Who will you vote for? - Page 71

**RedFawnRising** · 10-21-2008, 08:57 PM

Each group feels they have the right info and correct path... perhaps some day, we'll find out.

Hehe, yes, goes back to the human need to make others wrong so we can be right.

Don't believe the way we believe? Y'all are going straight to the fiery pits of hell, then!

I guess I just don't buy into such a punitive image of the divine.

As a very cool Christian friend of mine always says: "Yes, I believe in Jesus. It's just my Jesus is not as mean as your Jesus."

Doberkim, I wish I could do videos, but no can do, with my archaic dial-up. Le sigh.

**lolonurse** · 10-21-2008, 09:19 PM

Carla - We love Simcha and The Naked Archaeologist. We watch it all the time, and also just about every History, Nat Geo, Discovery and PBS channel program about archaeology, anthropology, history, religion and philosophy, and Cosmos-type space programs. Sounds like you're a Simcha Jacobovici fan too! lois

**avalonandon** · 10-22-2008, 07:19 AM

A friend sent this to me this morning and I thought it made some pretty good observations:

In case you are still considering a vote for John McCain you might want to consider these points first:

1) You can't be pro-life and pro-war.

2) You can't be pro-jobs and against pork barrel earmarks (they are almost entirely for creating jobs)

3) You can't be for cutting Joe-The-Plumber's taxes and taxing his health insurance benefits.

4) You can't be "country first" and nominate someone like Sarah Palin (secessionist ties).

5) You can't be for improving foreign policy and against talking to anyone without self-righteous pre-conditions

6) You can't be for alternative energy development when you won't even vote for a bill to promote it.

7) You can't be for strong family values when you dump your long term first wife for some wealthy chippy to get yourself ahead in politics(!!!!).

8) You can't be about change when you spent the last four years voting and acting along parallel lines with a failing administration (openly admitted to voting along side Bush 90 percent of the time).

Let's get real here. John McCain is all about talking points. He tells you what you want to hear so you will vote for him but his reputation and promises don't add up to reality.

John McCain just wants to be president. He is like a dog chasing a car. He doesn't know why, he just wants to have it. Once he gets it he won't know what to do with it. I honestly don't think he even cares.
__________________

kirk180 · 10-22-2008, 07:34 AM

_____

Quote:

Originally Posted by avalonandon

A friend sent this to me this morning and I thought it made some pretty good observations:

In case you are still considering a vote for John McCain you might want to consider these points first:

1) You can't be pro-life and pro-war.

2) You can't be pro-jobs and against pork barrel earmarks (they are almost entirely for creating jobs)

3) You can't be for cutting Joe-The-Plumber's taxes and taxing his health insurance benefits.

4) You can't be "country first" and nominate someone like Sarah Palin (secessionist ties).

5) You can't be for improving foreign policy and against talking to anyone without self-righteous pre-conditions

6) You can't be for alternative energy development when you won't even vote for a bill to promote it.

7) You can't be for strong family values when you dump your long term first wife for some wealthy chippy to get yourself ahead in politics(!!!!).

8) You can't be about change when you spent the last four years voting and acting along parallel lines with a failing administration (openly admitted to voting along side Bush 90 percent of the time).

Let's get real here. John McCain is all about talking points. He tells you what you want to hear so you will vote for him but his reputation and promises don't add up to reality.

John McCain just wants to be president. He is like a dog chasing a car. He doesn't know why, he just wants to have it. Once he gets it he won't know what to do with it. I honestly don't think he even cares._____________

^^^^^Looks like a lame and pretty simplistic email if you ask me. Mind you I'm still "truly" undecided on who I'll vote for, even though times running out. But both parties give to one area and adjust it by taking from another. It's called balancing. Pro McCain supporters could easily pull up 8 faults they have with Obama as well. Just silly. Then again, I fear that many a voter don't see through this type of jargon. And what you've posted in bold print...it carries absolutely no weight or substance. It's the same type of basic attack/negative add that Obama has spent more money on than any other nominee in the history has. Also, Obama tells the people what they want to hear as well. Matter of fact, he's flopped his viewpoint on several occasions after seeing that the polls didn't agree with his statement. It's just how it goes. Not that he's any worse than the others. I'm just saying, this guy doesn't walk on water you know?

Wait a sec? Aren't you the one that stated you were still undecided? Just wondering. Cuz every time I check up in here it seems you're swinging from Obamas nuts.

**avalonandon** · 10-22-2008, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirk180

_____

^^^^^Looks like a lame and pretty simplistic email if you ask me. Mind you I'm still "truly" undecided on who I'll vote for, even though times running out. But both parties give to one area and adjust it by taking from another. It's called balancing. Pro McCain supporters could easily pull up 8 faults they have with Obama as well. Just silly. Then again, I fear that many a voter don't see through this type of jargon. And what you've posted in bold print...it carries absolutely no weight or substance. It's the same type of basic attack/negative add that Obama has spent more money than any other nominee in the history has. Also, Obama also tells the people what they want to hear. Matter of fact, he's flopped his viewpoint on several occasions after seeing that the polls didn't agree with his statement. It's just how it goes. This guy doesn't walk on water you know?

Wait a sec? Aren't you the one that stated you were still undecided? Just wondering. Cuz every time I check up in here it seems you're swinging from Obamas nuts.

No, I said at one point that I was on the fence but I have pretty much made up my mind. I have remained open up until the last few days where I do not see myself changing my mind.

I bold printed that section because I wanted to make it clear that I personally wasn't saying it as an add-on. As a result, it looks like I thought that was a critical part when in fact, I agree with you that it is carrying no real weight or substance. The other points however, particularly 4,5,the first half of 7, and 8, are extremely important, relevant and accurate.

kirk180 · 10-22-2008, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avalonandon

The other points however, particularly 4,5,the first half of 7, and 8, are extremely important, relevant and accurate.

Sure they are. Ok. You do realize how easily number 4 could be turned around and aimed at Obama based on some of the radicals he speaks with right? You also realize that Obama has since flopped on statement 5 and said there would be pre-conditions right? You can thank Hilary for picking him apart on that one. As far as statement 7 goes:...I won't pretend to claim that I know what was going on behind the scenes of his first marriage. Therefore I have no comment other than that's a low blow to post such a claim without the evidence. Since by and large many first marriages fail. It's just goes to show how low some are willing to stoop to get a vote. Oh yeah, number 8: Haven't we heard this one enough already? Can someone please show me a statistic that tells us how many times Obama has supported Bush? I'd like to see it. Yet when I search for it, I come up with nothing.

To each his own. I'm simply playing devils advocate. Seems though that statements 4,5,7, and 8 don't mean a whole lot to me.

**lyngr** · 10-22-2008, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avalonandon

No, I said at one point that I was on the fence but I have pretty much made up my mind. I have remained open up until the last few days where I do not see myself changing my mind.

I bold printed that section because I wanted to make it clear that I personally wasn't saying it as an add-on. As a result, it looks like I thought that was a critical part when in fact, I agree with you that it is carrying no real weight or substance. The other points however, particularly 4,5,the first half of 7, and 8, are extremely important, relevant and accurate.

I think everybody picks and chooses what they feel is relevant, accurate and/or plain bunk. That last bolded part could easily be how many of us feel about Obama.

As intelligent and thought provoking as many of your (and other) arguments have been, it still doesn't change my mind about who I believe is better prepared to lead this country.

I am always amazed by how groups of people can look at the same darn thing yet have vastly different opinions. Very interesting.

**avalonandon** · 10-22-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirk180

Sure they are. Ok. You do realize how easily number 4 could be turned around and aimed at Obama based on some of the radicals he speaks with right? You also realize that Obama has since flopped on statement 5 and said there would be pre-conditions right? You can thank Hilary for picking him apart on that one. As far as statement 7 goes:...I won't pretend to claim that I know what was going on behind the scenes of his first marriage. Therefore I have no comment other than that's a low blow to post such a claim without the evidence. Since by and large many first marriages fail. It's just goes to show how low some are willing to stoop to get a vote. Oh yeah, number 8: Haven't we heard this one enough already? Can someone please show me a statistic that tells us how many times Obama has supported Bush? I'd like to see it. Yet when I search for it, I come up with nothing.

To each his own. I'm simply playing devils advocate. Seems though that statements 4,5,7, and 8 don't mean a whole lot to me.

As for 4, Obama very clearly did not support Ayers and worked with him along with several other officials on a project - he is not associated with Ayers and openly condemns his acts and statements.

As for 5, No, Obama does not believe in the kind of pre-conditions that McCain and Bush do. Colin Powell even referred to the fact that Obama will put an end to these policies by actively engaging others that have been almost completely shut out of diplomatic negotiations.

The full statement in number 7 is somewhat shaky except for the reality that he did dump her and he himself claims it was the thing he is most ashamed of in his life.

Number 8 seems obvious enough to me. Obama is known for his opposition to Bush and this fact has not once been disputed by anyone. Furthermore, 90% is 90% - and that is pretty damning evidence of McCain's policy.

kirk180 · 10-22-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avalonandon

As for 4, Obama very clearly did not support Ayers and worked with him along with several other officials on a project - he is not associated with Ayers and openly condemns his acts and statements.

He also denounced his preacher (who many claimed to be a radical hater of the US and it's ways) after going to his church (even being married there) for something like 20 years. As stated before, Obamas no different. He himself makes the changes where need be, and hushes up the others, so as to not jeopardize his run for the white house. Then again, it's not just Ayers or the preacher. I'm sure I could pull up a couple more.

As for statement 5. Yes he did change his mind and say there would be preconditions. Perhaps not as strict as the conditions laid out by McCain, but he did change his view to the middle of the road once it was realized that his viewpoint wasn't so favored by all.

I think lyngr said it best. It is rather amazing how two people can read the same statements and get two totally different view points from it.

kirk180 · 10-22-2008, 08:49 AM

Correction. Seems I may have had it wrong, yet right at the same time. Turns out there's a possibility that Obama has flopped again on his viewpoint with Iran and is now stating that he would talk to Iran again with no preconditions. I can't keep up anymore. My apologies.

See second paragraph in article: Hot Air » Blog Archive » Obama’s Triple Lindy: Iran, Iraq, and League of Democracies flip-flops