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Old 11-19-2012, 08:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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RAW pre made patties or home made ?

im about to stock up on some raw food for riko.
over here in ontario they sell premade patties to how you want and you can mix it up not bad 45lbs for 45bucks!!!

im debating if i should buy the patties or just buy everything from scratch and do it ourselves?

what do you guys do?
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't do patties, I do prey model. The only time my guy and gal even get anything ground is if they are on the road with their handler. Otherwise, they get everything whole or in large chunks.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The only RAW experience I have had is with the Instinct Raw patties. I had 3 loaves - rabbit based. I noticed he

1- Loved them
2- His coat was shiny and soft
3- His stools were formed and healthy

However, as much as I would have LOVED to continue this diet, it was pricey per loaf- which don't get me wrong- is completely worth it. It is something I will pick up every now and then, specifically in the medallions because I can add them to his dry food.

I personally will substitute this for any canned wet food.

It is worth a try and you may like the results.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I sure do wish sam&macksmom was here to share her input. She feeds only raw, and like avianantics, she does it all from scratch and in full pieces.

I use pre-made patties and supplement it with whole, meaty bones, carrots, and apples, and sometimes 1/4 organic chicken or ground bison, tripe, organs, etc.

I'm working on transferring the dogs and cats over to a complete raw diet that I prepare myself. The reason I like the pre-made patties is because it's easy to deduce how much is required for each dog based on their weight and activity level, etc. And I know that it's supplemented with vitamins and minerals. It also has fruits and vegetables, which aren't necessary for their carnivore diet, but they do contain a lot of fiber, which keeps my kids full and has helped Tessa lose some weight since we adopted her.

Neither dog vomits nor has diarrhea. Neither dog has had a flea or tick. Their coats are shiny, full and smooth. And, most importantly, they LOVE the raw - especially the bones.

Hope that helps.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Wow thanks for the helpful tips!

I can do the prey model as well with premade!!!!!!
They let me pic and choose what I want and make it to my exact request!

Or am I getting it wrong. Does prey model mean whole bones not grounded?

Or 80 meat fat-10 bones- 10 organs

I'm also shopping around to compare prices
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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We do prey model as well. We try to stay away from as much processed stuff as possible. I think as long as your pup is on a good raw diet it will be fine. Patties are really easy and fast to feed if you have little time or travel. We have had our girls on raw since august and there is a massive difference in them. Congrats on going raw, you won't regret it whichever way you decide to go be it prey or premade.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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does prey mean the meat being whole instead of grounded ?
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Actually a true prey model diet is the whole dang animal, fur, feathers, head, feet, etc. Since there are just some things I can't stomach, my dogs eat what I call a "sissified" prey model diet. I don't feed whole prey, no feathers, fur or heads. I do feed literally every kind of meat I can get my hands on. Diet consists of roughly 80% Meat, 10% Bone and 10% Organs (half of which is liver). Beef, Chicken, Bison, Llama, Lamb, Goat, Rabbit, Turkey, Fish, Deer, Elk even Beaver on occasion when I can get it. Along with this the dogs get a chicken foot everyday (great source of glucosomine), fish oil and vitamin E. Once a week they get a whole turkey neck. No veggies or fruit except as treats now and then (Wheeler loves lettuce and Lola loves cucumber).

The dogs have amazing coats, sparkly clean teeth, no doggie odor, no stinky gas and are in amazing condition and health. I will never again feed commercial dog food and find that feeding this way is much less expensive than pre-made raw (patties, etc.) I have been asked at dog shows a number of times what coat dressing I use on Wheeler's coat, because it is incredibly shiny. Truth is that I don't use a coat dressing at all. All I do is spritz him with plain water and wipe him down with a microfiber cloth.

The only time I feed ground food is when the dogs are with the handler. I supervise my dogs meals just in case somebody gets overzealous and tries to swallow something too large. I have never had a problem, but none-the-less still supervise their meals. When the dogs are on the road with the handler I don't want to worry, so I send along a pre-ground that consists of basically 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% organ.

I purchase a large portion of what I feed from My Pet Carnivore. I also pick up Chicken from the local grocery when it is on sale, I can get Chicken quarters fairly regularly for $0.59/lb. During hunting season, I also check with the local game processors and can oftentimes get a great deal on deer meat.

I have my Vet run a blood chemistry on my guys twice a year, and watching Wheeler's labs and overall appearance and health over the past 3+ years, has converted my Vet from being opposed to feeding raw to switching his own dogs to a raw diet, and even recommending it to some clients.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avianantics View Post
Actually a true prey model diet is the whole dang animal, fur, feathers, head, feet, etc. Since there are just some things I can't stomach, my dogs eat what I call a "sissified" prey model diet. I don't feed whole prey, no feathers, fur or heads. I do feed literally every kind of meat I can get my hands on. Diet consists of roughly 80% Meat, 10% Bone and 10% Organs (half of which is liver). Beef, Chicken, Bison, Llama, Lamb, Goat, Rabbit, Turkey, Fish, Deer, Elk even Beaver on occasion when I can get it. Along with this the dogs get a chicken foot everyday (great source of glucosomine), fish oil and vitamin E. Once a week they get a whole turkey neck. No veggies or fruit except as treats now and then (Wheeler loves lettuce and Lola loves cucumber).

The dogs have amazing coats, sparkly clean teeth, no doggie odor, no stinky gas and are in amazing condition and health. I will never again feed commercial dog food and find that feeding this way is much less expensive than pre-made raw (patties, etc.) I have been asked at dog shows a number of times what coat dressing I use on Wheeler's coat, because it is incredibly shiny. Truth is that I don't use a coat dressing at all. All I do is spritz him with plain water and wipe him down with a microfiber cloth.

The only time I feed ground food is when the dogs are with the handler. I supervise my dogs meals just in case somebody gets overzealous and tries to swallow something too large. I have never had a problem, but none-the-less still supervise their meals. When the dogs are on the road with the handler I don't want to worry, so I send along a pre-ground that consists of basically 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% organ.

I purchase a large portion of what I feed from My Pet Carnivore. I also pick up Chicken from the local grocery when it is on sale, I can get Chicken quarters fairly regularly for $0.59/lb. During hunting season, I also check with the local game processors and can oftentimes get a great deal on deer meat.

I have my Vet run a blood chemistry on my guys twice a year, and watching Wheeler's labs and overall appearance and health over the past 3+ years, has converted my Vet from being opposed to feeding raw to switching his own dogs to a raw diet, and even recommending it to some clients.
thank you
you cleared up alot of questions i was unsure of.
i think im going to do half and half until i get the hang of fully prepping a full blown prey model for Riko.

im lucky my neighbors love to hunt (deer/wild bird/rabbit) so i will ask for some

its okay for them to eat the skin as well? or should we skin them?

thanks everyone for all their info
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I used to feed whole rabbits we would hunt (sounds more macho than it is) but bumpy started trying to eat them like a snake and she nearly choked to death, so I gave up on that, stupid dog.

I'm not sure dogs are carnivores but rather omnivores IMO, they are not wolves anymore and have been domesticated long enough to have adapted to our diet although wolves do have vegetable matter as part of their diet also which should be taken into consideration from both stomach content of prey and actually actively seeking berries, other fruits and tubers.

One thing I did notice when I used to do a raw diet (rather uneducatedly) was they ate more horse crap, maybe they were missing something?

Anyway I would love to convert to a raw diet but I just am not confident I could do it properly without more education, so I too hope Sam&Macksmom is ok and will see this thread.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:54 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Dogs are carnivores, they have the teeth and digestive tract of a carnivore.
Wolves for not eat stomach content, they dump it out, then eat the stomach.
This is old outdated wolf information you are talking about. Wolves would only eat berries, etc if they were starving and there was no prey.

If you are feeding a variety of wild caught meats, organ, bone, you wouldn't need to supplement, but factory farmed meat is how most raw feeders get their meat, and factory farmed isn't the most natural /healthiest meat do that is why you need to supplement.
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Hi everyone. I was really curious about My Pet Carnivore | Raw dog, cat, and pet food including: tripe, beef, bones, chicken, duck, rabbit, turkey, so after checking out their website, I sent them an e-mail requesting some info about the origin of the meat, and whether it was grass-fed, cruelty-free (if that's even possible considering they're being raised for slaughter), and if they used organic/natural products. The owners sent me this very helpful and informative e-mail that I thought I'd share in case anyone else is interested in that kind of stuff when feeding their kiddos. Here it is:

Thank you so much for your inquiry--please know that it is greatly appreciated! As we say online, we source primarily from Michigan and in the Midwest, but we are working on a few sources (Emu from New Zealand and Venison from Utah to name a few), so we are branching out. We do not raise the vast majority of our animals. However, our producer, Schoenborn Farms, has a close relationship with many of his sources locally, and he knows that we only want hormone-free, antibiotic-free, steroid-free animals, and free range organic when we can. Unfortunately, there are not enough of the free range organics available in our price-range, so we do not make those claims online. For instance, one of our large turkey suppliers only raises the turkeys for their feathers, so they are carefully "tended" since damaged plumage can cost them a lot, so they are given lots of room to roam so as to not break their feathers on cage walls. One of our favorite goose suppliers has a flock he leaves to their own devices all year in a back corner pond of his farm, and when the weather gets cold in the fall, they wander into the barn to roost and he gathers them for us. The muskrat and beaver (when we have them) are wild caught.

As you might imagine, there is not one easy answer for your questions, but we work very hard to get only the best sources. Our tripe comes from grass fed beef only (these are dairy cows that are not "grained finished" before going to market) as do the beef items online, aside from the young beef that we get from dairy farmers, and those animals are only fed mother's milk before we get them.

In any case, we hope that gives you some idea as to how we go about sourcing our animals, and much of this information is online as well. If there is anything more we can do for you, please do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks once again, and have a tremendous week!

All the best,

-- Suzanne and Paul Dijak-Robinson


Quote:
Originally Posted by avianantics View Post
Actually a true prey model diet is the whole dang animal, fur, feathers, head, feet, etc. Since there are just some things I can't stomach, my dogs eat what I call a "sissified" prey model diet. I don't feed whole prey, no feathers, fur or heads. I do feed literally every kind of meat I can get my hands on. Diet consists of roughly 80% Meat, 10% Bone and 10% Organs (half of which is liver). Beef, Chicken, Bison, Llama, Lamb, Goat, Rabbit, Turkey, Fish, Deer, Elk even Beaver on occasion when I can get it. Along with this the dogs get a chicken foot everyday (great source of glucosomine), fish oil and vitamin E. Once a week they get a whole turkey neck. No veggies or fruit except as treats now and then (Wheeler loves lettuce and Lola loves cucumber).

The dogs have amazing coats, sparkly clean teeth, no doggie odor, no stinky gas and are in amazing condition and health. I will never again feed commercial dog food and find that feeding this way is much less expensive than pre-made raw (patties, etc.) I have been asked at dog shows a number of times what coat dressing I use on Wheeler's coat, because it is incredibly shiny. Truth is that I don't use a coat dressing at all. All I do is spritz him with plain water and wipe him down with a microfiber cloth.

The only time I feed ground food is when the dogs are with the handler. I supervise my dogs meals just in case somebody gets overzealous and tries to swallow something too large. I have never had a problem, but none-the-less still supervise their meals. When the dogs are on the road with the handler I don't want to worry, so I send along a pre-ground that consists of basically 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% organ.

I purchase a large portion of what I feed from My Pet Carnivore. I also pick up Chicken from the local grocery when it is on sale, I can get Chicken quarters fairly regularly for $0.59/lb. During hunting season, I also check with the local game processors and can oftentimes get a great deal on deer meat.

I have my Vet run a blood chemistry on my guys twice a year, and watching Wheeler's labs and overall appearance and health over the past 3+ years, has converted my Vet from being opposed to feeding raw to switching his own dogs to a raw diet, and even recommending it to some clients.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I follow Dr. Ian Billinghurst's diet.
Personally, I feed 3 chicken carcasses in the morning, which represents 1.5 pounds and at night I feed 1lb of ground beef or porc mixed with veggies and a little fruit. I would love not to have to feed ground, but I have not been able to get my hands on meat that is less expensive. Currently, the chicken I get is about 55cents a pound and the beef/porc is 2.39 a pound that I get from a local butcher. My guy doesn't put on weight well (even when he was on raw patties when we first started, so the beef and porc helps with that as it's more fatty)

But because he is 85lbs and still growing and eats close to 3lbs a day, I spend roughly 120$ a month and any other cuts of meat in full size would just blow over 200$ as nothing is less than 5$ a pound around here. Also the raw patties in Quebec are very expensive (and he prefers my mix so stopped eating the patties altogether) I will pick up turkey necks every once in a while and am still searching for a way to get him to eat organs, which he will not touch. For now, he gets his organs cooked in the form of treats.

I do not feed any supplements, but vary the fruits and veggies which he adores (carrots, sweet potato, spinach, zuccinni being the usuals). I will also add in a can of sardines every once in a while, and eggs.

According to my personal research, the fun thing about raw is that your dog does not necessitate a balanced diet every meal, nor every day, not even every week. I added pumpkin to his diet recently because it was in season, so he'll get the added benefits of that, but won't for the rest of the year.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I've been researching out raw for months now and have decided tomorrow to give it a go. My family is huge on hunting so I will be making sure all the organs and goodies are saved but until then unfortunately I will be the meat from the butcher and grocery store. I want to do as close to prey model as I can to help sharpen and clean his teeth, but I've read so many different opinions on supplementing the raw food, does that mean adding some occasional fruits and veggies? Or pills of some sort? Also when I eventually add sardines into his meal do I just throw them in whole? Sorry I know this has been discussed a lot on here but I want to do it right, thanks.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:18 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The most important thing is variety. I do give fish oil daily, vit E every 2-3 days. You can just toss sardines in whole. I don't feed veggies or fruit. However, when I make a salad I do toss the dogs cucumber peels, lettuce, a piece of tomato, etc.

For my own peace of mind, when I first started feeding Wheeler raw, I had bloodwork done every 30 days for the first few months, just to make sure he was doing okay. No issues.

I did a lot of tweaking and made a lot of mistakes in the beginning, but once I "got it" it has been smooth sailing. Every dog is different -- Wheeler requires more bone in his diet than Lola does. Lola does better with less Chicken and more red meats. Wheeler, it doesn't matter. Wheeler will not eat Muskrat or thawed fish (fish must be frozen for Wheeler). Lola love muskrat, thawed fish and has yet to turn her nose up at anything.

One thing to note -- anytime you are feeding wild game, you want to make sure it has been frozen for awhile before feeding.

Join the Yahoo raw feeders group. There is a lot of good information there, and I have found people to be very helpful.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Im still researching before I start but I think when I do start
I'll feed kibble and raw at separate times till I get the hang of it
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
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thanks for the info ill join that group. Is bone weight factored into how many lbs of meat I'm supposed to be feeding? Or would that depend how big the bone is( example: meaty leg bone or ribs versus chicken quarter etc)

I'm going to do chicken to start him off because its so easily digestible. How small of amount should I start with or do you think I'm fine not slowly weening him off his kibble?
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky14 View Post
im about to stock up on some raw food for riko.
over here in ontario they sell premade patties to how you want and you can mix it up not bad 45lbs for 45bucks!!!
im debating if i should buy the patties or just buy everything from scratch and do it ourselves?
what do you guys do?
sky14...$1/lb. is really reasonable // got any links, or local ON. source(s) you could post ?
Thks. from Larry.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dobiebane View Post
thanks for the info ill join that group. Is bone weight factored into how many lbs of meat I'm supposed to be feeding? Or would that depend how big the bone is( example: meaty leg bone or ribs versus chicken quarter etc)

I'm going to do chicken to start him off because its so easily digestible. How small of amount should I start with or do you think I'm fine not slowly weening him off his kibble?
It's all together, bone and meat. You don't want to feed weight bearing bones such as leg bones. Chicken legs are okay, but large leg bones can break teeth.

It is best to start kind of slow...maybe the little leg of a quarter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaumont67 View Post
sky14...$1/lb. is really reasonable // got any links, or local ON. source(s) you could post ?
Thks. from Larry.
That price makes me wonder if the percentage of meat vs vegetable is low.

Shucks, I'm always forgetting something! There is a lot of good information on raw and cooked diets, plus supplement info, too, in the DogAware site below in my signature.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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That price makes me wonder if the percentage of meat vs vegetable is low.
I agree. You need to make sure what is in that pre-made food. I used to feed NV but the price went sky high, so I've been happy with the Legacy Pet Foods frozen product, although one would need to feed more. I don't because either my dog is old, or on a diet......
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:10 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Dobiebane, I add fish oil, and diatomaceous earth daily. Sardines and Honest Kitchen Preference every other day. Occasionally mix in coconut oil, olive oil, cheese, yogurt, table scraps,

I start cold turkey. Kibble one day, all raw the next.
I would start with high bone content chicken like chicken frames and backs. You will need to SLOWLY intoduce new meats and organ after that or you will get diarrhea issues.

How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Beaumont67 View Post
sky14...$1/lb. is really reasonable // got any links, or local ON. source(s) you could post ?
Thks. from Larry.
Didn't realize this thread was still going I have them saved on my laptop so I'll post them up when I get back from Dominican
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:14 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaH View Post
It's all together, bone and meat. You don't want to feed weight bearing bones such as leg bones. Chicken legs are okay, but large leg bones can break teeth.

It is best to start kind of slow...maybe the little leg of a quarter.



That price makes me wonder if the percentage of meat vs vegetable is low.

Shucks, I'm always forgetting something! There is a lot of good information on raw and cooked diets, plus supplement info, too, in the DogAware site below in my signature.
From wht I remember they make it in front of you so you see what's going in!!!
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