Central America (a concern I see once again with Russia and Argetina).

At times we have to make alliances with those we don't agree with to preserve our National Security. It's something tat will always happen.

However, the poisen the Wright spews from his pulpit is far beyond mere protesting our former alliances, it's anti-Semetic and anti-caucasion (aka racist). The same with another 'aquantance' of Obama's, Lious Farrakan. They are both hate filled people that I put in the same class as David Duke and other members of the KKK.

**avalonandon** · 10-23-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cshellenberger

Av, I will be the first ot say we have had some unsavory associations in the Middle East for many years (dating back to Kennedy). Yes those associations have bitten us in the backside and include Hussien, Bin Laden (whom we supported to get the USSR out of Afganistan) and the Late Shah of Iran. At the time our main concern was the Cold War and keeping the USSR from controlling the resources o the Middle East and the to near our border areas of Central America (a concern I see once again with Russia and Argetina).

At times we have to make alliances with those we don't agree with to preserve our National Security. It's something tat will always happen.

However, the poisen the Wright spews from his pulpit is far beyond mere protesting our former alliances, it's anti-Semetic and anti-caucasion (aka racist). The same with another 'aquantance' of Obama's, Lious Farrakan. They are both hate filled people that I put in the same class as David Duke and other members of the KKK.

Again, this is the sticking point for me with Obama and something I would like him to explain and/or admit. I did not mean for my previous post to exonerate Wright but rather maybe widen the lens somewhat on how his statements are viewed and understood.

**dobermansrule** · 10-23-2008, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolonurse

and the Republicans REALLY do not get the notion of actual hardship. They are all oil people, and poverty, to them, is probably only 1 house, and a Chevy.

so there are no, zero, zilch wealthy Democrats? I find that hard to believe. I don't believe there are many or any in the White House or Congress that are hurting. Name one that is - any party. And the Democrats align with the poor working people - how? Don't you you have to be a poor working person to align?

**dobermansrule** · 10-23-2008, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cshellenberger

OK, those of you with a 401K need to look out! There's talk of nationalizing your 401K into Social Security!

Hot Air » Blog Archive » Democrats to kill 401(k)s for … privatized Social Security?

That's easy. When that happens I pull out of the 401k.