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Old 02-13-2013, 08:59 AM   #76 (permalink)
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In the past I have posted how my Mastif girlie and Boxer girlie decided to tear each other to pieces.

It took me (alone) 20 nigh on 30 minutes to seperate them and I only managed to do this because they were near collapse from exhaustion and maybe loss of blood.

I kicked, I punched, I threw water in their faces, I pulled at them, I broke a piece of 2x2 over their heads, I tried everything to get them to stop, but failed miserably.
Now I am no weakling, but when 2 dogs in excess of 80lb each are trying to kill each other nothing works until you get a break. As I have said, my break came when they stopped to catch their breath. Then and only then was I able to pull them apart and hold them apart. I don't doubt some of you are wondering why I didnt try and take one away from the fight scene and my answer is this. I knew if I started to drag one away, the other dog free from my grip would see it as her cue to attack again. During the fight I had tried this tactic and saw to my girls cost what it did. So I just stood there, praying my son who I had recalled home from town got there before it began again because I just knew I wouldnt be able to do anything to stop them if it did.

As my son drove into the compound surrounding our home they started the fight once more but luckily he was able to grab the Boxer, throw her literally backwards and hold her off whilst I dragged the Mastif away.

I ended up with 2 very badly injured dogs and only by sheer luck had I avoided injury. Saying that I was covered in blood and truly felt as if I had been beaten with the 2x2 myself.

My two girls lived with each other happy and snug as two peas in a pod. Only minutes before they had been sleeping within 6 foot of each other minding their own business, but something sparked them off and I couldnt do anything about it save sob my heart out as I begged them to stop.

Am I a weakling, am I heck, I am pretty strong and built like a Spanish Mastif on steroids, but when it came to the crunch I was not able to do squat.

Having spoken to my trainer friend about the problem of how to get a pit bull off of your dog her advice was a bite stick. As I have said in the UK you cannot go around armed with weapons which a bite stick unfortunately might be construed as.

If you are able to read dog body language then you may be able to decipher if an attack is a half hearted affair or a full blown 'I am gonna rip you a new one' if it is the latter then diving into a shop and slamming the door on the dog may be an option or using a walking stick to jam into the dogs mouth another, (essentially it is a bite stick but legal to carry).

Would I hit the dog with the stick, if panicked I might, but this truly is not the way to do it, but none of us know how we will react until something like this happens. However, the best advice I once got from someone was to stay calm, panic later.

Pit Bulls are banned in the UK. Pit Bull types and Staffies whilst considered 'Dangerous Dogs' are not and neither are the idiot chavs and gang members who own them. (more's the pity) Dogs such as these should be muzzled in my opinion and in fact I am not sure if the law requires it too. I would have to look it up. However, unless the owner is going to help you, fact is, fighting off a determined dog, no matter what breed it is, is not going to be easy.

Best advice I can give is avoid the areas if at all possible these moronic owners hang out with their dogs. Arm yourself with a walking stick. Practice avoidance techniques.

Truth is if you put yourself between the attacking dog and yours you are likely to get bitten. At the time you don't always think of this, but it is something to think on. Saying that, I have done it myself, we probably all have.

As for how do you defend yourself in the UK.

YOU PRETTY MUCH DON'T, not using a weapon.

The law states minimal force can be used in defence of ones personal safety.

This does not include, shooting, knifing, tazering, macing, batting someone over the head with a torch or the like, because this is not minimal but rather is considered (if injury occurs) to be excessive.

Granted you cannot be jailed for ABH or GBH (Actual Bodily Harm / Grevious Bodily Harm) as these are crimes against the person if you smack a staffie over the head and kill it using a torch. But you may well end up being done for animal cruelty which can involve a jail sentence if the judge feels you used excessive force in order to defend yourself.

Yeah I know, crazy or what.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:32 AM   #77 (permalink)
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I also offered to let him just walk around with that dog's brother outside. It would only take a few minutes of said dog's nicely aimed poking (if you act afraid of the dog, he takes advantage. it is a fun game to poke people, for guys in the crotch, until they move. Them moving=good excuse to bite you.) and intimidation tactics to change his mind about that. And that particular dog does not even mean anything by it, he just thinks it is fun and it is a game to intimidate and dominate people that he senses as weak. I can not imagine what he would do if you actually threatened him.
Okay- this is HILARIOUS!! I may end up getting bitten by him, but I would be laughing and possibly crying at the same time. HILARIOUS!! You need to video this!!!

Thankfully, and squabble my dog has been in, wasn't serious and I was able to easily peel each dog off of each other. Sometimes just yelling works- Saph responds best to verbal correction- when i yell at her she takes notice, of course, these weren't serious fights, just small squabbles with the foster dog.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:26 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Okay- this is HILARIOUS!! I may end up getting bitten by him, but I would be laughing and possibly crying at the same time. HILARIOUS!! You need to video this!!!

Thankfully, and squabble my dog has been in, wasn't serious and I was able to easily peel each dog off of each other. Sometimes just yelling works- Saph responds best to verbal correction- when i yell at her she takes notice, of course, these weren't serious fights, just small squabbles with the foster dog.
LOL I just need a willing participant to get it on video. I've been personally lifted off of the ground by his nose (in my crotch) and it was not the most pleasant experience. I now always have a look out for him near my hind end. His owner always says "if your going to be outside with him, you better get yourself against the wall or fence and don't even think about giggling". He really does take the greatest pleasure in doing this. But good god I would not want to be moving when he gets frisky. It's best to not make him mad, or too happy for that matter.

He's also a dog that if he gets in a fight or even a fence fight with another dog he will redirect on a person. I personally only know 3 people who could handle this type of dog and how people think they could "take" a dog like that blows my mind. You aren't going to "out alpha them" or "alpha roll them". Don't care how strong a man is.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:02 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Yes, this is why I won't risk a playdate with Skoll and Titan or Skoll and Baby even though all dogs involved like other dogs. For one, SSA onto Titan with Skoll and the other (Baby) who likes dogs but will tell them off if she's had enough and I dunno how Skoll will respond to it, I may have grown up able to handle my parents' GSDs but I cannot jump in to separate two dogs trying to kill each other. It's hard enough to drag Baby away when she responds to a fight challenge (as a bait rescue she has no qualms putting a dog in its place with a fight) and my sister carries a break stick and makes me carry it as well when we walk her. Better safe than sorry imo regardless of who started the fight the pit is nearly always blamed if damage occurs and with it's just irresponsible not to carry one knowing her history.

I witnessed a couple fights between a friend's english mastiff and great pyr. Two dogs over 100lbs going for the kill every time they met, was not a pretty sight and was very stressful for everyone in the house including the female pug who would instigate as soon as the two boys were dragged apart. A fight of that magnitude is going to injure whoever reaches in to grab them, a few times both dogs redirected onto whoever pulled them away- usually my friends' parents as we were both high school students at the time but sometimes my friend would come to school with a bite on her hand or arm from pulling the dogs apart by herself and not telling her parents (didn't want them put down). They worked out a crate and rotate but both were smart and could bust out of their crates and open the doors of the rooms they were in- eventually they had to install heavy duty locks on the rooms with the crates to keep them from unlocking the doors just to kill each other. Eventually after a few months of the high-stress environment the mastiff (much older, in the double digits) started to really fall apart and he was euth'd. The pyr returned to his normal sweet temperament and even cuddles their pug- heck he used to cuddle the mastiff just the same until they had their first fight.

You can claim that you'd jump in and pull them apart but truth is you're likely not going to be able to as easily as you think plus it'd be very lucky for you to do this without getting bit. Another friend of mine has a foster pit who is very sweet and her LAB started a fight with this dog (pit was walking by, lab was on couch, lab reached out and nipped her on the face as she passed to guard the couch) and the pit ended up retaliating and escalating to a fullblown fight within seconds. My buddy was able to pull the pit off her dog but her dog kept going after her and in trying to get to the pit ended up biting her a few times on the arm. She was terrified her foster dog would be put down even though the lab started it and bit her because as said in a fight the pit is nearly always the one blamed.

I have used Mocha as the sweet laidback nonconfrontational girl she is to help rehab some fighting pit rescues. The reaction to even the sight of another dog is astounding and it takes a very strong person to even hold them back at that point- dog aggression is a scary thing when you're seeing the true unedited form of it and even with a muzzle I have been afraid Mocha would be harmed if that dog got loose. Now most of the dogs that she's been used for are manageable and simply reactive, due to a combination of medicine, training, and good responsible management by their owners, and Mocha is nonethewiser as she thinks that every dog is her friend (except that damn sheltie, grr) teeth or no teeth.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:16 PM   #80 (permalink)
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We had a neighbor that allowed their chow, pitbull and mutt roam around the neighborhood freely and unsupervised to go potty. After we had an incident of having one of them charge at us, we immediately went out and purchased a stun gun.

The stun gun emits up to 1 million volts, and multi-functions as a powerful flashlight as well. I always carry it on me now on our walks. Haven't used it on a dog yet, but I have used it to deter a curious buck during rut season.
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:57 PM   #81 (permalink)
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i would not care about how much in the zone that dog was ..if he attacks my pup and i have no taser or gun i would strangle him to death if neccessary to save my dog. how could he possibly free himself if i was pinning him down with my body..my arms around his neck?!
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:11 PM   #82 (permalink)
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i would not care about how much in the zone that dog was ..if he attacks my pup and i have no taser or gun i would strangle him to death if neccessary to save my dog. how could he possibly free himself if i was pinning him down with my body..my arms around his neck?!
The detail you're failing to grasp, is that the most likely outcome of your attempted ninja maneuver is getting your own neck tore open. I really hope you take the time to think this over and eliminate it as your go to option before you find yourself in the situation.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:31 PM   #83 (permalink)
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The detail you're failing to grasp, is that the most likely outcome of your attempted ninja maneuver is getting your own neck tore open. I really hope you take the time to think this over and eliminate it as your go to option before you find yourself in the situation.
I officially gave up.

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Old 02-14-2013, 08:08 PM   #84 (permalink)
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I've had dogs threatening to attack Juno, personally I carry mace, and when I'm on my property, a BB gun. I've shot dogs before with it, and I've called the AC on so many.
Just fyi, mace will NOT effect dogs in the same way it does us. ( ie, it wont work. )
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:06 PM   #85 (permalink)
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The detail you're failing to grasp, is that the most likely outcome of your attempted ninja maneuver is getting your own neck tore open. I really hope you take the time to think this over and eliminate it as your go to option before you find yourself in the situation.
I agree with wantsaDobe and RFR.

I will find it difficult to hold Doberman puppies down sometimes. When they don't want their ears posted, they can turn into mega squirmy little things. And these are just babies, not a fully grown aggressive dog intent on bodily harm.

I would want to protect my dogs from and kind of aggressive dog wanting to harm them. But it's not an easy case of 'I'd do this and it would be over'. I've never seen firsthand a truly serious fight like that, and while I think I'd know how to react, I'm inexperienced and just not sure how effective I would be in breaking it up. This thread is an educating read though.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:27 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Do they have leash laws where you live? Are you speaking about a loose dog running up to you? I've always heard if your dog is on leash and a dog (loose) is running to you, you should turn loose of your dog.
What about those SHOCK stick things. Zappers? Not tasers, but there is another name for them, would that break the bite of a Pit?
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:45 AM   #87 (permalink)
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I told my friend about this thread because her mom has two humongous pits, a boy and a girl. They are like 100 pounds each, just massive dogs (and so friendly!)

Anyway, there used to be three of them - 2 boys and a girl. My friend's mom came home from work just the the two boys got into a fight. It took her an hour to get them apart. She was dumping water on them, using a tv tray to try to get in their jaws, everything she could think of. When they finally wore themselves out, she got them apart. One needed $2000 worth of surgery for repairing the wounds, and the other had a broken leg and many open wounds. She couldn't afford both, but was fortunate enough to get ahold of the rescue where she got him, who took him back and fixed him up and rehomed him to a family with no other dogs.

If this is what happened when the trusted owner was there - what do you honestly think would happen if a stranger was trying to break it up?? No amount of "pinning the dog down" is going to work.

(My friends mom learned her lesson and will never have two males again.)
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:08 AM   #88 (permalink)
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I told my friend about this thread because her mom has two humongous pits, a boy and a girl. They are like 100 pounds each, just massive dogs (and so friendly!)

Anyway, there used to be three of them - 2 boys and a girl. My friend's mom came home from work just the the two boys got into a fight. It took her an hour to get them apart. She was dumping water on them, using a tv tray to try to get in their jaws, everything she could think of. When they finally wore themselves out, she got them apart. One needed $2000 worth of surgery for repairing the wounds, and the other had a broken leg and many open wounds. She couldn't afford both, but was fortunate enough to get ahold of the rescue where she got him, who took him back and fixed him up and rehomed him to a family with no other dogs.

If this is what happened when the trusted owner was there - what do you honestly think would happen if a stranger was trying to break it up?? No amount of "pinning the dog down" is going to work.

(My friends mom learned her lesson and will never have two males again.)

There are currently 3 intact male GSDs and my male Doberman where I live. Multiple males is not a problem if you are a competent and dog savvy owner. Rule number 1: Never. Leave. Them. Out. Unsupervised. Together.

At 100 pounds, those aren't really pit bulls, but with bully breeds in general you never trust them not to fight, no matter how sweet they appear. I'm surprised a rescue adopted to a person that didn't keep them separated when not home.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:19 AM   #89 (permalink)
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If I remember right, one of them got out of the crate. She's a good dog owner, but was woefully uneducated when she had the three together. (Probably 4 or 5 years ago now.) Dime and Lainey, the two she still has, are great dogs and personality wise, put me in mind of Cesar Millan's dog, Daddy. Just really well adjusted and calm and sweet. I never met Hoss, the one she had to give back to rescue.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:27 AM   #90 (permalink)
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If I remember right, one of them got out of the crate. She's a good dog owner, but was woefully uneducated when she had the three together. (Probably 4 or 5 years ago now.) Dime and Lainey, the two she still has, are great dogs and personality wise, put me in mind of Cesar Millan's dog, Daddy. Just really well adjusted and calm and sweet. I never met Hoss, the one she had to give back to rescue.
Ah, that's scary. That happened to a friend of mine when she first rescued a pit from the streets. The dog busted out of a crate and nearly killed one of her other dogs. This was a 35-40 lb female, who is the sweetest dog ever with people by the way. I love love love APBT but hate the DA tendencies.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:15 PM   #91 (permalink)
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If one has never seen a TRUE dog fight, I think one might be amazed at just how HARD it is to break it up!! I had a 45 lb GSP attack my 45 lb lab mix. That's not too big, not too hard of a bite and it took me 10-15 minutes to get her off by myself. I finally RIPPED her off and ripped my lab open even more because I thought she would die if I didn't. It's NOT what one might think when it really happens and it's a true attack. When my last Dobe attacked my husband, he threw me like the wind with a turn of his neck...whoosh I went flying across the room. He jumped and landed on hubby's back at least 2 times, possible 3 before hubby got far enough away to land a few quicks to the head with steel toe boots and which probably saved his life.
What in the world is going on at your house....lol!

Can I know more about why your dobie attacked your husband? I am a new dobie owner. My last dog was a pit bull actually that was given to me as a puppy. I was pretty young and didnt know much about dogs when i got my first puppy so i didn't socialized her with other animals other than family members coming over from time to time to visit with thier dogs...never any problems...that was 14 years ago...i prolly didnt even have internet...lol...I am only 35 now so....i will be the first to admit that I knew nothing at 21.

Anyway...she was a great dog with people very loving and I just KNEW she would never harm me or my hubby or anyone who was not trying to hurt us...and she never did. But animals.........well, that was a whole other ballgame.She started having like false pregnancies and she would gather up all the stuffed animals and hide in the closet with them....she wouldn't let you anywhere near her (she would go through this like 2x a year)....after that started happening she WOULD NOT tolerate another animal. But never ever would bite a human...you could tell in her body language and eyes...she passed away after a long wonderful life (except for the socializing part). All her facial hair went grey...awwwww. I did know enough not to let her be unsupervised after the she got in a fight with a neighbor dog on a walk after that we never really went for walks because she would just act like a maniac (my fault, I know NOW) plus, the yard was so big we would just throw the ball a million times and she would run like a wild dog until she didn't want to anymore.

OK...wait my point......is why did your dobie attack your husband? Is that common in dobermans? And is there anything I can do to prevent that. I am teaching my little boy NO BITE for human skin but he really likes to play tug of war. I am scared to let him win for fear of letting him think he dominated me...lol. I am trying to be so prepared to make sure I am doing everything right I think I am going nutty. I spend like 18 hours a day reading and reading and I researched for like 4 months before I got him on the breed but I still feel like I know nothing.

It is all worth it though....as soon as I move in the morning, roll over and look across the room...there they are...inside the crate...those eyes... so engaging, so happy to see me awake....I love him soooo much and want to be the best human I can be for him!!

OK...sorry totally been writing this for like...well, I cant remember how long....i think I am rambling now...lol
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:00 PM   #92 (permalink)
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i don't believe it's common for dobermans to attack their people.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:35 PM   #93 (permalink)
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I read that article on the train home from work the other day, I too wondered what I would do if another dog went for my Remy (picking him up in 8 weeks his going to be 5 months!)

I also live in London where there are a lot of Staffs and even though Pitts are banned some guys still have them trust me, they just say it is a mix. Now here in London you can't carry an obvious weapon like a knife or batt but anything is a weapon if you use it correctly. I too am a huge dog lover and hope I never find myself in this situation but your 2 best options are in my opinion is
1. House keys, don't try land a right hook on a dog in a fight to break it up it isn't going to work unless it is dead still and that still isn't going to do much. If you stuck your house Keyes in there nose/eye or ear you bet any dog would jump a mile high. That would take 10 seconds.

2. A can of Coke or fizzy drink, give that a quick shake and the pressure turns it into a weighted rock that would break bone trust me! One crack on the dogs head(or owner!) and
you will have your problem over. It's the same effect that a duster wold cause minus the 5 year jail term. Like I said I completely understand your concern and I would never let anyone harm my dog, I don't trust everyone to be a responsible as they should so you have to take precautions.

The stick is a good idea just if you had a mastiff or putt grab a puppy you would need more that that, I personally can't see any dog hitting through the pain to keys being stuck in its eye so don't run the risk of carrying a weapon that will land you in trouble! Think outside the box

I will be guarding my little guy like crazy when I get him so i am lad you asked that question, it's good to see everyone's posts and opinions
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:26 PM   #94 (permalink)
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What in the world is going on at your house....lol!

Can I know more about why your dobie attacked your husband? I am a new dobie owner.

----------------------------------------

OK...wait my point......is why did your dobie attack your husband? Is that common in dobermans? And is there anything I can do to prevent that. I am teaching my little boy NO BITE for human skin but he really likes to play tug of war. I am scared to let him win for fear of letting him think he dominated me...lol. I am trying to be so prepared to make sure I am doing everything right I think I am going nutty. I spend like 18 hours a day reading and reading and I researched for like 4 months before I got him on the breed but I still feel like I know nothing.

-------------------------
If I remember correctly, ADARA has talked about this dog before on another thread (don't recall which one, sorry), but evidently he was born with several loose screws, and was not a typical Dobe. Some dogs are just "broken" and nothing can fix them.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:45 AM   #95 (permalink)
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I will find it difficult to hold Doberman puppies down sometimes. When they don't want their ears posted, they can turn into mega squirmy little things.
posting dogs ears is not a serious fight situation though..let them be grown and strong ..whatever..to protect my dog i would wrestle every dog down and choke him out..hope not to get bitten..that off course can happen..but once i got him he can squirm all he wants.
or do you want to tell me he would have a chance to break free again when i am pinning him down ready to choke him out?
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:17 AM   #96 (permalink)
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samallet, i think you underestimate just how quick and resilient dogs can be.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:06 AM   #97 (permalink)
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samallet, i think you underestimate just how quick and resilient dogs can be.
This is the video that brought home to me that no matter how fast you think you are, the dog is quicker. I'm not sure this man even had time to close his eyes:

Police dog bites reporters face - YouTube
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:22 AM   #98 (permalink)
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samallet, i think you underestimate just how quick and resilient dogs can be.
I witnessed an AST attack a weim puppy at a dog park. Two grown men could not pry the dog off. They were kicking and trying to choke the dog. It was wagging its tail.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:55 AM   #99 (permalink)
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If I remember correctly, ADARA has talked about this dog before on another thread (don't recall which one, sorry), but evidently he was born with several loose screws, and was not a typical Dobe. Some dogs are just "broken" and nothing can fix them.
Good to know...cuz that freaked me out a little bit....my boy better not even think about it! I am pretty sure he is fully aware that Daddy is the Alpha at this house....lol...he doesnt even have to do anything he just reaks ALPHA!!...I have to work for my respect! I am the keeper of the treats so that goes a long way...hehehe
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:56 AM   #100 (permalink)
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Actually, yes, the dog you're pinning can break free and get you. Or your dog could come in and have a go at the dog you're pinning, and hey, you're in the way and now you really have problems. Two dogs in fight mode will not care if their owner is in the way. It's probably been posted in this thread already, but if you haven't read it, check out Leerburg's article on how to break up a dog fight. They sum it up pretty well.

"Dog fights are a very dangerous thing to try and break up alone. You should never rush in and try and grab the dogs to pull them apart. They are in high "fight drive" and are not thinking clearly when fighting. If someone grabs them they will bite without even thinking about who or what they are biting. This is how your loving pet can dog bite the living crap out of you in about a second and a half.

In reality it probably doesn't even know it's biting you. I compare it to a bar fight. If a person comes up behind 2 guys fighting and just reaches out and grabs the shoulder of one of the combatants most of the time the fighter is going to turn and throw a punch without even looking at who or what he is hitting. This is because his adrenaline in pumping and he is in "fight drive"."

Dogs are fast. They'll react to a touch in a dog fight with a bite, and will nail you before you have a chance to wrestle any dog to the ground. It took three people to hold my Doberman so we could take stitches out, and that was in a highly controlled setting at the vets, with people he knew and trusted. He wasn't in fight mode and his adrenaline wasn't up.

Griffin is the same dog that I have muzzled if there's a test that requires him to be placed on his side or back. That's because he's so darn fast, if the vet went to pin him, he'd bite the crap out of her because he does not want to be pinned. I know that, and I'm up front about it. My vet completely understands too, that's not unusual for a lot of dogs to not tolerate being pinned by someone they don't know.

Your best bet if your dog is being attacked is to have a second person there and to break up the fight properly. The hardest part is keeping yourself calm, especially when your dog is the one being attacked. I've had to break up a fight solo, and that sucked. I accomplished it by cutting Griffin loose, because I knew he'd run home as soon as I got the other dog off of him. The second dog, I got by the back legs and swung her off. She wasn't clamped on, which was fortunate. And once Griffin took off, she quit fighting me.

I was seriously lucky though. If Griffin had decided to fight, it would've been a lot worse. I don't care to think about what would have happened if it had been my first Dobe Logan instead of Griffin. He wanted to kill other dogs, and let me tell you, he'd blow me off in a second if he saw another dog.

I know your mind is probably made up about pinning an attacking dog, and nothing we write is going to change it. But seriously, at least consider it. There's a lot of experience on this forum and a lot of folks, myself included, have experience in dealing with dogs who are dog aggressive and reactive. We know what we're talking about and we'd rather not see someone get put in the hospital because they thought they were faster or stronger than a dog in full fight mode.
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