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If cropping and docking were to become illegal where I live I would...

  • I'm a show breeder and I would unequivocally leave the breed.

    Votes: 7 0.9%
  • I'm a show breeder and I would unequivocally stay with the breed.

    Votes: 7 0.9%
  • I'm a show breeder and I'm on the fence. I need more time, information or exposure.

    Votes: 4 0.5%
  • I'm a working breeder and I would unequivocally leave the breed.

    Votes: 2 0.3%
  • I'm a working breeder and I would unequivocally stay with the breed.

    Votes: 8 1.0%
  • I'm a working breeder and I'm on the fence. I need more time, information or exposure.

    Votes: 2 0.3%
  • I'm a show enthusiast/participant and I would unequivocally leave the breed.

    Votes: 14 1.8%
  • I'm a show enthusiast/participant and I would unequivocally stay with the breed.

    Votes: 26 3.3%
  • I'm a show enthusiast/participant and I'm on the fence. I need more time, information or exposure.

    Votes: 20 2.5%
  • I'm a working bite sport enthusiast/participant and I would unequivocally leave the breed.

    Votes: 11 1.4%
  • I'm a working bite sport enthusiast/participant and I would unequivocally stay with the breed.

    Votes: 40 5.0%
  • I'm a working bite sport enthusiast/participant and I'm on the fence.

    Votes: 7 0.9%
  • I'm a performance (Rally, Obedience, Agility) enthusiast/participant and I would "" leave.

    Votes: 9 1.1%
  • I'm a performance enthusiast/participant and I would unequivocally stay with the breed.

    Votes: 64 8.1%
  • I'm a performance enthusiast and I'm on the fence -- I need more time, information or exposure.

    Votes: 17 2.1%
  • My dog is solely a home companion and I would unequivocally leave the breed.

    Votes: 68 8.6%
  • My dog is solely a home companion and I would unequivocally stay with the breed.

    Votes: 402 50.6%
  • My dog is solely a home companion and I am on the fence. I need more time, information or exposure.

    Votes: 86 10.8%

Poll: Where I Stand on Cropping & Docking

60K views 489 replies 199 participants last post by  slimwomack 
#1 ·
There's been some discussion lately, both on the board and in chat, about cropping and docking and its ramifications in terms of the future of the breed should the procedure become illegal. I'm very interested to see how three possible scenarios shake out amongst Doberman ownership. Please feel free to expand if I've missed your "category".

Thank you to all responders.
 
#4 ·
Personally I don't really agree with the cropping or docking anyhow. When done only for appearance its like using plastic surgery for a Miss Universe contestant. The dog will be happy either way and that is the only part that matters to me. As long as my dogs are happy and healthy, appearance is just a book cover. Nice to look at but doesn't tell the story
 
#9 ·
I'm assuming that if and when a ban is in place here it would indeed be for both, not just one. So my assumption is that if you couldn't live with a natural tail, but you could live with natural ears, the poll options still work, as they will be a package deal whether we like it or not.
 
#10 ·
Before I ever had a Dobe I would probably not want one if I couldn't have the ears and tail done. Now that I know what it's like having this breed in my family I don't think I could ever be without one no matter what the rules were about the crop and dock. As long as I have the choice I will have my Dobes done. I think it just looks elegant when they are done.
 
#342 ·
Now that I know what it's like having this breed in my family I don't think I could ever be without one no matter what the rules were about the crop and dock. As long as I have the choice I will have my Dobes done. I think it just looks elegant when they are done.

I completely agree with this!! I like the look of having both done, but I love the breed so much that if it were banned then it would not prevent me from getting more Dobes in the future.
 
#11 · (Edited)
The poll doesn't have an option that suits me.
I participate in conformation and other dog sports. And my dogs are my companions first and foremost. They sleep in my bed every night as well. :)

To say nature intended is a moot point. Nature never intended the Dobe. Man made a Dobe. By careful selective breeding. Nature made canine ears upright for a reason. That is normal and natural in canines. Dropped ears/ large floppy ears are not normal and are susceptible to more ear infections.

I highly support cropping and docking, when done humanely at the right age with proper vet care and proper aftercare so it is only a short quick time in the dog's life. I love the look of a nice crop, a lot. Yes, I think crops have gotten too long, and it doesn't do the fight on cropping any favors.
But cropping is the traditional look, the look intended for the breed when it was created, the look the owner that gave the breed his own name had in mind when creating the dog, a look I grew up with as a child, a look I closely identify Dobermans with, a look most people closely identify Dobes with, the look that tells you what a dog might be when you can only see an outline from far away...or a sticker on car :) It is strange people with babies can get them circumcised or pierce their ears, but tail docking a puppy at a few days old is highly illegal?

Anyway, I figure the ban/the government will eventually come and take my rights to go to a qualified veterinary doctor to crop and dock my own personal well loved spoiled animals, and probably still do very little about all the REAL animal abuse out there every single day!
You betcha home crops and docks will be becoming way more popular unfortunately by those that don't care about what law is in or out, banning something in the US never means it goes away when you look at history, otherwise people wouldn't engage in illegal activities simply because they are banned.
And how about the dogs across the street who spend their time in a small pen without human contact, or those that don't even take their dogs to the vet ever, or on and on. Okay, not to be a pessimist, baby steps right...cropping and docking will be the way to eliminate all real animal abuse. Or maybe animal ownership...

But to answer the original question: I will adjust accordingly by throwing away the large majority of my posting supplies and keeping end tables and coffee tables clear as can be. ;) And giving liberal ear rubs to those long huge ole floppies and telling any toddlers not to grab their loooong tails! Probably will make my Dobes even more dangerous than before, as if an almost broken nose and fat lip isn't enough, now I will deal with watching out for tail whip lash. But I guess when they are running around in a tall grassy field, I can easily spot them with their tail instead of their ear tips.

I love this breed more than words can say and will own them my whole life regardless of their ears or tail or lack thereof, well, until the government breed bans them and takes them away too. :cwmddd:
 
#12 ·
Its already illegal here in the UK to crop and dock so i think by the fact we have Ellie is my answer as shes au naturel! :) I think dobes look stunning docked and cropped but Ellie is still as much a doberman as any other and i'd never miss out on the oppertunity of owning such a fantastic breed of dog purely on the grounds of cosmetic reasons.
 
#14 ·
I have loved dobermans for over 30 years and will always love dobermans! I am a huge crop and dock fan .....because to me that is how a doberman looks....and should look. funny but I am use to seeing pits and great danes with natural ears....it is becomeing the look for me for them. so I imagine over time I would ajust. but I love to look of a cropped dobe! natural dobes are of course still dobes......but to me they just dont have the flare a cropped dobe has. like looking at a poodle that is all trimmed and beautiful standing next to a poodle that has never been clipped. the non clipped poodle just doesnt look like a poodle!

now I know the crop and dock is done mostly because people like me are use to seeing dobes this way......but to me it is no different then anything else done to animals around the world......from ear tags to declawing.....heck even spay and neuter. people mold animals to what they want!......and it isnt what the animals wants! we even do it to our own children! earings and circumcision.....poke a hole or trim off some skin.so as long as it is ok to do this to human children I hope it is ok to do with dobermans. my 2 cents this morning
 
#29 ·
Oh, hey, that is really interesting. Care to elaborate a bit further?

I also find it interesting that, despite all the arguments about how the cropping and docking were originally done in order for the Doberman to be able to perform his work better--it is so far looking like the data are supporting those who work and compete in performance with their Dobermans aren't as adamant about the surgeries as the conformation folks.


...as they will always be puppy millers not cropping n docking as it is good for their agenda: MAKING MONEY...the less they have to put on a pup the more money in their pockets...its almost as if the vets want to promote puppy millers by going for NO cropping and docking...
Wow, I found that, on behalf of the great vets in my life, to be really offensive. I know of not one vet who condones or promotes puppy millers. And I sure wouldn't be giving my business to anyone who did.

Ever occur to you that these vets have made their own personal ethical decision that they do not want to condone or promote or participate in cosmetic surgeries?


I will ALWAYS have a Doberman nomatter what the ears and tail looks like.

Edit: It really shocks me that people would actually leave the breed over this issue.
It shocks me, too.

I admit, I do not wish for Dobertails, either, but, meh, if my dog really used his tail, I would sure find a way to get used to it.

I do think the people posting about this being more of an issue with government control than with whether you are for or against or neutral about C/D have a very valid point.

I personally would not support a legislative ban on C/D, but would love to see more folks choosing that on their own.
 
#19 ·
Well it just goes to show that it is NOT acceptable that a goverment body of ANY kind should dictate the breed club what to do...if we dont stand up we will loose our rights
Come on people wake up and back your breed club no matter if you show or not..as they will always be puppy millers not cropping n docking as it is good for their agenda: MAKING MONEY...the less they have to put on a pup the more money in their pockets...its almost as if the vets want to promote puppy millers by going for NO cropping and docking
Humanly they say? come on get a life this is question of competence and money
Thank you for letting me rant about this
 
#20 · (Edited)
I'm on the fence. I love, love, LOVE the look of a cropped/docked Dobe...but if having my dog "au naturel" means that less people would be afraid of her just based on looks, maybe it's not a terrible thing.

For instance: I was in PetSmart this past Sunday. Tess and I came to the end of an aisle and a man was pushing his mentally challenged son in a wheelchair. The son took one look at Tess and totally freaked out...his dad wheeled him away as fast as possible. I felt horrible!

That being said, Dobes are incredible animals and I couldn't imagine having any other breed of dog in my life. They're just as smart, just as trainable, just as loyal, just as fun with ears and tails as without.
 
#21 ·
I would still have dobermans if this were the law, but I agree on the cropped and docked look is far better looking the au naturael look. Dini has his ears cropped, but the ******* that had him before obviously didnt post and after care well on him so they are floppy. His tail is docked too short (first digit) so his whole butt wags when he sees me. Lots of good points made here, and hopefully we can make a difference and not have this ban happen, but what i've seen if the govt wants something done it gets done.

Funny stuff: I will hold Dinis ears up to make them stand for a second and tell him how pretty he looks, and he will give me the monkey look :cwmddd:~~"dad just love me for who I am"....then sometimes he will shake his head to get the one ear that will stand sometimes to stand and look at me with the clappy hands look :clap_1:, like "look what I did dad". Hopefully I won't give him a complex.
 
#22 ·
While I didn't feel this way two years ago when I got Petey who is my first Purebred Doberman, (I'd had two mixes in the past) I wish he still had his tail and his ears. I spend a tremendous amount of time outside with him in all sorts of weather. He always has problems with rain and snow getting in his ears, he would have been much better off with natural ears. As for his tail, I keep thinking about my Red Dobe/Weim mix Bigelow, and his huge garden hose tail, that caused lots of problems, I wish Petey had his. Also....can't imagine my life with out a Doberboy to share it with, there is NO other breed that even comes close to a Doberman. Petey is by far the smartest best dog I've ever owned, he makes my life so much fun every single day.
 
#24 · (Edited)
I don't really see this as a cropped/docked issue. I see it as nanny government trying to take my rights away due to AR extremist pressure. Who the hell are they to try to tell me I HAVE to remove my dog's reproductive organs, but can't remove a piece of skin? Chip, chip, chipping away at our rights and trying to impose their standards will never fly with me.

Edited to add, I will always share my home with dobermans..
 
#30 ·
The ears, to me, are a matter of preference... I think people should be able to make their own decisions whether or not they want the ears done.

But the tails... the tails are just a pain! For both the dog and the owner... I've heard of many dogs having to have the tail docked or worked on anyway because of it being broken. :(

Either way, there isn't any chance I'd abandon the breed because of something cosmetic.
 
#32 ·
Sorry, I'd be out. I fell in love with the look of a Doberman, and I seriously dislike the look of a natural ear on this breed, it completely changes the way the head looks. I think it's ridiculous to think that there are not other breeds out there that are just as spectacular in personality as a Dobe is, only not with the stigma (and in many cases serious health issues) that this breed has.

I adore my girls, I hope to have nothing but Dobermans in my life, but the reality is I will not live with an uncropped dog in my life...so if they ban it, I will love my girls (or whoever is with me at the time) until the day they die, but I would not get another one if I didn't have the choice to crop.
 
#34 ·
I think it is obvious that I would still own them but I would fight for the rights of owners to at the very least have the tails docked. I realize that it is a hit or miss but I wish I would have gotten Jordan's tail amptated when we got him. I gave it a great chance and it took only a few days to totally fall in love with the tail. I love playing with it and I love the looks of it (not that I don't miss the nubs of my other nubby buts).

I hate the blood spatter all over my walls on a daily basis almost, the bloody noses and having to control his enthusiasm everytime we let him out of his crate or in the back door. I hate my daughter holding her eye and seeing blood creaping out of the corner of it to only grab my coat to take her to the ER and see fresh blood on the wall realizing it is his blood. You feel relief but the heartpounding dread is already there.

I hate feeling guilty because I know that I will have the tail removed, but put it off because 1. I love it, and 2. I know it will be a recovery process. I look at his tail and just feel nauseous thinking about it. It is a part of him and he has no control over what his tail does.

So, there are many times I feel like taking pictures of my walls, bloody noses and eyes and pink whelps on my family and sending them into these government officials that want to make up this choice for families. I have to worry how many dogs would end up in rescue or euthanized because of the weapons attached to our dogs. I worry that the doberman would be considered an even more "dangerous breed" because of the danger of the whip.

Then again, my neighbors have a dane with a tail and the whip is nothing compared to Jordan's, nor has she ever injuried myself, my kids or my neighbors with it and there is a lot of contact between all of us. So, it is possible, but I guess varies between individual dogs.

I guess now would be a good time to snap some of those pictures before I spend an hour scrubbing my walls again.

Would I own another one? You betcha. Hopefully not with the same results, but I would.
 
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