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Old 08-23-2011, 07:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Raw Feeding

I'm looking into raw feeding for Kaiser. He hasn't really been adjusting well to the kibbles we've tried. I've spent some time searching the internet and the forum, but I can't seem to gather enough information for me to be able to fully understand. I'm sure this post has already been done somewhere on the forums, or that there's a good, informative site somewhere out there. If someone knows of either of these, feel free to link... otherwise, I have some questions.

1. What all can I feed my dog? What's the best/recommended diet?

2. Is it more expensive than kibble? If so, by how much?

3. How will it affect my dog's behavior? I know certain foods can make them more/less hyper, etc.

4. Does it take a lot of time to get meals together?

5. How much should I feed my dog? I've seen several different figures.

6. How many times a day do I feed?

That's all for now, I think. If any other questions come to mind, I'll post them. Don't hesitate to respond even if you only have an answer for one question, and don't feel like you can't respond if someone else already has... Thanks in advance!

If anyone needs to know, Kaiser is 5 months old and ~46 lbs.
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I feed 2 times a day. I feed 2-3% of their body weight. For a puppy Iíd start at 2-3% of ADULT weight and go from there.
I follow prey model. 80% meat no bone, 10% bone, 5% liver, 5% other organ. I have an outside freezer where I store critter food. Ití s not any more time consuming for me than kibble. Itís about the same price for me because I am a member of a local raw feeding coop and on avg pay $1.00/lb. I get chicken on sale at the stores for 49-59 cents a lb. I get beef and sometimes lamb heart for $1.30 a lb. I also get a ground mix of beef organs with some goat/lamb of variety. I buy turkey once a year when it goes on sale. I buy pork when it goes on sale also.
I do weigh the food daily. Others eyeball it. There is a learning curve and once you are up to speed it isnít any more time consuming than kibble. Open fridge, take out food, put in bowl. I do check local ads for stores weekly but I do that for human food anyway. I no longer go to pet stores to get kibble, but I do pick up meat once a month from our coop place.
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I too feed raw and second what Adara has advised you of. It can be a little overwhelming at first not knowing what you are supposed to be doing but it easily becomes regular, common place activities in your home. Coco eats a variety of meats but can be a little picky sometimes and decide she is tired of fish or chicken so I give her a break from something for awhile and then reintroduce it to her and she is thrilled. Coco also likes fruits and vegetables which you do not have to do. I just give them to her because I know she likes them. Once in awhile I "cook" Coco a big treat because she loves this. I just made her a batch now. I buy a huge bag of frozen sardines from the raw dog food place near my house....it is about 4 pounds...I lightly sautee them in olive oil, mix in frozen veggies (peas & carrotts are her faves!!) and add some left over rice because she likes rice once in awhile. You don't have to do this for your dog but I do it for Coco once in awhile because she loves this!! Give raw a try. I started about a year ago. Tried it for a few weeks and stopped because I hadn't researched enough. Got my research done and have never looked back!!
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Here are some useful external links:

Raw Diet | B-Naturals.Com Newsletter

Myths About Raw: Are dogs omnivores?

The Best Food to Feed Your Dog – Part I | B-Naturals.Com Newsletter
The Best Food to Feed Your Dog – Part II | B-Naturals.Com Newsletter
The Best Food to Feed Your Dog – Part III | B-Naturals.Com Newsletter

And here is the DT link:

Raw Feeding Faq
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
I buy a huge bag of frozen sardines from the raw dog food place near my house....it is about 4 pounds...I lightly sautee them in olive oil
I feed the sardines raw - they love them that way. We get them individually frozen and each dog gets 2 sardines a week - Sunday and Wednesday nights - with their normal meal. They love them frozen. The ones I get are about 8-9" long - I get just under 3 to the pound (2.88 sardines per pound based on the number of bags of 8 I created from a 50lb box).
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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1. I just started feeding Delta raw about a week and a half ago. She's eating 80% meat 20% of a veggie mix I made based on a guideline recipe from one of Glas' coworkers who has been feeding raw for over a decade.

Meat: I'm buying whatever I can get for less than $1/lb :p I think I will always buy meat more frequently than other raw feeders because I lack freezer space.

Stuff I'm using in her veg mix atm:
canned pumpkin
unflavored yogurt
frozen okra, turnip greens, green beans, carrots (going from memory here, I think that's right)
fresh cucumber
tiny bit of minced garlic

Stuff I'm avoiding:
Potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant, corn and any bread or grains
fruit (haven't found anything she likes besides watermelon)
spinach (something about the phosphorous balance with the rest of the mix? You'd have to get her to clarify this one.)
onions and grapes (aren't dog-safe to begin with)

I also give her scraps and leftovers if they are "dog-safe" -especially rice since that's not in her veg mix. She also currently still gets a fish-oil supplement.

2. When I added it up, it costs me less than $2/day for Delta. She eats a little over 1.5lb/day, but is smaller than a lot of the dobes on here. That's ~$1.50 for the meat, and a little for the veggies (the veggies cost me $1.04 - $1.59/lb BUT she eats so much less of the mix. )

And as a backup, I have Nature's Variety premade raw (Rabbit version). It's considerably more expensive but very convenient.

3. We had to review crate-stay the first couple of days as she was so more reluctant to wait patiently, especially if I walked out of sight. :p She also really wanted to carry anything with a bone in it to the living room to eat on the rug, but obviously I don't want raw meat on the rug! It was not hard to convince her to take it into her crate instead though.

4. The veggie mix took me a little bit in the store because I was price-checking and comparing everything, then a bit again at home to mix it up and separate for freezing (partially because I kept having to dig out big pots and bowls!), but normal-sized bags of frozen veggies and such made enough of this mix to last me over a month at least. It was also strangely fun, tbh - kind of like cooking but without the pressure of needing it to turn out well!

5. Raw Food Calculator is what I used. I used a 5lb scale to measure things out, but realize you're never going to have it precisely identical every day since the cuts of meat are never identical.

6. I split her food into 2 meals/ day.

It's too soon to tell if it's helping with her skin allergies as we haven't quite even finished the meds from her last breakout yet.

ADVICE: Separate the meat into BEFORE you freeze it. Otherwise it solidifies into a giant-meat-popsicle that is a pain to get out of the freezer, much less cut into portions. (Plus, you feel dumb. ) So now I measure out my meat as soon as I bring it home, then wrap it in aluminum foil to freeze.
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The Many Myths of Raw Feeding
How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw
Raw Feeding FAQ
Raw Meaty Bones
Leerburg | Feeding a Raw Diet
Anti-Raw Article Rebuttals
Jane Anderson's - Myths of Supplments

I have Tom Lonsdale's Work Wonders in PDF if you want it.
Heres a quick edit I made that says what to feed
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/86/rawdiet.jpg

Some good books you should get
Raw Dog Food: Welcome to Dogwise.com
Work Wonders: Welcome to Dogwise.com
Raw Meaty Bones: Welcome to Dogwise.com
Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs: Welcome to Dogwise.com
Ultimate Diet: Welcome to Dogwise.com
Grow Your Pups With Bones: Welcome to Dogwise.com
Give Your Dog a Bone: Welcome to Dogwise.com
Shock to the System: Welcome to Dogwise.com

1. What all can I feed my dog? What's the best/recommended diet?
whole carcasses from a variety of animals, including organs and bones
chicken, beef, pig, rabbit, elk, whole fish, lamb, anything you can get. eggs.

5-10% organs (1/2 of this amount is liver)
10-15% edible bones
80-85% muscle meat

Dogs have no need for grains, veggies, or fruit if you feed a variety, but you can add it if you wish.

2. Is it more expensive than kibble? If so, by how much?
no. If you know how to shop for deals it can be much cheaper than a high quality dog food

3. How will it affect my dog's behavior? I know certain foods can make them more/less hyper, etc.
it has been said to make lazy dogs have more energy and even out overhyper dogs. give dogs a more even energy level

4. Does it take a lot of time to get meals together?
I make my pups dinners once a month, takes about an hour, weigh each meal and put them in ziplocks/tupperwear and freeze enough for a whole month

5. How much should I feed my dog? I've seen several different figures.
2-3% a day/21% a week of their total adult weight. Every dog is different, you should be able to feel some rib. If your dog is over/under weight adjust it accordingly.
Should keep puppies lean

6. How many times a day do I feed?
you can feed once or twice a day. personal preference
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Old 08-24-2011, 04:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leliel View Post
1. I just started feeding Delta raw about a week and a half ago. She's eating 80% meat 20% of a veggie mix I made based on a guideline recipe from one of Glas' coworkers who has been feeding raw for over a decade.
My boss has successfully used this at home both with her dogs and others' for a while, as Leliel noted.

As a safety guy I'd feel bad if I didn't remind anyone who was considering raw of the importance to prepare raw food separately from your own food, wash your hands and any utensils used thoroughly, et cetera et cetera. ^_^
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Old 08-24-2011, 05:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
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As a safety guy I'd feel bad if I didn't remind anyone who was considering raw of the importance to prepare raw food separately from your own food, wash your hands and any utensils used thoroughly, et cetera et cetera. ^_^
The same cleaning precautions/methods we use for our own raw meat should be used when handling critter raw meat. Raw meat is raw meat whether we are cooking it for us or feeding raw to the critters.
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:16 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Old 08-25-2011, 04:06 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
I buy a huge bag of frozen sardines from the raw dog food place near my house
Are these whole? Cleaned? Do they have anything like a brand on the packagng? How much does the bag cost? Do you cook them because your dog won't eat them raw?
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Old 08-25-2011, 04:09 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vivienne00 View Post
I feed the sardines raw - they love them that way. We get them individually frozen
Everybody can get raw sardines but me??? Where do these come from?
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Old 08-25-2011, 06:07 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Are these whole? Cleaned? Do they have anything like a brand on the packagng? How much does the bag cost? Do you cook them because your dog won't eat them raw?
The big bag I get at the raw dog food place they are whole but the small ones. These ones have the heads and tails cut off. I am not sure where they get them from because they find deals all over the place and import stuff in. I also bought Coco a bag of big sardines that were whole at a grocery store. I am in Canada not sure if you are. This bag had about 10 big whole ones and was on sale for $2.00. Coco will eat the heads and tails too...she doesn't mind. Actually she loves the tails!! I can also get whole mackerels around by my house too. Coco likes raw fish but she gets picky about it so I will "cook" her up a batch of this every once in awhile as a treat because she gets so excited about it. She stands besides me and waits while I make this. I have also been thinking of going to an ethnic specialty grocer (ie: asian, indian or spanish) because I have heard in Canada that you can get cheap deals on fish or meat at these places. Coco also will eat sardines out of the can in water too.
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Old 08-25-2011, 07:31 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I had a hell of a time understanding raw feeding, everywhere i read someone said something different but in the end it all comes down to what you want to do...

As a guide I give my 12 week old dobermann pup roughly 1lb of meat a day split into 2 meals... I also give puppy porridge but many do not do this, I am just carrying on with what my breeder started me on.
Zeus has as many different meats as I can get hold of, Variety is the key.
He has Chicken Tripe Lamb Beef & some Pork... He has a raw egg a week and also some fish weekly.
Vegetables I just make extra on a sunday from our roast dinners and like other posters have said any 'dog friendly' scraps.
Obviously you have to make sure he has his bone intake also and Organs... Heart is great and also liver.
I have bought a second hand chest freezer & put it in the shed. Any meats I get I weigh and seperate them immediately into food bags and so all i have to do is defrost.
There are some website that offer premade raw food but if you can get from the butchers it works much cheaper than kibble.
I was so scared to start the raw diet and now its the best decision Ive ever made,
my Zeus cannot wait for meal time and hes got tons of energy that reportedly kibble fed dogs can be a bit 'sluggish' from time to time..

Good luck!!
Zoe&Zeus
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Old 08-25-2011, 07:41 AM   #15 (permalink)
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MY plan had been to feed raw chicken fryers as a staple and add in eggs, organs and other varieties of meats. Unfortunately, I found out the chicken was in fact what caused my pup to gnaw himself like he has fleas around his back and tail and rear legs. I removed the chicken and in just a day the gnawing went away. So, had to throw that out the window and feed grain free fish and red meats kibble as well as red meat raw. The plan is ultimately balance over time and feeding about 2% adult weight(for me that was 2# a day). I recommend adding fish oil for omega 3(grocery store meat is low in omega3) and maybe look to adding kelp http://shop.kelpproductsofflorida.com/main.sc as well for quality nutrients and especially Iodine for a healthy thyroid.

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Old 08-25-2011, 07:53 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I buy fresh fish and sardines at my local fish market. Sam & Mack love to eat them semi frozen, like fish-sicles.


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Everybody can get raw sardines but me??? Where do these come from?
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Old 08-25-2011, 01:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I.
Obviously you have to make sure he has his bone intake also and Organs... Heart is great and also liver.
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In rawfeeding, typically heart is not considered an organ for feeding purposes, nor are gizzards. I'd add something else like kidney, spleen, thymus, etc.
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:06 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mmctaq View Post
Everybody can get raw sardines but me??? Where do these come from?
I am in Oregon and we get them from California via a raw food group. They are whole with heads and guts.
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:29 PM   #19 (permalink)
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For those having a hard time finding the raw sardines or smelt try your local Asian market. I find a lot of goodies there.
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