GingerGunlock

He seems absolutely fantastic! Congratulations to his owner (and breeders).

Yes, the dog should be advertised. But the dog may not be advertised on Doberman Talk, per the rules of Forum Etiquette. That's the issue anybody had.

__________________

churchill

But does Atlas have OB TT standings and ROMs? It sounds like a tit for tat kind of thing. I am so turned off. There should be enough room for numerous dogs to contribute to the breed. Younger is not better because they have to prove that they have longevity, Oh, never mind.

Rosemary

Why not approach his owner, and offer to pay for an ad in Doberman Digest if you feel that strongly about it.

From the the forum etiquette:
"9) You will not post any messages that pertain to advertising/selling dogs or puppies (or any other live animal), or advertising/seeking any breeding services such as a stud dog or breeding your bitch. DT does not act as a medium to facilitate breedings, and all such type of threads will be deleted."

__________________
Proudly Owned By...
Lucky Rat Dog CGC

Ilka Of Pear Orchard Cemetery BN RE CGC CA

Speed Queen Leontine Von Washateria- Foster Failure

Dobelove

Why are you basically degrading her work because he's not as old yet? He may get his ROM and get into the TT in the future, he's a young dog. She never said younger was better.

Following the forum rules isn't "completely unnecessary." You can brag about the dog, but you don't have to break the rules in order to do so.

Congrats to his owners and breeders!

OldDrumDobes

Atlas is a young dog, it's wonderful what he's accomplished at such a young age. This is no tit for tat. This was a congratulations to a job well done totally taken off course.
And YES there should be enough room for numerous dogs to contribute to the breed. I'm thrilled to see any Dobe in performance sports.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App

__________________

Ali & Martin Doughty
Old Drum Dobermans

alwayshadpets

? I don 't get it.

churchill

DT is just a pet forum. There is a reason why so many knowledgable people don't participte here. I'm gone.

Whiskey

Congrats to the dog and handler! Awesome achievements. Let's focus on that.

Rosamburg

Not to be a smart ass (well maybe partly), but I am sure Ivan would recommend many dogs to do Sch, that is how he makes his money.

workingk9s

Now you are just being a baby.

I think I can see you stamping your feet and shaking your fists because the mods changed a little bit of your post and someone else dared to say that they were also in pursuit of the title.

Now YOU are taking away from the dog's achievements with this downward spiral thread.

__________________

Sam1491

I'm literally almost speecheless....it was just so mindnumbingly petty and pointless (the attitude switch)

You say "i want to celebrate the dog"...post is modified but kept so that it is not a promotion(whether you have connections to the dog or not, and whether it was intentional or not) per dt rules and dog can be appropriately celebrated...then you get upset, call names, and throw a fit...hmm, yea. I'm with meadowcat...your motives were what?

Regardless, congrats, a MACH is a large and awesome accomplishment for any dog and handler.

__________________

"The Red Devil Diva" & Her Shamelessly Obedient Human

DobieGal15

Anyway....... My agility club knows spirit and his mom well, he did very good and he deserves a huge congrats great job spirit!

__________________

churchill

I made it very clear in my original post that it was not an ad for the dog. I shouldn't be surprised by misinterpretations on the internet, but I still am. People come on here with litter announcements all the time, how is that not advertising?

doberad

First of all HUGE congrats to Spirit !!!!!
It is an awesome achievment for him and his owner as well as his breeders. This is his second FIRST achievemnt as he is also the first and still only MALE - CH Top Twenty agility finalist

Churchill
If you have not seen already this list appears to have different standards for different people. That is why some people can get puppies from breeders who rest on their past acievements , breed litters out of non champion bitches with successive non champion generations behind them and everyone congratulates both the puppy buyers and the breeders. Or they can continue to recommend breeders who have 6 litters within 5 months described on their website out of non champion bitches with apparently minimum health testing listed (I know they very well could be doing more then listed publicly) I am not one who believes that every champion bitch needs to be bred and know that some non champion bitches should be bred - HOWEVER - since I live in the same region as these breeders it is interesting how long it has been since I have seen any of their dogs (ie not owned by someone else) in the AKC ring with any attempt to show them prior to breeding. Other breeders who do not have 'friends' on this list with similar practices are slammed. There are defintely different standards for different people.
I enjoy this list and think that it provides some valuable information however it is not perfect (not that anything in life is )
I do understand and support the true meaning of the DT rules but am sorry that your intentions appear to have been misunderstood.

churchill

Yes, I have noticed the very same things. How is expressing that a dog like Spirit should be used in the Doberman gene pool advertising the dog but discussing your favorite stud dog is not? How is recommending a breeder not advertising then?

Sam1491

because they never solicit them they just say hey I had so and so many and they are all spoken for, just wanted to share what I think was a great litter, just the same as we'd share getting a new dog or a new title.

Wording is everything, i'd personally be happy it was modified instead of deleted, obviously they saw merit in your thread you just didn't write it correctly, whether you think you did or not.

Now can we please move on and just celebrate the dog?

__________________

"The Red Devil Diva" & Her Shamelessly Obedient Human

Asmit

There are quite a few (well maybe 3) dogs that I believe are exceptional and that I think should be used much much more than they have been. These dogs have exceptional accomplishments, and they encompass what I believe a Dobermann should be.

Truth of the matter is, DT is NOT the place to discuss this for more than one reason.

In my case, I would be better off discussing these dogs personally with bitch owners who are looking for males with those characteristics. I do not believe most breeders use DT for breeding decisions (although I may be wrong).

Although you or I may think a dog's accomplishments are exceptional and worthy of mass breeding, there are always people who disagree. Some breeder's would rather go to a dog who is not a MACH, without ANY titles on the other end if another dog has better conformation to enhance their bitch structurally. You will not convince them otherwise, just as I would not convince anyone to use my favorite stud dogs if they cared about looks necessary to achieve any sort of championship.

Long story short, yes, celebrate the dog's titles in the working sports section, but DT is not a place that is typically used for breeding decisions nor have I ever seen someone on DT change their breeding program due to a convincing thread.

churchill

For the record, I don't think any stud dog is worthy of "mass breeding." Our breed has had way too much of that already. I never thought that posting Spirit's accomplishments would influence anyone's breeding decisions. I don't think that expressing my feelings about him being worthy of contributing to the gene pool is a breach of forum rules. Expressing hopefullness that he would be used by quality breeders is not advertising and should not have been interpreted as such.

As for litter announcements, I have seen many of them that did not state that the puppies were all spoken for. They come across as advertising. There seems to be a great deal of subjectivity in the interpretation of forum rules.

Jonesy'sMom

Congrats to Spirit and his owner....

This was a great thread, but then to turn around and put down another dog/member that is working towards his MACH and has his CH that is just plain inexcusable. Pretty disappointing to see that anyone would do that. Alwayshadpets is a lot nicer then I would have been. YOU GO ATLAS!

__________________
~Summer~
Summer's Lost Ark Raider AX AXJ NF CGC(ASCA) RS-E JS-E GS-O
Jynx

When individuals bring nothing but drama to the table... Know it's time to let them eat alone. - Unknown

churchill

I appreciate any dog's accomplishments. I hope that Atlas gets his MACH soon, I already said that in an earlier post. I don't know why his breeder brought him into a congratulatory thread for Spirit. One of my dogs is more than half way to a MACH but I know that there is no guarantee until the dog gets it. Many dogs have been on their way to a MACH and never got it. Bruno Klang is an example, he had two dogs die with 19 double Qs. Angelina would have been the first working breed dog to have a Sch3 and a MACH.

Jonesy'sMom

You did put ATLAS down, and his owners accomplishments.... All she was saying is she was hoping to be #2 to get that. Why is that horrible to bring up in this thread? You turned around and said what makes him so great....

Also, Alwayshadpets is not his breeder by the way... If I am not mistaken he is an Old Drum dog (Not positive though).

Hell, I hope my dog is the first dog to get his MACH3 probably won't happen but why is it so bad to have a goal/dream? How would you like someone to go... What makes your dog so good? Why does your dog even deserve being recognized? Who cares how many double Q's/points your dog has... He's not special... Your post came off pretty rude.

__________________
~Summer~
Summer's Lost Ark Raider AX AXJ NF CGC(ASCA) RS-E JS-E GS-O
Jynx

When individuals bring nothing but drama to the table... Know it's time to let them eat alone. - Unknown

churchill

It was never intended to be rude. The fact is that having goals is great, I have lots of them too. A goal is not a title or an accomplishment though.

greenkouki

If we're just a pet forum why did you advertise the dog available for stud here? Why waste your time, we're all just pet owners? There are absolutely no reputable breeders here or owners accomplished in agility....

I find your comments to alwayshadpets very very rude. She was just trying to share in the owner's excitement. Get a grip! There are plenty of other forums out there if you are actually leaving, so maybe you will find that one just perfect for you.

__________________
*DT Forum Etiquette: Please Read Before Posting*

churchill

This has gotten entirely out of hand. I never advertised Spirit for stud service. I expressed the hope that he would contribute to the gene pool because of his quality and accomplishments. I see nothing wrong with that and nothing against the forum rules.

greenkouki

No you did in fact overtly advertise the dog available for stud but others can't see the original post so arguing it now is a moot point. Closing this thread now. Just know it would be left open were it not for your persistence on the issue.

__________________
*DT Forum Etiquette: Please Read Before Posting*