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Cropping Troubles

4K views 38 replies 10 participants last post by  dobebug 
#1 ·
Hi everyone,

My wife and I have a 10 week old dobe. He just got his 2nd cup off, so we went to our vet for first posting. Long story short, we weren't happy and neither was Jack. He was in pain and I couldn't let him be like that. I took the popsicle sticks out and attempted the backer rod method. He keeps shaking out the bases. I'm pretty sure I went deep enough and I'm using 3/8" rod. My question is, even though he shook out bases, they are standing pretty good on posts. Is it ok to leave how it is until next week for posting? I will send pics. Thanks!




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#3 ·
I tried to get them down as far as I could go. As you can see it was probably 3/4" inch to 1" into the base of his ear. Then he shook like a mad man when we put him down. How far down approximately should it be down in the ear? I don't want to hurt him. Is there anyway to post without inserting anything in the ear? I know racks are frowned upon, any other suggestions? He was fine with the cup since they were cut.


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#4 ·
Personally I'd report them. As fainfenix said, they need to be almost 'screwed' into the base of the ear. I always cut the bottom into more of a mound shape then twisted them down while gently pulling the ear up. It worked very well.

If they come out, repost. Leaving them out can cause sores or other issues.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Did you wrap your post so that the tape is sticky on the outside? Round the bottom of the post off, sorta like a spike but blunt end. I take a piece of regular duct tape long ways and pre wrap the post to give it strenght but leave bottom of post thats tapered that goes in ear uncovered. Then take the athletic wrap tape and wrap the entire post then flip the tape so your wraping with the sticky side out. I also add a small extra piece of backer rod at the bottom where the bell is depending on the shape of the ear. To do this i just slice the backer rod down the middle and usually use about 1" -1 1/2" piece and before i wrap with the athletic tape i attach to the bottom of post but leave enough of the long post stick out the bottom(tapered part) that it goes deep in bottom of ear.

From your pictures it looks like your not using enough tape to hold the posts in and not wrapping the posts with sticky side out. When you post pull up and out on the ear to get the post as deep down in the ear as possible. Also make sure to wrap in the direction that the bell will be pulled closed at the bottom will help keep the posts in. Make yourself a pattern with no tape, once you get the hang of it its pretty easy. Good luck!
 
#7 ·
Leaving the post out of the ear at the bottom as pictured just about guarantees that you'll end up with pockets.

So the answer is that you shouldn't leave them like that.

Any time a puppy shakes a post out of the base of the ear it means that something wasn't quite right about the posting. Take the ear/post down and re post.

The most common reason for lot of determined head shaking that results in the bottom of the post coming out of the ear is that the post wasn't actually all the way down in the ear--twisting it a little as you insert it and making sure that you continue to push down on the post until you get that first wrap of tape on at the bottom helps a lot.

If you aren't back taping the post you should be doing that as well.

Also I am not a big fan of just two wraps of tape--often it will allow the ear to slip either up or down the post--that's also why you need to back tape the post itself.

So when I post ears I tape the entire ear--one layer, just barely overlapping and while you made the posts long enought to go all the way to the tip of the ear you didn't tape them to the post all the way to the tip. Make sure the tip of the ear is taped in place--leaving them unattached sometimes leaves you with tips that curl--which then need to be corrected.

Good luck-with ear posting, practice really does make perfect..
 
#8 ·
Thank you all! We did strengthen rod with duct tape and back wrapped the rod with sensitive skin medical tape. It was pretty sticky, maybe not sticky enough. We did not taper the bottom of the rod though, maybe preventing the attempt to get the rod deep enough? I didn't think this would be this difficult. The videos make it look like a breeze!


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#10 · (Edited)
I use Muellers athletic tape, i buy it at Walgreens.

Dont get discouraged, the post will pop out and fall off its normal when learning the process. As you get use to posting with practise over next few postings you will get good at it and they will stay in the ears better and longer for you so no worries.
 
#18 ·
Yes, use an athletic tape. I prefer one of two Johnson and Johnson products--either Zonas (which is what most vet clinics use) or Johnson and Johnson Coach Sports tape. Those are both latex adhesive, cloth, breathable tapes. And they are low tack (not terribly sticky) They don't need to be sticky--it's how you tape not how sticky the adhesive is that makes the posts stay in place.

The one thing that I do not agree with on the posting tutorial is the use of VetWrap (the colored stuff) as the final layer. It, and all other self amalgamating tapes should be avoided for ears. They can shrink and cut of circulations.

Sam's right, time and practice will make you an expert. And not long ago Sam put up a picture of one of his dogs posted--it was so good I told him he could come post puppies for me anytime.
 
#20 ·
Yes, use an athletic tape. I prefer one of two Johnson and Johnson products--either Zonas (which is what most vet clinics use) or Johnson and Johnson Coach Sports tape. Those are both latex adhesive, cloth, breathable tapes. And they are low tack (not terribly sticky) They don't need to be sticky--it's how you tape not how sticky the adhesive is that makes the posts stay in place.



The one thing that I do not agree with on the posting tutorial is the use of VetWrap (the colored stuff) as the final layer. It, and all other self amalgamating tapes should be avoided for ears. They can shrink and cut of circulations.



Sam's right, time and practice will make you an expert. And not long ago Sam put up a picture of one of his dogs posted--it was so good I told him he could come post puppies for me anytime.


Thank you!


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#21 ·
I've also heard different variations of how long to leave a posting on. Days, a week, 2 weeks, until the come off on their own. What is the correct timing? Remove with alcohol or baby oil to break down adhesive? Sorry for all the questions. We are new dobe owners and want the best for the little guy, without stressing him out too much.


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#22 ·
If the weather is cool I might leave the posting on for a week. In warm weather or humid weather it would be more like 3 or 4 days. If the posts get wet I take them down, clean and dry the ears and put them back up.

I DO NOT clean ears with alcohol. I either use a prescription ear cleaner from the vet or just water and a little Dawn detergent and q-tips or cotton balls. If I have access to UniSolve I use that to remove the posts. Alcohol really doesn't do a good job of breaking down latex adhesives. Oil works better than alcohol if you don't have a product specifically intended to remove adhesives. It's just messier. And you do need to clean off whatever you used to remove the posts and tape so that the next posting will adher to the ear.

Your puppy has already proven that he tends to have tender skin (because the tape was rubbing and made a sore.) So I would watch like a hawk for any sign of irritation. The bottoms of the posts always tend to look dirty (it's ear wax and dead skin cells) when you take them out but your nose is a good guide to what is going on under the tape--if the ears and posts smell like anything other than warm puppy and adhesive tape--take them down and look. And because it both soaks up some of the natural "goop" that ears produce I always put a small pad of cotton at the bottom of the post and tape it in place--it makes it both more comfortable for the puppy but it absorbs ear wax and dead skin cells.

Keep asking questions--we all start somewhere and if you don't get answers we aren't doing a very good job.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Try feeding him or doing it when he is really tired. If I could distract Piper directly after I posted she would accept them a bit better and not shake as much. And also keep him close and ask soon ask he shakes give him a gentle "ahh ahh" and stop him. That's what my breeder did. She would post, feed treats, let her down and GENTLY scold her when she started shaking her head. You do it a few times he will get the hint he isn't really suppose to do it. He still will, but not as much. Also give lots of belly rubs and other distracting wonderfulness until he gets use to them.

As for the mechanics, I'm sure everyone else gave you great tips. Piper was my first and the breeder did it all but the last month, so I'm no expert. Ditto on the week in cool weather, 3-4 days in hot humid weather.
 
#31 ·
Ok, so Jack's ears were starting to look really good. I think we got the posting down. (Sometimes with 2-3 tries, because he shakes them out) He's 13 weeks so we took them down to see how they stand. And they stand really good, small amount of flopping when he runs. When he's really alert, they start to tilt inwards. We've been using light tampons because he shakes out the regular and supers really easily. Backer rod wasn't working for us. I figured he might be forming pockets so we used the bumper method. Approximate 2" bumpers about 1" above the bottom of post. I placed the bumpers just behind the natural fold in his ears. Is that the correct placement? They're positioned between facing eachother and the back of the ear. I posted a few pics of his ears for reference. I've seen all the posting with bumpers posts. Just curious as to where exactly they should be positioned. Thanks all! I'd be lost without this forum!




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#33 ·
Ok that makes sense, thanks. This posting is really good so I'm gonna leave it for a few days and see how that placement was. Will definitely do the thumb trick next posting. Also, I know he's young, but if they stay up for 24 hours, is it safe to say we're done posting?


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#36 ·
#38 ·
Piper's went up quickly as well, but would fall eventually if given the opportunity. We left them off for a while here and there and they would kind of wilt. Not fall (maybe they would have if we didn't immediately repost at that point), but they would tip in or out, the tips would curl, one would sit higher or lower, etc. If you want perfectly beautiful ears you will want to keep at it until after teething like someone else mentioned. They don't just need to be up, they need to be strong. We took them off at 5.5 months. I probably could have taken them off a couple weeks sooner but we didn't bumper for pockets as early as you and I wanted to make sure that "took". She still has breathe rite strips on the tips (glued on with torbots) a month later, but everything else looks good and I'm glad I stayed patient. The breathe right strips even stayed off 24 hours this last time before there was even hint of a curl! Yay! The strips are way easier and last longer. It's easy to be patient with those.

FYI (maybe I'm mentioned this before, but...) my method was super skinny craft sticks (1 at first, 2 later) wrapped in pick-a-size paper towels. I used Viva, my breeder uses Bounty I think. I tried the backer rod as well without luck since she was a shaker. I found the left over backer rod made great bumpers though. I would split them length wise then put the flat sides toward the post, half overlapping. It made it a little wider, less bulky.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Ears that stand for 24 hours when a puppy is only 13 weeks isn't a good test.

Even though there are exceptions (and I've had a few of them) the average for the taping/posting process to be finished is going to be roughly 4 months--which means the puppy would be 6 months old and would be finished teethng. That would be for a medium to a medium long crop. Long show crops usually would take somewhat longer.

Teething starts at around 4 months (plus or minus a week or so). Puppies loose teeth and the permanent teeth come in starting with the incisors top and bottom (these are the small front teeth between the canine incisors. Then they lose the premolars (right behind the canine incisors, top and bottom and then the molars at the very back. The last puppy teeth shed and replaced are usually the canines. It's probably worth checking the internet and printing out a chart showing puppy teeth and one showing adult teeth so you know how many and what the proper placement is.

For most puppies they will have all of the permanent teeth by the time they are six months old.
 
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